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Thread: Dance "Immigration"

  1. #21
    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    If a big group of better (?) dancers 'takes over' a place it can be very intimidating to the locals. And people should be aware of it.
    Agree, I wasn't making myself very clear. But my comment below about why shouldn't a group go out and have fun stands - just maybe not too frequently at the same venue


    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    As I said in an earlier post, it is nothing to worry too much about but certainly something to be aware of.
    Agree there too, sorry, missed that bit somehow

    And sorry to change the order of your post, but here's the argumentative bit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    That is a matter of how you look at it. I would not call it paranoid because the feedback came from an outsider, only been relayed by FP.
    I was mentally comparing it to going for a quiet meal out a deux to find that there is a good-humoured but noisy party at the next table. Not quite the same I know, but some of the psychology applies: as long as the group is NOT being intimidating, why shouldn't they go out and have a good time as a group? Taking it further, in a ceroc venue, as long as they are not being exclusive and refusing to dance with 'non-group' people, then I would say that if "outsiders" are feeling "intimidated" enough to whine about a 'one off' several weeks later then it is their problem and not the group's.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    Agree now lets all descend on Ashtons wearing yellow shirts with 'im better then you'
    Can I have the red option which says "I'm worse than you, please take pity on me?"
    Last edited by LMC; 15th-June-2005 at 04:18 PM.

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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    This crowd came in, could dance a bit, except that they suffered from intermittent paralysis in the middle of a track, and occassionally started twitching instead of dancing. Odd thing was that they seemed to think that they were doing it better. Didn't they see the "CEROC" sign?

  3. #23
    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    This crowd came in... < snip > and occassionally started twitching instead of dancing. < snip>
    Aren't there better places to go bird-watching?

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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Depends on the 'birds'

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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    Agree now lets all descend on Ashtons wearing yellow shirts with 'im better then you'
    I'd also go with the red option.

    It is quite an interesting idea. Makes you wonder what people would look out for when searching a particular dancer. They no longer use simple elimination tactics by sorting people by colour of clothes

    Quote Originally Posted by NewKid
    I was mentally comparing it to going for a quiet meal out a deux to find that there is a good-humoured but noisy party at the next table. Not quite the same I know, but some of the psychology applies: as long as the group is NOT being intimidating, why shouldn't they go out and have a good time as a group? Taking it further, in a ceroc venue, as long as they are not being exclusive and refusing to dance with 'non-group' people, then I would say that if "outsiders" are feeling "intimidated" enough to whine about a 'one off' several weeks later then it is their problem and not the group's.
    I agree. As I mentioned before, it all comes down to 'who do YOU blame that YOU did not have the courage to ask'. It is totally understandable that a group of friends goes out for a dance will also want to dance among themselves. And for as long as they don't make that a reason to decline others that ask for a dance - nothing wrong with it.

    Last edited by Andreas; 15th-June-2005 at 10:30 PM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    As I mentioned before, it all comes down to 'who do YOU blame that YOU did not have the courage to ask'.
    You did, I'm just not as polite as you are

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    Depends on the 'birds'
    I was going to say aren't there better places for an ornithologists convention, but that didn't have so much "potential".....

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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    In the centre of a metropolis the crowd will often be people from work, the session will end in time for reasonable commute home. people will likely NOT have their life partner with them so will dance around more than suburban or small town dances. Which start later after the punters have gone home, showered, and fed. At a provincial group the people attend in couples and often resent being asked to dance by an incomer.

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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Why is it that some people seem to resent it when a bunch of friends, who just happen to be decent dancers, turn up to a venue together & have a good time?

    Are they jealous that they can't dance as well as the interlopers?

    Are the miffed that they arn't being asked to dance by the regular dancers, cos they are having a dance with some new blood?

    Are they miffed that the new dancers are not forming an orderly queue to dance with them?

    As far as I can remember I was always ecstatic when new, good dancers turned up at a venue we were at cos it gave us an opportunity to watch, learn and make new aquaintances and even become friends! See it as a positive experience.


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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    At the risk of getting neg.rep;if you were at Southport did you not get the feeling that the area around the bar in the Blues Room was definately an exclusion zone.Much as I enjoyed watching and listening;heaven forbid that I should have the nerve to ask one of them to dance;I found it very much a closed area to the 'rank and file'
    Or have I got it wrong again!!!

  10. #30
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy
    Why is it that some people seem to resent it when a bunch of friends, who just happen to be decent dancers, turn up to a venue together & have a good time?

