How many drops?

[Swinging bee]

From my vantage point at the dj booth I see all styles of MJ danced by all sorts of people.
Every now and then I see some men performing drop, after drop, after drop, interspersed by the odd move or two. The look on his partners face at the time says it all. I see him throughout the evening carrying on oblivious to the ladies concern chin puffed out with pride, proud of his own expertise ....you have all seen them haven't you! looking everywhere except at his partner to see who is watching.
My question is ......'How many drops make a really good dance experience?' and what can you do to regulate them without putting the "offender" off dancing for ever....(BE KIND)

[Ballroom queen]

From my vantage point at the dj booth I see all styles of MJ danced by all sorts of people.
Every now and then I see some men performing drop, after drop, after drop, interspersed by the odd move or two. The look on his partners face at the time says it all. I see him throughout the evening carrying on oblivious to the ladies concern chin puffed out with pride, proud of his own expertise ....you have all seen them haven't you! looking everywhere except at his partner to see who is watching.
My question is ......'How many drops make a really good dance experience?' and what can you do to regulate them without putting the "offender" off dancing for ever....(BE KIND)

a couple?? - I danced with someone like this on Tuesday - he did a few drops, each time I resisted and just did a little dip, carrying all my own weight - I have bad knees and am nervous of drops with guys I don't know. He seemed to be leading me into them again - as if I was doing it wrong, but I kept on resisting. I considered saying I don't like doing drops with guys I don't know - but didn't. I probably should have done. Not helped by later dancing with two lovely guys that I do know who did drops and I did drop with. (was going to type "go down," but I don't mean that!!!) So people see me doing drops with others and then not with them.

So, what do others think?

Also, not really helped when these steps are taught at regular ceroc venues, I think the teachers should make more of a thing of telling the guys to ask "do you do drops?", or "would you like to do drops with me?"

[Simon r]

From my vantage point at the dj booth I see all styles of MJ danced by all sorts of people.
Every now and then I see some men performing drop, after drop, after drop, interspersed by the odd move or two. The look on his partners face at the time says it all. I see him throughout the evening carrying on oblivious to the ladies concern chin puffed out with pride, proud of his own expertise ....you have all seen them haven't you! looking everywhere except at his partner to see who is watching.
My question is ......'How many drops make a really good dance experience?' and what can you do to regulate them without putting the "offender" off dancing for ever....(BE KIND)

Worse than this i have seen a growing trend for intermediate dancers grabbing a beginner lady on her first or second night and then start dropping the lady ...
After grabbing the offenders afterwards the answer I had was well I did ask her if she did drops.........
Twat.......
Speaking to Sally last night she said that she had approached repeat offenders but was given whatever reply....
Now these are the real prats that we as a group need to deal with ...
At workshops i drum repeatedly in to the men that they should only ever perform drops in a safe manner with a willing partner who has also been instructed in the correct method to support there own weight.
I issue each student with rules and regs and warn them if I see them performing drops in an unsafe area or on un prepared dancers i will ban them from further workshops ..
This seems to work in our area ..
My worst experience seems to be central London ..
So far had to step in twice fo a newbie girl being thrown around..
It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has attended a workshop in London and what they were told ..

Simon

[tsh]

I had a lady ask me to lead some drops with her last night, because she didn't know any! I did point out that this maybe wasn't a very sensible plan!

Sean

[Gus]

My worst experience seems to be central London ..
So far had to step in twice fo a newbie girl being thrown around..
It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has attended a workshop in London and what they were told ..

Have to agree. I was at a Central London Ceroc venue a few weeks back seing a real example of such behaviour .... the problem was that the offender was wearing a Taxi Dancer T-shirt What chance then that the rest of the guys there know what to do! [If someone from Ceroc wants to PM me I can tell them where and who.]

[MartinHarper]

Every now and then I see some men performing drop, after drop, after drop, interspersed by the odd move or two.

I've seen that style. It's not my preference, but it's popular enough, with both guys and gals. It seems to work well for songs like "straight to number one". Obviously both dancers need the right level of technique to pull it off.

looking everywhere except at his partner to see who is watching.

I'm quite capable of "showing off" and paying no attention to my partner, without doing any drops at all. To my mind, it's a seperate issue. At least with drops, the woman is at least involved as ballast.

How many drops make a really good dance experience?

The number of drops (0) doesn't make the dance experience, for me.

[CJ]

From my vantage point at the dj booth I see all styles of MJ danced by all sorts of people.
Every now and then I see some men performing drop, after drop, after drop, interspersed by the odd move or two. The look on his partners face at the time says it all. I see him throughout the evening carrying on oblivious to the ladies concern chin puffed out with pride, proud of his own expertise ....you have all seen them haven't you! looking everywhere except at his partner to see who is watching.
My question is ......'How many drops make a really good dance experience?' and what can you do to regulate them without putting the "offender" off dancing for ever....(BE KIND)

And there was me thinking it had been a night in Gla!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rhythm King]

The ISH was packed on Tuesday and people were doing lifts and drops all over the place. Thing is, some of them were taught during the intermediate class. Whilst the teaching may be correct in technique, the majority of people just don't have the floorcraft, or spatial awareness (or bl**ding common sense) to know when and where it's safe to do these. I admit I did some gentle leans, when I was in a safe area (ie, the corner by the stage), I even showed someone (a regular & trusted partner) a supported drop move I had seen elsewhere (thanks Chef ). But I did that outside the dancing area, away from other people and with a spotter and helpful advice from someone else, who knew the mechanics of the move from ballroom and whose technical knowledge I hold in the highest esteem.
Sooner or later, there will be an accident and the knee-jerk reaction will probably be to ban all such moves outside of showcase, whereas a little self-regulation (and self-restraint) now, would be a much better solution.

