The next Big Thing?

[Gus]

Was looking round the dancefloor last night and idly wondering what the next 'Big Thing' (innovation in Modern Jive) is going to be. In 1999 Nigel and Nina brought Blues to the forefront (often copied, never equalled). Around 2001 Viktor and Lydia brought salsa/jive fusion to the main stage. This was followed by Amir with Jango (2004?).

So what now? WCS seems to have a bit of a following but given its relative complexity I'm not sure if its going to make much of an impression. Certainly, in the provinces it doesn't seem to have made much of an impact. Is 2005 the year where WCS takes off or is there something else lurking in the shadows?

[Minnie M]

There are very few MJ dancers (leads & follows) who can handly very fast MJ well, so..... I think MJ needs a very fast alternative - like Lindy has Balboa. Maybe someone could join it together and call it BoaJive

[Tiggerbabe]

BoaJive

Now, why does that conjour up a picture of feathers flying in all directions?

[jockey]

Maybe a blend of modern jive and WCS: already a number of progressive dancers have learnt to dance their modern jive in a slot (benefitting from the highly slotted teaching of Nigel and Nina, which itself has provided a platform for the recent surge of interest in WCS) and , furthermore, many of the better ladies have shown a leaning towards doing their own thing (wiggles, ocho style footwork) as the man leaves them out there to "play" (the lead taking a back seat).
I had a dance with a jiver last night at Bookham who has gone over to WCS very effectively and it was great - She did loads of stylish footwork and I threw in my trademark slides , fast lead spins and slotted drops (ballroon drop, John Brett special etc) and shimmies. What WCS lacks (unless you are a world champions!) are big arm moves and drops but its easy to put them in - we dont have to be straightjacketed into what we can do - and you have the best of both worlds (maybe).
I do think WCS looks pretty good providing it is danced "into the floor" and not bounced in trainers but I suspect that it is more satisfying to the dancers themselves (secure in the knowledge that they are being pretty darned fashionable ) than spectacular to watch. And then there is the problem for WCS afficionados which I foresee : where are they going to compete? California?

[Minnie M]

Now, why does that conjour up a picture of feathers flying in all directions?

couldn't really call it BalJive or JiveBal or the other 'fast lindy' dance is the Shag - hate to think what you could conjure up with that one (well they do call it dirty dancing or 3min sex on the dance floor)

BTW the mix of jive & WCS is already there as many MJ dancers are dancing in a slot and they are being taught to dance in a slot, great idea IMO might help being bashed in the face etc.

[Lynn]

Maybe a blend of modern jive and WCS: already a number of progressive dancers have learnt to dance their modern jive in a slot (benefitting from the highly slotted teaching of Nigel and Nina, which itself has provided a platform for the recent surge of interest in WCS) and , furthermore, many of the better ladies have shown a leaning towards doing their own thing (wiggles, ocho style footwork) as the man leaves them out there to "play" (the lead taking a back seat).

OK, I have only done one class WCS, am not one of the 'better ladies' and am not even living in a country with an active MJ scene, so can't comment on the next 'big thing' - but have to say that I love dancing in a slot and being allowed to play - esp to the right sort of music. So if this is a direction MJ is heading in, I would be happy!

[Gus]

but have to say that I love dancing in a slot and being allowed to play - esp to the right sort of music. So if this is a direction MJ is heading in, I would be happy!

Bit interested with the link on this thread between 'ladies playing' and WCS. My recollection was that it was Nina (through Blues) then Lydia who brought in the 'ladies doing it for themsleves' movement. As for the slot dancing, I agree that WCS does accentuate this but many of the better dancers have been using passing moves for a long time. My personal view was that the WCS footwork allowed dnacers more expression to slower tracks. I've watched Messr Sheepman do this very effectively and just wish my feet could do what these WCS animlas make loom so easy

Re the 'faster jive', I seem to remember a few instructors over the years trying to teach Turbo-Jive ... but I've not seen anyone make this effective yet .. most of the ones I've seen seem to be lessons in beginner Lindy.

[Minnie M]

Re the 'faster jive', I seem to remember a few instructors over the years trying to teach Turbo-Jive ... but I've not seen anyone make this effective yet .. most of the ones I've seen seem to be lessons in beginner Lindy.

