Dance "Immigration"

[Feelingpink]

A few weeks ago, a bunch of forumites descended on the Greenwich Ceroc Party night, probably making up about a third or more of the attendees. It was a sold out night with good music (Toby WK & Dan Hudson) and room to dance (because of restricted numbers) and enough men to dance with (tickets sold to balance numbers). We forumites loved it. So far, so great.

So tonight I'm at a regular Greenwich Ceroc night (I've become a convert since it's half an hour door to door, the music is good, fun lessons, room to dance and nice people) and chat to one of the regulars about the same party night. She mutters darkly about a "bunch of ring-ins" (that'll be us forumites) who mostly danced within their own group and also about the "local" guys who were too intimidated to ask any of the "visiting" women to dance. She also disliked Toby's music (this, I happen to disagree with).

I think she has a point. It seemed that very few of us danced much outside "our own" but I wonder whether we have an obligation to, when "our own" makes up such a substantial proportion of an event and we are visiting? If we were moving to a new country, there would be the expectation that we learn the language, culture and integrate to some extent. Why not here? Is it right that we should make the regulars feel nervous? Another 'regular' woman I spoke to tonight said she thought it should work both ways - with 'regulars' asking 'visitors' to dance as well.

I also wonder if it would benefit us with a bit of cross-pollination? One of the regulars I danced with at the party night is now on the forum and promises to come to Jango, another couple (if not two couples) also might pop along (sorry Russell & Dan if it seems as if I'm pilfering your punters - I'm sure they can do two dance nights a week ). What do other people think?

PS The next Greenwich Party night is on August 20 and tickets are only been sold in boy/girl pairs ... and I need a "boy" to go with - any takers?

[under par]

It is a very good point you make, as one of the visiting crowd I recall dancing with many forumites and feeling well within my comfort zone.

I did and generally do venture out of that zone.

I asked many ladies to dance who where not known to me and several who where sat out a lot.

I'm not sure how common this is amongst all of us though!

[David Bailey]

I think she has a point.

And to you for raising this, it's an interesting question.

It could be that the whole forum social gathering thing is a victim of its own success - if you have a large group of friends descending on an event, it's likely they'll dance with each other more than "outsiders".

And the "outsiders" aren't stupid - they can feel the vibe, the body language, and will understandably resent that - the "Over paid, over sexed, over here" syndrome

It seemed that very few of us danced much outside "our own"

That's a shame. My personal approach is to not even consider a girl's forumetta-status when asking someone to dance - I generally don't know, nor do I care overmuch, whether my dance partner is on the forums or not, only whether I think we'll have a good dance together.

But I appreciate that approach may not work for most people, I'm just weird that way

Another 'regular' woman I spoke to tonight said she thought it should work both ways - with 'regulars' asking 'visitors' to dance as well.

Certainly, but I feel there's more onus on the away team in such a situation to not abuse the regulars' hospitality by ignoring them.

[Lory]

I'm not exactly the shy and retiring type but even I can find it quite intimidating to ask people I don't know, who are standing about, laughing and chatting with their mates.

I've often feel I might be seen as interrupting, or pushy or heaven forbid, thought of as hitting on someone's boyfriend, you can never quite be sure what the dynamics are.

It's much easier if you can catch someone as they exit the floor, then, after dancing with him, ask if he could introduce you to some of his mates.

So, what you've just described is exactly the same, just in reverse. 'we' turn up mob handed, all excited, chatting and laughing and totally unaware how we might appear to others, 'we're' just having a good time.

It takes a brave and confident person to try to break into 'that circle'

SOOOO In the interest of harmony between the 'home team' and the 'away side,' I think the only way to over come this problem, is to have a few organised 'excuse me' dances, where everyone has to dance with a stranger and swap about.

[under par]

SOOOO In the interest of harmony between the 'home team' and the 'away side,' I think the only way to over come this problem, is to have a few organised 'excuse me' dances, where everyone has to dance with a stranger and swap about.

With all this home and away team analogy (sp?) could we have a penalty shootout or golden goal to sort out any disagreements.

[Gojive]

With all this home and away team analogy (sp?) could we have a penalty shootout or golden goal to sort out any disagreements.

Look out for a net...she's a lovely dancer

[Divissima]

So tonight I'm at a regular Greenwich Ceroc night (...) and chat to one of the regulars about the same party night. She mutters darkly about a "bunch of ring-ins" (that'll be us forumites) who mostly danced within their own group and also about the "local" guys who were too intimidated to ask any of the "visiting" women to dance. She also disliked Toby's music (this, I happen to disagree with).

