'Move' requests

[David Bailey]

If we men remembered them all and incorporated them into our routines, it would be pretty wonderful (especially for our partners!).

I suspect turning into Evil Move Monsters would not be wonderful for all our partners - especially the world-famous "27 count triple hatchback secret move columbiun headchopper hanger frozen marguerita with a slice of lemon and an olive combo." move...

Ladies in particular get a bad deal where they have paid their money for a class or weekend workshop, learned the moves perfectly

Do ladies (followers) learn moves at workshops? Why?

I'd have thought ladies (followers) would want style and following techniques, not to learn moves. Hell, I'm not even sure if workshops should teach moves to leaders, but I dunno, I've never done a workshop, ( )

So yes, JoC, bring on the requests for particular moves - you've paid your money, so shape the dance experience so you get the most out of it!

Nah, I'm still in the Andreas Control Freak Camp on this one - providing the creativity to shape the dance experience is to me mainly the lead's job.

[John S]

the world-famous "27 count triple hatchback secret move columbiun headchopper hanger frozen marguerita with a slice of lemon and an olive combo." move...

Point taken, especially with more complex moves - however, simple ones like you describe above should be no problem to the average dancer.

Do ladies (followers) learn moves at workshops? Why? .

Same reason as they learn moves in a Ceroc class, I guess, so they can follow them properly when they're led properly!

Nah, I'm still in the Andreas Control Freak Camp on this one - providing the creativity to shape the dance experience is to me mainly the lead's job.

Ceroc may be a male-led dance, but it sure as hell has to be a partner dance to get the full range of style and creativity!

[Lou]

A couple of women today said that some move in the intermediate class was "vile", for example, and that's useful info. (it may only have been vile the way I did, to be fair).

Nope. I never did that particular move with you, and it was definitely vile with most other men. (There were only two with whom it actually worked). I'd assume that most men wouldn't want to include it anyway - so I wouldn't not request it (if you know what I mean by that double negative).

(btw.. The Vile Move: start with a left over right crossed double hand hold. Wrap the lady in by turning her a fair few times. Try not to wrench her arm out of her socket as you "encourage" her to sit on your knee. Unwrap to taste).

[Gadget]

Maybe it would help if each week one of the intermediate class moves were to be carried over to the next week's routine, as in the beginners' class?

Lorna does this most weeks. The move chosen is done by a show of hands. Good because it gives the teacher a chance to add some styling or additional lead/follow tips to the move. Sort of pants if you don't like the choice, but that's democracy for you. [/QUOTE]

[David Bailey]

(btw.. The Vile Move: start with a left over right crossed double hand hold. Wrap the lady in by turning her a fair few times.

Errr, surely you can only turn once, with a double-handed hold?

[Lou]

Errr, surely you can only turn once, with a double-handed hold?

Actually, it was practically one and a half, in order to get the lady into the correct lock position - so that we're* trapped into having to sit on the chap's knee.

(*I was a woman last night, obviously).

[Andreas]

I won't warp the entire dance style trying to cram it in. If the follower likes the move, perhaps she should become a leader and lead it...

I should give you some more rep for that one but need to give ti to others first

[David Bailey]

Actually, it was practically one and a half, in order to get the lady into the correct lock position - so that we're* trapped into having to sit on the chap's knee.

I get it - ooer, The Vile Move sounds like an excellent description.

Almost as bad as the Archie Spin...

[Zebra Woman]

Oh that move?!

This has just reminded me of my second from worst ever dancing accident.

I was being led into the vile move....

I could see the knee.

I didn't know whether I was expected to sit astride it (treble vile ) or sit sideways like a secretary taking notes sitting on the side of a desk, or walk around the man while he knelt on the floor.

I hesitated...then I made a choice (astride)

At that point my lead overbalanced backwards so he was lying flat on the floor.

Too late, by then I had already assumed the 'astride' position on top of him.

Luckily the man wasn't hurt and had VVGSOH

Oh, how we 'improvised'

Er.... I mean. Oh, how we laughed

[killingtime]

I'd certainly be ok with a woman asking if I could fit in a certain move. Often I'll do the same move a few times in a dance just because I want to try and perfect that move. I fully understand my partner might also want to do just the same and work on a move for whatever reason (maybe they just like it ).

I mean I do this with people who have less moves under their belts than I do anyway (I've just really started intermediate sessions so I'm not a seasoned dancer by any means) where we go over the beginners moves that lesson and maybe branch from there.

I'd prefer if she told me at the start rather than hollering out names part way through .

