Good week, bad week

[LMC]

Well, I can't compete with Ducasi, so this is just a shameless attention-seeking thread...

I graduated to intermediate classes last Monday (I've done 3 already since then...)

Someone put their stiletto through my big toe at Amersham on Saturday and I had to leave early

After repairing toenail with several coats of nail varnish, "my first dip" (or was it a drop?) in class on Sunday (oh, and my quads are STILL letting me know about it )

Also on Sunday, falling flat on my face after what felt like about 12 spins with no return - stubbed my toe, wrecked nail repair, blood all over my nice new shiny shoes

Rescued by the lovely Linda, who heard my excessive cursing in the Ladies as I was cleaning up after falling flat on my face (Thank you ) - the plaster even matched the nail varnish

Was asked to dance twice in a row by not one, but two (count 'em!) guys, so I must be improving (they obv. didn't see me fall flat on my face... or they were taking pity on me )

Worked out that I can do anticlockwise spins just fine - so with practice, I'll get the clockwise ones sorted

Finding the BEST shoe shop just 5 minutes away from the office - guess where I'm going at lunchtime

Right, better get back to work I suppose...

[ducasi]

Well, I can't compete with Ducasi, so this is just a shameless attention-seeking thread...

And what did you think mine was?

I think it's great you're writing about your experiences, and I hope you keep it up.

Good luck with the spins – I'm lucky not to have needed to sort out my own spinning yet.

If you come to the BFG, I'll ask you for a dance.

[CJ]

I'm led to believe that, in the physical sense of dancing, spins are the worst thing for a beginner woman to master.

Once you are there, everything else will become easier..

Is good that you are keeping going, and that you are still in touch with your sense of humour.

Maybe the shoe shop is helping.... discuss

[LMC]

I think it's great you're writing about your experiences, and I hope you keep it up.

Er, that's the sum total of my writings so far (which most people who know me would say is a Good Thing).

Here's some more:

Just "discovered" jazz shoes.... BLISS! Must remember to keep in practice with the heels tho' so the shiny shoes will be out tonight.

I'm starting to recognise a poor leader when I get one - they might have all the moves, but if I can't follow 'em with one guy when I have NO problems with another, that is a good indicator that it's not just me

Found myself playing "taxi" with a first-time guy last night - as in "forget the beat, let's get it right first" - and I was MAKING him lead it (for the record NO I DO NOT WANT A JOB when I've got more experience - I'm far too irresponsible)

Is good that you are keeping going, and that you are still in touch with your sense of humour.

Maybe the shoe shop is helping.... discuss .

My humour does not resemble your Earth humour

Yep, the shoes are a great comfort to me

[drathzel]

.

Found myself playing "taxi" with a first-time guy last night - as in "forget the beat, let's get it right first" - and I was MAKING him lead it (for the record NO I DO NOT WANT A JOB when I've got more experience - I'm far too irresponsible)

I am too but the made me one...... what on earth was mr pauly thinking

.
My humour does not resemble your Earth humour

CJ Humour = Earth Humour (oops, i think i just wet myself )

[CJ]

CJ Humour = Earth Humour (oops, i think i just wet myself )

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do ALL Earthlings treat their guests with such disdain?!?

[drathzel]

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do ALL Earthlings treat their guests with such disdain?!?

Only the ones that stand out as guests

[CJ]

Only the ones that stand out as guests

You been looking @ my kilt too closely again?!?!?!?!??

[LMC]

Aherm... before this thread gets sent upstairs...

Not a good day... I think the below speaks for itself.

Sent to franchisee and Ceroc HQ:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Beginners Plus workshop at XXX

Dear (franchisee)

Further to my earlier telephone message, I am writing to say that I am most disappointed with the lack of organisation around today's beginners + workshop.

As the Ceroc (franchise) website workshops listings are out of date, the first I heard of this was on Sat 11 June at the (venue) freestyle - I booked immediately and paid cash, leaving my name, membership number and e-mail address, with a request for further detail.