I can see the point you are making, FP. I can understand how, to the non-forum people, it seemed like we were a big gang, but I'm not really sure it's quite true. There were forumites there who I barely knew and had never danced with before (JiveP, for example). There were lots of other forumites there who didn't know each other. I know you made a point of going round asking as many men to dance as you could, whether on the forum or not. I didn't ask many men to dance but I certainly tried to be as polite, friendly and approachable as I could and danced with everyone who asked me. After a collision on the dancefloor (my fault) I made a point of going up to the non-forumite collidee and apologising fully - a few minutes later he asked me to dance and we had two lovely dances. I'm sure many other forumites also asked non-forumites to dance and accepted offers for dances from all-comers. The lady you spoke to obviously had a clear perception of 'us-and-them' from the night, but I'm not sure it's a balanced perception. Nevertheless, that is how she felt about the night, and she is entitled to her opinion. I'm not sure there's much we can do to prevent people from forming such perceptions - I think we are generally a friendly bunch who love to dance with our friends, and with new people too but ultimately we can't control how people perceive us. What we can do is make an effort to be friendly and integrate - and I think most of us already do (which is not to say that I/we couldn't do more). At the next Greenwich night (can't wait, by the way, can't wait! can't wait! ) I will make more of an effort to ask men who I do not know to dance, but I also want to dance with my friends. No matter how much effort we all make, I doubt there is any way to ensure that there won't be a single disaffected non-forumite - although, of course, it would be fantastic if everyone went away thinking we were all a lovely friendly bunch.

It is the same with the music - I know lots of people on the night thanked Toby for his set, and I'm sure there were others who agreed with the lady you spoke to - as all DJs (and organisers) on the forum know, no matter how much effort you make, you just can't keep everyone happy all of the time.

[Clive Long]

<< snip >>
So, what you've just described is exactly the same, just in reverse. 'we' turn up mob handed, all excited, chatting and laughing and totally unaware how we might appear to others, 'we're' just having a good time.

It takes a brave and confident person to try to break into 'that circle'
<< snip >>

I really think Lory has identified a "barrier" to "dance integration"

I remember seeing RK and ESG at Greenwich dancing with a number of ladies I believe were non-forumites / locals - and I am sure I put myself about - so, as has been covered elsewhere (I'm too lazy to find the link, although I now know how ) it's an individual responsibility to dance with new people - and you will find gems, as I did at Casbah last Friday - although the delights of encouraging a new dancer wear thin after the 4th dance with a tense / bouncy / uncoordinated / unrhythmical dance partner (old ground I know, I know).

Love, life and cod liver oil.

Clive

[Lory]

I've just thought of another thing

If you took say, 50 random 'forumite's' and 50 random 'nony's' (I just made that word up ) I think we'd find in general, the forumites will have some of the top players, have been on the scene longer, are probably generally better dancers and know more people.

We know, we're gonna have some real 'premier league' in there.

So, just imagine how it must feel, if you been going to the same club every week and you've worked your way up to becoming one of the clubs 'top score's' and next minute, you've been relegated, talk about have your nose put out of joint!

[Divissima]

So, just imagine how it must feel, if you go to the same club every week and you were one of the clubs 'top score's' and next minute, you've been relegated, talk about have your nose put out of joint!

I remember feeling precisely this way a few years ago with the arrival in my regular venue of some top-league lady dancers. I'm not terribly proud of it and I wish I could immediately have seen it as an opportunity to watch and learn (although I came to do so after time).

There will be some who get the 'nose-out-of-joint' feeling, but there will also be others who can immediately seize the opportunity to dance with new and good dancers, or to watch and learn.

[Clive Long]

... and I've just thought of another couple of things

I have vague recollections that when my mother and father went social dancing that there was always a "mixer" or two where the gentleman would ask a lady with whom (?) he had never (or rarely) danced.

... and ...

In my own experience at any dance venue I have been to: Finchley, Cheshunt, Twyford, Oxford, Kidlington, HurstpierPoint, Greenwich etc. (apart from small areas near the stage of Hammersmith and South Ken ) - that the majority of people present are open and welcoming - which is why I'm comfortable, nay look forward, going to any venue. Thinking about it, it's that single feature that has kept me going dancing for, well, longer than I wish to admit.

Clive

[under par]

I've just thought of another thing


We know, we're gonna have some real 'premier league' in there.

snip>> same club every week and you've worked your way up to becoming one of the clubs 'top score's' and next minute, you've been relegated,

you could get the GOLDEN BOOT for that many scores between posts

[David Bailey]

The lady you spoke to obviously had a clear perception of 'us-and-them' from the night, but I'm not sure it's a balanced perception. Nevertheless, that is how she felt about the night, and she is entitled to her opinion.