[bigdjiver]

The last few requests I have had have been for "pulling through the legs" and moves involving turning the lady upside down. These are moves I am loath to request and introduce in freestyle because I think the ladies might hate them. I am wondering if I should try them more often. Unfortunately there are to few ladies that will say that they do not like a particular move, or that they would like to try a more adventurous one.

[JoC]

It's no use, I tried to resist...

But I won't warp the entire dance style trying to cram it in.

Ya big drama queen!!! And same to Andreas for agreeing.

If the follower likes the move, perhaps she should become a leader and lead it...

All in good time my friend, with 3 lessons as lead under my belt I'll be snapping at your heels in no time.

So, I have another thing added to my list for if I ever have the pleasure of a dance, for winding up, or avoiding purposes depending on whether I'm feeling or . Hat of course being number one.

[David Bailey]

It's no use, I tried to resist...

Give in to temptation, I always do.

Ya big drama queen!!! And same to Andreas for agreeing.

Technically, I was agreeing with Andreas, but yes, we're both pretty precious

with 3 lessons as lead under my belt I'll be snapping at your heels in no time.

That's a new move on me...

[Andreas]

Technically, I was agreeing with Andreas, but yes, we're both pretty precious

Thank you so much! And I already thought only my mother was able to recognise my actual value.

[Purple Sparkler]

I don't ask for moves from partners, and just hope in the cases of people I dance with a lot that they'll include ones I especially like when I'm dancing with them. I'm not usually disappointed. Just enjoy the dance for what it is, and don't worry about particular moves.

As for the moves done in class, one particular forumite (you know who you are) has told me before that I'm the only one who will put up with him practicing the moves from the lesson. I never mind practicing if he wants to, I just enjoy the dance. The same would be true of any partner, though obviously I'd get a bit bored if the entire freestyle was taken up with practicing moves from the class.

Though I would like to point out to DavidJames that the more complex (and thus more interesting) intermediate moves- and most of the LESS complex ones- still require the follower to know what the hell they're doing. This is why beginner women don't do the advanced class, if you see what I mean.
It's also why you have to concentrate when dancing with Rhythm King. He's not someone you can anticipate.

[David Bailey]

Though I would like to point out to DavidJames that the more complex (and thus more interesting) intermediate moves- and most of the LESS complex ones- still require the follower to know what the hell they're doing. This is why beginner women don't do the advanced class, if you see what I mean.

Totally - following is a definite and distinct skill, which IMO Ceroc don't teach as much as they should. Passive following doesn't mean not concentrating / being a good follower. I'd expand that phrase, in fact, to say that all moves are improved by better following skills, complex or otherwise.

The follower-lead relationship gets more complex the more you think about it, it's not at all a simple case of Do What The Leader Tells You, and I don't think either I or Andreas were saying that.

But to me there's definitely more "overall creativity" in the leader role, in terms of interpreting the flow of the whole dance - invitationally, sure, but still interpreting. To my mind, follower skills are more at the "tactical" level of interpreting each invitation as it comes along.

Sorry, I know this all sounds very precious and control-freaky, but I can't think of another easy way to describe the process.

It's also why you have to concentrate when dancing with Rhythm King. He's not someone you can anticipate.

for RK, that's the way it should be. Straightjackets, that's the way to go...

[JoC]

Do ladies (followers) learn moves at workshops? Why?
I'd have thought ladies (followers) would want style and following techniques, not to learn moves.

Was PS's reply to this bit?
Agree though that a lot of the learning for a follower is maybe more accurately described as interpretation of lead signals. But then you could perhaps describe a lead/follow 'unit' as a move, which means the ladies are learning moves, couldn't you? Or is a 'move' the whole shimmy, shebang, swizzle and return added together... oh dear I've jumped in now

[David Bailey]

Was PS's reply to this bit?
Agree though that a lot of the learning for a follower is maybe more accurately described as interpretation of lead signals. But then you could perhaps describe a lead/follow 'unit' as a move, which means the ladies are learning moves, couldn't you? Or is a 'move' the whole shimmy, shebang, swizzle and return added together... oh dear I've jumped in now

Ooh, "shimmy, shebang, swizzle and return", sounds like a great move to me!

My main point, slightly tongue-in-cheek, was that if a follower has to learn a signal to do a move, or even has to learn a move, I'm not that impressed with that move. Followers should learn to follow, leads should learn to lead.

David "Master Of The Obvious Universe" they call me...

[JoC]

Ooh, "shimmy, shebang, swizzle and return", sounds like a great move to me!

Does that mean I've just successfully manipulated you into learning a move that I would like you to do with me?

[David Bailey]

Does that mean I've just successfully manipulated you into learning a move that I would like you to do with me?

Err... dunno, have you?

I thnk "wibble" is the appropriate answer again.