On Sunday, we spoke briefly at (another venue) and I confirmed details of the time and venue of the workshop - I was informed it was the (venue) from 1-5 pm. Being satisfied with this, I did not telephone or e-mail to follow up. Obviously, I should have done as I have not heard anything from Ceroc (franchise) about this workshop.

I was therefore dismayed when I arrived at 1250 today to find that there was no-one there, that the club manager knew nothing about it, and that he did not even have an up-to-date contact number for you (mobile or landline). Two other ladies turned up for the same workshop and one said that she had in fact received a confirmation by e-mail (which I did not).

As I have paid for this workshop and I left an e-mail and my membership number (which would have given you further contact details), I cannot understand why this has happened. I hope you will understand why I am reluctant to book on any further Ceroc (franchise) workshops and would therefore request that you refund the £25 - cheque payable to me.

Thank you

Yours sincerely

(me!)
(membership number nnn nnn)
------------------------------------------------------------------

Guess I'm off out to enjoy the sunshine now. But I was really looking forward to this workshop and am very disappointed.

[Jazz_Shoes (Ash)]

Sorry to hear that, workshops are alot of fun (so i've heard anyway ) Glad to see you're taking action, don't let them get away with it! I've still yet to go on my first workshop-have put my name down for next beginners so hopefully will be able to tidy up everything, and I am also hoping that we do the Catapult as it is the only beginner move that I cannot do properly!

Let us all know if you recieve a response, and get everything sorted out Seems a little strange that the other women got a confirmation e-mail, maybe they had problems with their computers?

Ashx

[LMC]

Thanks Ash - well, we'll just see what comes back. The fact that the club manager had no booking for it tells me that there's been some screw up somewhere rather than a last minute disaster (which would have been disappointing, but totally forgiveable).

Re: catapault - I had a few difficulties with that one - until I went to a workshop . Let me guess, it's the spin, right? Well, as I discovered on that workshop, I think you will find that there are an awful lot of naughty men out there who don't step back for the spin - which leaves you 'wrong footed' for a clockwise spin if you have to step forward for it. So, don't put the extra step in to spin on your left - when they let go of your right and 'push' your left hand, just spin - then they HAVE to step back (or be sent flying ). Works for me (well, except that I'm rubbish at clockwise spinning anyway). Hope that helps....

[David Bailey]

Thanks Ash - well, we'll just see what comes back. The fact that the club manager had no booking for it tells me that there's been some screw up somewhere rather than a last minute disaster (which would have been disappointing, but totally forgiveable).

and
I believe the vast majority of workshops are both well-organised and worthwhile, however, so please don't let that put you off.

Let me guess, it's the spin, right? Well, as I discovered on that workshop, I think you will find that there are an awful lot of naughty men out there who don't step back for the spin

Err, did you mean "step back whilst the lady steps forward and to your side?"

'Coz I don't think the man steps back when leading the spin. Of course, I could have been doing it wrong all this time

[LMC]

and
I believe the vast majority of workshops are both well-organised and worthwhile, however, so please don't let that put you off.

Thanks David The workshop I went on previously was very good, but could maybe have done with shorter and more frequent breaks (1.5 h solid with no time to swig some water unless I left some poor guy standing without a partner was a bit wearing!). Otherwise was fantastic, very useful. I will definitely go on another - but sorry to say, will avoid this franchise in future. I've been quite downhearted about this today and could see someone not so pig-obstinate as me being put off totally.

Err, did you mean "step back whilst the lady steps forward and to your side?"

'Coz I don't think the man steps back when leading the spin. Of course, I could have been doing it wrong all this time

Now I'm confused too - probably my bad description. OK, let's see if we agree how it should look... (the most 'logical' foot for lady to use is in brackets). I might have this totally wrong but I thought it went

1 - step back (right)
2 - step forward, lady turns 180 deg anticlockwise to be standing at man's right (turn on left, brake with right)
3 man steps forward - slight R diagonal needed, lady back - slight L diagonal needed (left, bring right back to meet it)
4 lean (again, I've noticed an awful lot of guys seem to merge this with either 3 or 5 - I frequently feel 'rushed' through a catapult in freestyle, but maybe that's just because I'm bad at it?)
5 lady steps forward - slight R diagonal needed, man back - slight L diagonal needed so lady ends up on man's left (right)
6 spin

At this point, lady is by the man's side. If the man does not move, then the lady will be spinning at his side, not in front of him - which puts her in the wrong place for the return. Unless the lady steps forward. Which, following on from the above, would be on the left foot. And it's b***y difficult enough (for me anyway ) spinning clockwise anyway, without having to try to do it on the 'wrong' foot! So, logically, man has to move either as he leads the spin or before he catches. Shurely?