It's not even relevant if this opinion was "correct" or not - if she feels that way, she feels that way. And if she's representative - if other people feel that way - to me that's a problem.

I think we are generally a friendly bunch who love to dance with our friends

Hey, speak for yourself - I'm a miserable bugger, ask anyone....

No matter how much effort we all make, I doubt there is any way to ensure that there won't be a single disaffected non-forumite - although, of course, it would be fantastic if everyone went away thinking we were all a lovely friendly bunch.

Possibly a little less clumping in groups would help, and a bit more individual mingling?

It is the same with the music

I'm not concerned about that comment - you always get differences of opinion, you can't please all the people etc.

If you took say, 50 random 'forumite's' and 50 random 'nony's' (I just made that word up ) I think we'd find in general, the forumites will have some of the top players, have been on the scene longer, are probably generally better dancers and know more people.

Hmmm... I'm not totally convinced on the first three. It's easy to develop blinkered vision about how representative the forum is of dancers in general. And this especially applies to the "actively social" members of the forum.

Being actively social does of course make you a lovely person , but doesn't AFAIK make you a better dancer.

There are some awesome, gob-smackingly good, stylish and sexy dancers out there, many of whom have never even heard of the forums (amazingly enough ). They just happen to be sh*t-hot dancers.

Fair enough, I think the fact that a lot of the main posters are also involved in the business in some way "skews" the ability curve, but apart from that, I really dunno. Talking about dancing isn't dancing. Although it's a good substitute

[Andreas]

She mutters darkly about a "bunch of ring-ins" (that'll be us forumites) who mostly danced within their own group ...

All that means is SHE did not bother asking any of the new guys and was annoyed that none of them made the way across. Whose fault is it?

... and also about the "local" guys who were too intimidated to ask any of the "visiting" women to dance.

That is a bit of an issue but again, everyone is free to ask. Lack of self confidence can be improved by being asked by a good dancer but can hardly be blamed on good dancers nnot asking.


Her points are worth considering but not worth losing sleep over.

[Russell Saxby]

She mutters darkly about a "bunch of ring-ins" (that'll be us forumites) who mostly danced within their own group PS The next Greenwich Party night is on August 20 and tickets are only been sold in boy/girl pairs ... and I need a "boy" to go with - any takers?

Naughty, naughty forumites - I will have dance cards printed for the next one, and I expect to see at least half the names to be non-forumites

One of the regulars I danced with at the party night is now on the forum and promises to come to Jango, another couple (if not two couples) also might pop along (sorry Russell & Dan if it seems as if I'm pilfering your punters - I'm sure they can do two dance nights a week ).

No complaints from me. A bit of cross-pollination is a good thing (is that a word????)

PS The next Greenwich Party night is on August 20 and tickets are only been sold in boy/girl pairs ...

Still trying to decide if this is a good idea or not, but we do have plenty of time, so happy to try selling as pairs for a few weeks, if this doesn't work, we will open it up.

Having said that they have started to sell, so it can't be all bad. Get in quick, all begging texts and emails received during August will be deleted without guilt

... and I need a "boy" to go with - any takers?

Will you be vetting all applications???? Can I apply???

[Lory]

Will you be vetting all applications???? Can I apply???

Well if FP doesn't want you, can I have you?

[stewart38]

why has my post been taken out

[LMC]

So, what you've just described is exactly the same, just in reverse. 'we' turn up mob handed, all excited, chatting and laughing and totally unaware how we might appear to others, 'we're' just having a good time.

It takes a brave and confident person to try to break into 'that circle'

Yeah, but that's life/human nature. This thread strikes me as a bit "paranoid" to be honest (and I am the WORST for over-analysing things to death normally).

[Andreas]

Yeah, but that's life/human nature. This thread strikes me as a bit "paranoid" to be honest (and I am the WORST for over-analysing things to death normally).

That is a matter of how you look at it. I would not call it paranoid because the feedback came from an outsider, only been relayed by FP.

If a big group of better (?) dancers 'takes over' a place it can be very intimidating to the locals. And people should be aware of it.

As I said in an earlier post, it is nothing to worry too much about but certainly something to be aware of.

[stewart38]

That is a matter of how you look at it. I would not call it paranoid because the feedback came from an outsider, only been relayed by FP.

If a big group of better (?) dancers 'takes over' a place it can be very intimidating to the locals. And people should be aware of it.

As I said in an earlier post, it is nothing to worry too much about but certainly something to be aware of.

Agree now lets all descend on Ashtons wearing yellow shirts with 'im better then you'