    Are they jealous that they can't dance as well as the interlopers?

    Are the miffed that they arn't being asked to dance by the regular dancers, cos they are having a dance with some new blood?

    Are they miffed that the new dancers are not forming an orderly queue to dance with them?

    As far as I can remember I was always ecstatic when new, good dancers turned up at a venue we were at cos it gave us an opportunity to watch, learn and make new aquaintances and even become friends! See it as a positive experience.

    It does seem pretty understandable. There is a difference between a few good dancers who don't change the character of a place the locals know and presumably like, and a large number. Especially if they seem to bring strange music with them.

    It perhaps could be considered that advanced incoming dancers are effectively doing another type of dance entirely. They like and look for different things. 'Good' dancing for one group may not equate to good dancing for another.

    Consider if a favourite venue was invaded by large numbers of Country and Western dancers, doing an unknown form of dance ( and they brought their music with them ).

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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo
    It does seem pretty understandable. There is a difference between a few good dancers who don't change the character of a place the locals know and presumably like, and a large number. Especially if they seem to bring strange music with them.

    It perhaps could be considered that advanced incoming dancers are effectively doing another type of dance entirely. They like and look for different things. 'Good' dancing for one group may not equate to good dancing for another.

    Consider if a favourite venue was invaded by large numbers of Country and Western dancers, doing an unknown form of dance ( and they brought their music with them ).
    I still do not understand why my more obscure rendering of the same argument generated a comment about bird-watching.

    Some venues treasure their "everybody knows everybody, everybody dances with everybody" ethos, others have their own cliques. In either case nomadic bands of "Hotshots" can expect a mixed reception. I sometimes attend venues where strangers not wearing beginner stickers tend to be isolated. It can appear rude to walk past someone you know to ask a stranger to dance.

  12. #32
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy
    Why is it that some people seem to resent it when a bunch of friends, who just happen to be decent dancers, turn up to a venue together & have a good time?
    Well, for yet another analogy, think of a crowd of local football club supporters, being "invaded" by a group of Japanese tourists at an important match, wearing all the club colours, knowing all the club songs, fanatical about the club performance, but sticking to themselves and hogging all the best places to view the action. As a local, you might well feel a little aggrieved by this behaviour?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy
    Are they jealous that they can't dance as well as the interlopers?
    Yep, as we all are. Anyone not jealous at some time or other is not human.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy
    Are they miffed that the new dancers are not forming an orderly queue to dance with them?
    Yes, disorderly queues are just sooo annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy
    As far as I can remember I was always ecstatic when new, good dancers turned up at a venue we were at cos it gave us an opportunity to watch, learn and make new aquaintances and even become friends!
    Totally agree, on an individual basis. But on a group basis, no, especially if that group stays together and makes it difficult for "regulars" to break into the group.

    I'm also still skeptical about the difference in relative abilities of the two groups, but I don't believe that matters. What matters is if there were two different groups.

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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev
    At the risk of getting neg.rep;if you were at Southport did you not get the feeling that the area around the bar in the Blues Room was definately an exclusion zone.Much as I enjoyed watching and listening;heaven forbid that I should have the nerve to ask one of them to dance;I found it very much a closed area to the 'rank and file'
    Or have I got it wrong again!!!
    Definitely got it wrong there Djtrev.

    Ask and you will receive!

    It was the music driving the dancing not the dancers commanding the floor.

    I have never danced with so many new faces as I did on all 3 nights in the blues bar area, so you definition of"rank and file" does not exist IMHO.

    I can only say that it was the bar area, it was well lit, it was a small area in comparison to the other rooms and it was a bit of a squeeze to dance at times, there was lots of seating around and lots did sit and watch probabaly making it more of an amphitheatre and possibly more intimidating than the other rooms.But it was so so so friendly!

    But the music WOW! It was always challenging, moody sometimes sublime.

    I found itdifficult to sit down and hardly missed a track.(except whilst waiting for drinks at bar occasionally)

    Thanks to LL, DD, Trampy, Marc, Paul Amos and anybody else I missed out


    PS no neg rep from me either you make a valid observation.
    Last edited by under par; 16th-June-2005 at 08:32 AM.

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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    On a group basis, no, especially if that group stays together and makes it difficult for "regulars" to break into the group.
    Nod.
    One thing I notice is eye contact - if a group never makes eye contact outside their immediate circle, it tends to imply that they are uninterested in all those they don't know. Also, closed circles send a clear "do not disturb" message, whereas open circles appear more friendly.