7 return

(NB, numbers apply to moves, can't remember the beats 'cos I've never led it )

I know ceroc doesn't officially have footwork, but some things are just easier or look nicer on one foot than another. If I've got all that TOTALLY wrong then I need to go to another beginners workshop

I'm going to be trying to work this out all b****y night now

[David Bailey]

Now I'm confused too - probably my bad description. OK, let's see if we agree how it should look... (the most 'logical' foot for lady to use is in brackets). I might have this totally wrong but I thought it went

...
5 lady steps forward - slight R diagonal needed, man back - slight L diagonal needed so lady ends up on man's left (right)

Sounds totally fine up to here - there are stylistic variations and "smoothing-it-out" points, but that sounds correct to me.

As always with this move, it's the lady spin part of it that causes problems.

Pasting from the excellent jiveoholic site, the spinning bit from the "lean apart" section is as follows (man's point of view):

[4] Move your left hand out to the left as you step directly backwards to bring lady to your left hand side (still facing same directions), with your left hand across her front.

[5] Turn the lady initially 180 CW in front of you by sweeping your left hand in a big circle from left to right in front of you (like stirring porridge) as lady places her right foot in front of you. Then let go with your left hand and spin her a further 360. You may spin 360 ACW if you wish at this point.
...
[Note] The spin actually gets started on the second half of beat 4 and continues throughout beat 5.

In other words, the man doesn't step back (again), but leads the lady forward.

Unless the lady steps forward. Which, following on from the above, would be on the left foot.

I believe the lady has to take an extra step forward here somewhere as well, so that may help...

I know ceroc doesn't officially have footwork

Woo, that there's fighting talk where I come from...

[LMC]

In other words, the man doesn't step back (again), but leads the lady forward.

OK, so I'm either missing the lead or most men are not leading it correctly - I will try to work out which it might be at my next few freestyle nights - but it feels to me like most just seem to let go of your right hand and try to spin you from where you both are. Thanks for the link too

I believe the lady has to take an extra step forward here somewhere as well, so that may help...

If you take an extra step, it leaves you on the wrong foot for a clockwise spin. That's the problem. Either that, or the guy has GOT to give you an extra beat on the 'pull forward' to let you get back on the right foot.

I really hope the catapault is in beginners class tomorrow....

<wanders off to stick catapault in 'Moves from hell' thread>

[Whitebeard]

OK, so I'm either missing the lead or most men are not leading it correctly - I will try to work out which it might be at my next few freestyle nights - but it feels to me like most just seem to let go of your right hand and try to spin you from where you both are.

I really like this move if it goes well - there can be a really nice 'bounce' as partners grab hands, lean apart, and then come together side to side.

From this side to side position the lead releases the RH and, with no change of position, sweeps the follower across and through 180 deg to face. Then with a continuing little clockwise 'flick' sends the follower into a full spin. That's the idea anyway, and I've no idea of the dynamics of the follower's foot movements. But I do know that, as a lead, I have to be very careful not to be too exuberant and send my follower into a very wobbly spin.

I do wish I had more good weeks than bad weeks.

[ducasi]

Having been told I lead a good catapult, I feel I can put my tuppence worth in here...

I've noticed a lot of beginner ladies go straight into a spin as they come back round my left-hand side, even when I haven't led them into it. This annoys me no end. Fortunately, I'm a forgiving person, and won't abandon her just for a little bit of harmless anticipation.