Balboa is a close-up jive, with the ocassional jive move, allows you time to get your breath back but still look like you are dancing. Zydeco is similar to this too, personally a good teacher could combine the two quite easy (I think )
check out :-
http://www.allbalboa.com/videos.htm

[Feelingpink]

OK, I have only done one class WCS, am not one of the 'better ladies' and am not even living in a country with an active MJ scene, so can't comment on the next 'big thing' - but have to say that I love dancing in a slot and being allowed to play - esp to the right sort of music. So if this is a direction MJ is heading in, I would be happy!

I don't mind whether or not I'm dancing in a slot, but love being allowed to play ... and WCS has a woman's formal signal to the guy that they are playing ... and signalling when they are finished ('yes, you can take back the lead now') ... sure DavidB could explain this better.

So I wonder if the next big thing is going to be WCS along with two-step or whatever it was that Lee and Cat were demonstrating at the T-Jive on Sunday that looked fantastic and balletic. The reason might not be just the 'play' aspect of things, but because of the 'wow' showcases that blow the minds of MJers are those in WCS or similar dance forms ... and they're often young (or young at heart).

[Minnie M]

I love WCS, having learnt it about 5 years ago, I am still on the same level, just wish I could get better

Dance 'playing' love it, but you don't need WCS to be able to play, most of the competant dancers allow the followers to play however it is the music that prompts you to play more than the dance and WCS type music is more prone to this

[David Bailey]

I think this is a bit of a simplistic discussion, based on a somewhat broad assumption. Firstly, I don't know for sure if MJ has "fashions", all at once - it's such a big and diverse environment.

One could definitely make the case for salsa, it obviously has global trends and styles and developments (I'm still hanging around waiting for Cuban to come back into style, bit like hanging onto my flares really ). But MJ, I'm not sure.

Once could make a similar case for "The next big thing" being any of the following, in no particular order:
- Ballroom dancing moves in general (driven by Beeb programmes, or, locally, nosequins etc.)
- Tango, or WCS / two-step (I understand this is a dance, that's all I know about it), as described
- Salsa fusion - I believe there's mileage in that
- "Australian style" - don't ask me, but if I had to guess, it'd be "lots and lots of moves in a routine"
- your particular favourite.

So not only do I not think there's a Next Big Thing, I'm not convinced there have been Previous Big Things...

[Gus]

So not only do I not think there's a Next Big Thing, I'm not convinced there have been Previous Big Things...

Ahem ... WHERE have you been hiding?

I remember the HUGE changes broughtyabout by the introduction of Blues, Salsa fusion and Jango ...... oh, I forgot ... do you do only Ceroc(tm)?

[David Bailey]

Ahem ... WHERE have you been hiding?

London. I don't get out much...

I remember the HUGE changes broughtyabout by the introduction of Blues, Salsa fusion and Jango

I'm sure they were, but this is all relative.

We experience change in a personal manner, based on our own viewpoints and warped by our own recollections (hence I still believe Kate Bush was a great musical talent )

I'm only a humble dancer, and my viewpoint is that of a consumer rather than a producer. You may well have a point, if you're considering it from a teaching / academic point of view - which may well filter down to the feet-on-the-floor in due course.

And therefore, possibly both viewpoints are correct in their own context.

For example, if I look hard, certainly I can see that more of my partners now can more easily follow a salsa-type lead from me than they could, say, ten or even five years ago. So that could be from salsa-move teaching; but then, it could also be because I'd hope I'm a better lead than I was then. So I'm not sure how to isolate that out.

Similarly, I believe more followers I dance with are more confident, if allowed, to take the lead and play with footwork / shines than they were a few years ago. But again, that could be because I'm more relaxed about allowing this taking-of-lead, rather than people being taught more of that style.

Or, it could be because I'm mainly dancing with different people, or that the people I dance with have themselves experimented with different styles, and have themselves improved in their own particular directions, or that the general standard of my partners has improved.

Given these wide range of factors, isolating single individual influences on such a large, diverse and adaptable dance form is difficult, at least from my consumer's point of view. However, as I said, it may be easier to discern trends from the producer's point of view.

...... oh, I forgot ... do you do only Ceroc(tm)?