R-K

[Chef]

Let us face it. Drops are dangerous to both parties (and some bystanders) if done without expertise or thought. Then again I have been kicked, barged, stamped on by people walking backwards onto the floor even though I had been dancing in the same place for 2 minutes. I have been knocked to the ground by women that spin off balance and career across the dance floor. I have had flesh ripped from my arms and hands by rings, watches and bangles. I have even been stabbed in the shoulders, hands and neck by fingernails. Dance is definately not a "no risk" activity. But risks can be mimimised. This is my point.

I don't feel it is the number of drops that are done that is important rather than the skill with which they are done. I will admit that I have two personal hates with drops and they are

a) when guys put drops in as point in the music where they just don't fit.It makes me shudder when I see a guy is going through a fast rock and roll track and - wham - throws the woman into a fast drop that she clearly has no reason to expect in that place (nowhere near a break for instance).

b) Where the woman is lowered to near the floor and then waggled up and down in an attempt to see how much of this she can take before she gets whiplash.

So IF (work with this for a while) it is a matter of the skill levels of the practioners how can this be raised to a sufficient level?

Lounge Lizard has offered in the past to give free lessons on safety in drops to any organiser that contacts him. There are workshops to go on.

There are just some people that are just as thick as two short planks and don't seem to be able to learn anything no matter how well you teach them. So if they have been around a while and they are rubbish in their normal dancing the chances are they are going to be rubbish in drops as well. So if your partner is complete rubbish for the first 30 seconds a quick yell of "no drops" may head off a painful experience.

The problem with drops is that guys want to do them and ladies like to do them (when done well). I have urged people in the past to try and form a working alliance between partners purely for the sake of having someone to work through these things carefully and thoughtfully off of the dance floor where you can have crash mats or cushions.

Guess what? After three months of trying, all of these people have come back and told me that they can't find someone who will work with them. It is like people only want to have excellent dance partners fully functioning and straight out of the packet. Very few people are interested in forming dance partnerships to develop each other.

We have the same problem in the medicines and drugs industry. Everybody wants safe and effective drugs to cure their sick children. They want the drugs to have been tested and proved to be safe in children. Curiously they won't volunteer their child for a testing program. Oh know, all the dangerous and hard work has to be done on someone else children. That is why there are almost no drugs licensed for use in children.

BTW Swinging Bee - If you are looking down at your partner you are probably straining your back and dripping sweat on her. Did I mentionthat I love dancing to your DJ sets.

[Lory]

Upto a maximum of three, even if it's with someone I know, trust and like doing them with!

Too many hurt my knees and ruin the impact anyway!

[DavidB]

Maybe 4 or 5.

Per year.

[Clive Long]

Maybe 4 or 5.

Per year.

Is that the number of times you liked to be dropped Mr. B?

CRL

[Little Em]

a couple of drops in time to the music is great.


but if the lean or drop involves me having to have my hand round the guys neck if he is all drippingly sweaty.............ewwwwwwwwwwww


Em x

[Sparkles]

Is that the number of times you liked to be dropped Mr. B?

Oooh! Me! Me! I wanna try!

...actually, joking aside, it would be fun to try leading DavidB - and it'd give poor Lily a rest from my houndings too

[Simon r]

Let us face it. Drops are dangerous to both parties (and some bystanders) if done without expertise or thought. Then again I have been kicked, barged, stamped on by people walking backwards onto the floor even though I had been dancing in the same place for 2 minutes. I have been knocked to the ground by women that spin off balance and career across the dance floor. I have had flesh ripped from my arms and hands by rings, watches and bangles. I have even been stabbed in the shoulders, hands and neck by fingernails. Dance is definately not a "no risk" activity. But risks can be mimimised. This is my point.

I don't feel it is the number of drops that are done that is important rather than the skill with which they are done. I will admit that I have two personal hates with drops and they are

a) when guys put drops in as point in the music where they just don't fit.It makes me shudder when I see a guy is going through a fast rock and roll track and - wham - throws the woman into a fast drop that she clearly has no reason to expect in that place (nowhere near a break for instance).

b) Where the woman is lowered to near the floor and then waggled up and down in an attempt to see how much of this she can take before she gets whiplash.

So IF (work with this for a while) it is a matter of the skill levels of the practioners how can this be raised to a sufficient level?

Lounge Lizard has offered in the past to give free lessons on safety in drops to any organiser that contacts him. There are workshops to go on.

There are just some people that are just as thick as two short planks and don't seem to be able to learn anything no matter how well you teach them. So if they have been around a while and they are rubbish in their normal dancing the chances are they are going to be rubbish in drops as well. So if your partner is complete rubbish for the first 30 seconds a quick yell of "no drops" may head off a painful experience.

The problem with drops is that guys want to do them and ladies like to do them (when done well).

But not really my point .....
What I really have a problem with is newbie ladies being thrown around the dance floor it scares the **** out of them.
We want to promote a safe environment for people to learn at there own speed which will encourage ladies and gents to return.
Asking a newbie " would you mind doing drops" she would not have a clue what you are talking about and we are not talking about beginner or new intermediate. This is aimed at intermediate men who are well aware of there own capabilities.
Floorcraft as well (again this seems to be really bad in London) iknow we have had this as a thread before, but the standard is lower than i have ever seen before.

[DavidB]

it would be fun to try leading DavidB

I'm unleadable. Ask Franck

[Minnie M]

Personally, I prefer lifts, less dangerous than the drops

[El Salsero Gringo]

Personally, I prefer lifts, less dangerous than the drops

Don't worry - it's only the very last bit that hurts.

[Sparkles]

I'm unleadable. Ask Franck

Chicken!

[Zebra Woman]

No more than 15 - 20 per dance for me please

And ONLY IF THERE IS SPACE.