Like pretty much all beginner spins and turns, the spin in the catapult should be executed directly in front of the guy, and it is the guy's responsibility for getting his partner there. (It's the follower's responsibility to go where they're led. )

So, there might be a little step back by the guy as he draws you round, but if there is a step it's more about getting back into line with the "slot", and so would be back to the left.

Bottom line for me is: follow my lead, wait for me to spin you, please spin when I spin you, and don't assume just because this looks like a catapult that I'm actually going to spin you, you never know what I'm about to do – cos if you do, you could be the only one out of the two of us.

But as I've said before to more than one partner... "hey, whatever works..."

As far as your workshop problems are concerned, NewKid, I, too, would be very upset.

My own experience, though no-where near as bad as what happened to you, tells me that workshop arrangements can be a little disorganised. I've been (in some way) involved in two that were cancelled without the people hoping to attend being (immediately) informed. Not ideal.

I can understand why it happens, as the organisers struggles to get enough people, balance numbers, find a venue, maybe find a demo and then has to double-check that everyone is coming, and if not go back round again... Not an excuse for what happened to you though.

Hope you get it sorted out, and get your money back.

[LMC]

I've noticed a lot of beginner ladies go straight into a spin as they come back round my left-hand side, even when I haven't led them into it.

< smug > I don't spin until I'm spun < /smug >. But I know that 'back leading' is a problem and I consciously try to avoid doing it!

Thinking 'bout it, another 'issue' seems to be that most guys don't leave a beat for the lean - see my msg below. Same goes for shoulder drop, but let's not go there . If you don't leave that beat, then I haven't got time to get the weight onto my right foot, which then means that I can step into your left side on my left foot, which then means that I am on the right foot, i.e. the right foot ( ) for the spin.

Most 'leaders' don't seem to do that 180 deg clockwise 'sweep' before the spin - and I'm sorry to say that I don't think enough emphasis has been put on that in any class I've been in where the catapault has been taught (including the workshop) - it's been more a case of 'let go the right hand and spin the lady'.

As far as your workshop problems are concerned, NewKid, I, too, would be very upset.

My own experience, though no-where near as bad as what happened to you, tells me that workshop arrangements can be a little disorganised. I've been (in some way) involved in two that were cancelled without the people hoping to attend being (immediately) informed. Not ideal.

Not being "immediately" informed wasn't the point. Turning up 10 minutes before the workshop was supposed to start to find no-one from the franchise there and no knowledge of it from the organisation that owns/manages the venue was the point.

I can understand why it happens, as the organisers struggles to get enough people, balance numbers, find a venue, maybe find a demo and then has to double-check that everyone is coming, and if not go back round again... Not an excuse for what happened to you though.

Hope you get it sorted out, and get your money back.

As far as I know, there was no attempt made to contact me - no e-mails (and I did check 'junk', just in case a different address had been used to send it), no phone messages, no 'missed calls. I gave an e-mail address and my membership number (which would have given them access to all other contact details) at the time of booking.

[David Bailey]

As far as I know, there was no attempt made to contact me - no e-mails (and I did check 'junk', just in case a different address had been used to send it), no phone messages, no 'missed calls. I gave an e-mail address and my membership number (which would have given them access to all other contact details) at the time of booking.

Well, I admire your forebearance in not naming-and-shaming, but maybe you should...?

[LMC]

Well, I admire your forebearance in not naming-and-shaming, but maybe you should...?

I thought it only fair to give them the opportunity to send me a grovelling apology and send a cheque before I go that far - and as it's the weekend, I'll give 'em until, ooooh, about Wednesday to contact me (unless sorted before, see below). But if I don't get a satisfactory outcome, then I will name the franchise concerned. In a new thread. Being evil is so much more fun when it's fully justified

Worst thing was that I was just too downhearted to psych myself up to going to the Guinness freestyle on my own... I got as far as printing off the directions, but decided that two hours in an oven on wheels (to & from workshop venue) was enough for one day and I couldn't face it...

But I'm going out tonight - venue is owned by same franchise as didn't show for the workshop, and I have agreed with the other two ladies that turned up that we will be forming a small delegation....