    Like trev, I found parts of the Blues room intimidating at times - though I'd put that down to the quality of the dancing rather than anything negative in the attitude of the dancers.

  15. #35
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Totally agree, on an individual basis. But on a group basis, no, especially if that group stays together and makes it difficult for "regulars" to break into the group.
    Nobody deliberately makes it 'difficult' for anyone to break into anything at any of these dances!

    If they want to dance, just ask. How hard can it be.

  16. #36
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy
    Nobody deliberately makes it 'difficult' for anyone to break into anything at any of these dances!

    If they want to dance, just ask. How hard can it be.
    Actually, very hard, if you're all visibly in a group. The study of group dynamics is a weird and wonderful thing - if you're interested, here's a couple of links: Link 1 and Link 2.

    I'm no expert, but I know that the bahaviour, reactions and responses of a group is different to those of the individuals in a group. And this behaviour is pretty much unconscious - you have to make a real effort to break out of the group sometimes and do your own thing.

    Certainly, I'm not accusing anyone of conscious Evil Excluding Groupism; but perceptions of "groups", "elites", etc. do very much exist in Ceroc (just look at all the threads about this topic). I'd hope we should all make an effort to avoid generating such perceptions. And achieve World Peace whilst we're at it

    On a personal note, as an OAP (Officially Antisocial Person), I don't do groups, so this is all academic to me anyway

  17. #37
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    On a personal note, as an OAP (Officially Antisocial Person), I don't do groups, so this is all academic to me anyway
    As another self confessed OAP, can I join your group?

    Oh, wait..... just one problem with that idea....

  18. #38
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou
    As another self confessed OAP, can I join your group?

    Oh, wait..... just one problem with that idea....

    Certainly, please join the Anti-Group Gender-Confused Group, or AGGCG (there's an acronym to conquer the world with).

  19. #39
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Underpar
    Definitely got it wrong there Djtrev.
    Yes, I'm afraid I have to agree with Underpar here Trev, I danced all over the place, including the bar area and I'm certainly not one of the elite but I never felt an unfriendly or un-welcoming vibe either.

    I didn't ask Jordan to dance, simply cos I don't know enough WCS, not cos I felt intimidated by the fact he's a great dancer.

    I actually felt privileged to be able to witness some of the really good guys freestyling together, a bonus I didn't have to pay extra for.

    and to be honest, I felt sorry for Jorden and Tatiana, cos they couldn't just have a normal dance, I'm sure they felt slightly embarrassed, that every time they got up to have a dance, people around them stopped dancing and formed a crowd.

    I met Tatiana outside, looking totally shattered and she said, I'm soo tired, I can't even face dancing tonight.

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    Like trev, I found parts of the Blues room intimidating at times - though I'd put that down to the quality of the dancing rather than anything negative in the attitude of the dancers.
    Martin, you danced with me, in that VERY SPOT didn't you?


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames

    Totally agree, on an individual basis. But on a group basis, no, especially if that group stays together and makes it difficult for "regulars" to break into the group.
    So here's an analogy.... say for instance, I'm a good dancer, I'm away from home on business and I fancy a night of dancing, it's OK with you if I go to the local venue on my own but I can't arrange to meet up with 'peter, paul and sheila from the forum', (all good dancers) who I haven't seen for ages and just happen to be in the area on the same night too

    This thread's making me sad and paranoid.
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
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  20. #40
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    Re: Dance "Immigration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory
    say for instance, I'm a good dancer
    OK; "you're a good dancer" (You are, really you are, I just couldn't resist, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory
    it's OK with you if I go to the local venue on my own but I can't arrange to meet up with 'peter, paul and sheila from the forum', (all good dancers) who I haven't seen for ages and just happen to be in the area on the same night too
    Hey, anything you do is OK with me

    But if you arrange to meet 30-40 people, out of, say 200 or so, and spend time talking and dancing mainly within those 30-40 people, you are creating a grouping pretty much by definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory
    This thread's making me sad and paranoid.
    Well then, my work here is done...

    FWIW, I'm not too bothered by groupings; I'm big enough (metaphorically speaking!), confident enough (relatively speaking) and ugly enough (literally speaking) to take care of myself most of the time. But group dynamics of these sort do exist, and people should be aware of them.

    Making an effort to reach out from a group is, I believe, quite healthy, and more in the spirit of Ceroc (dance with anyone, anywhere, any level, any time) than staying within the same group. However, I'm biased, being an OAP and all, so don't listen to me.

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