Well, I started in ballroom, moved to Ceroc (I'm sure you remember ), moved to salsa, messed with a bit of tango etc. Now, I dunno what I do really, I make it up most of the time

It works for me. Except when dancing to Swing City or Rockin' Robin of course

[cerocmetro]

Interesting that you should have brought this up just when we are about to release a new concept.

We have been working on a fusion of Kick boxing and Tango. It involves a lot of jumping up and down and we use "pneumatic tunes" utilising the delicate harmonies of a sledge hammer on concrete. We are calling it "Kango"

We have also started a lot of Blues into Tango, "Bango"

and of course Ceroc fused with Rhumba, Aerobics and Pole dancing. Struggling with a name for that one

Adam

[Minnie M]

Interesting that you should have brought this up just when we are about to release a new concept.

We have been working on a fusion of Kick boxing and Tango. It involves a lot of jumping up and down and we use "pneumatic tunes" utilising the delicate harmonies of a sledge hammer on concrete. We are calling it "Kango"

We have also started a lot of Blues into Tango, "Bango"

and of course Ceroc fused with Rhumba, Aerobics and Pole dancing. Struggling with a name for that one

Adam

Welcome back to England & posting Adam and stirring up trouble again

[Trousers]

I love WCS, having learnt it about 5 years ago, I am still on the same level, just wish I could get better

I've seen you lots of times in the 100Club and you always seemed pretty able to me Minnie. LSDS monday nights were cool even for LindyLess MJ'ers like my self. Some cracking bands down there too - as you will know.

I probably know 8 swing moves learnt at Nicks Old Walcontonians place. But still they suffice if you wanna grab a girl and say 'Do you Swing?' Some of the looks I have had were priceless.
However the music that is most comfortable to Swing or Lindy to tends more toward he 40's stuff and that isn't so main stream. Personally I like it - well some of it.
But getting back to your earlier point Fast MJ - Rock n Roll in my book -
I LOVE IT
Lets do more of that!

[David Bailey]

Interesting that you should have brought this up just when we are about to release a new concept. ...
We have also started a lot of Blues into Tango, "Bango"

You clearly have a dance-y espionage situation to handle.

Let's hope no-one's caught wind of the names for the upcoming fusions of Big apple/tango and Bolero/tango, or the whole Cunning Plan will be undone...

[Minnie M]

..........at Nicks Old Walcontonians place....

That is Nick Kirby of Jive Connection (he is also an ocassionaly forum poster - keeping his forum name secret )

He has a brilliant night on a Wednesday at Kingston Dance Studio - I love the 40's swing style - roll on Rhythm Riot (the weekend after Franco's at Camber)

Talking about Rhythm Riot, that is a great place for MJers who want something a little different, the music is R & B / R 'n' R there are lots of French dancers who MJers can easily dance with, as the moves are the same (French Jive and all that) even if you can't speak to them

So maybe that is another direction, dancing MJ to ALL styles of dance i.e. adapting current dance moves to match

[Andy McGregor]

I think the next big thing should be dancing modern jive really well. Learning the dance properly with a nice grounding in decent technique. This would not involve trying to be any other dance but modern jive. And the most important way, IMHO, for people to get this dance is to be given individual feedback by a dance teacher or well trained taxi dancer. This means that classes should be smaller, not larger, and people should spend time with their actual students going over how to get it right and how they're getting it wrong.

After the thread on "Dancing DJs" we could, perhaps, have one on "MJ teachers who don't dance with their students" because that is what I think's the root cause of a great deal of the bad dancing I see out there

[Minnie M]

There are very few MJ dancers (leads & follows) who can handly very fast MJ well, so..... I think MJ needs a very fast alternative - like Lindy has Balboa. Maybe someone could join it together and call it BoaJive

I think some forumites have misread my above post.

You don't need to learn Lindy to dance to fast music, unless you want to learn lindy because you like the lindy style. Even some Lindy dancers don't like dancing to fast music, that is why they dance BALBOA. Personally I am not keen on Balboa as it is to UCP for me, I don't like blues dancing for the same reason. However, I am definitely in the minority, and for that reason I brought this option up.
(think I have overdone it a bit too - sorry folks, but I think I have confused some people, and being a girlie I HAVE to explain myself )