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    Registered User Damien's Avatar
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    Question using the breaks

    All the experienced dancers talk about using the breaks in music. As a relative beginner I'm OK with executing the move, even keeping with the beat and rhythm of the music. I'm less sure about all this break stuff. Can anyone explain this to me in very easy laymans terms. Also easy examples of how the less experienced dancer can use a musical break. Using the breaks has never been demonstrated in any of the classes I've attended Can anyone help the uninitiated 'break dancer'?

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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Damien
    Can anyone help the uninitiated 'break dancer'?

    A "Break" is normally where the base or drum stop for a beat or two. Since this forms your 'counts' in a move, the easiest way to interprate them is stop your count within that move, or extend it untill the beat picks up again.

    "Hitting a break" is where a dancer predicts where this break will be in the music and is in a nice place to pose or go into a flash move to highlight it.
    There are musical theorys about counts and beats and bars and repeating patterns and how to predict when one will arrive within a song, but I've found it easier to just listen lots or become familure with where they are in a "classic" song that your DJ plays semi-regularly.

    Strictly speaking, a 'break' can be a break in vocals, in drums, in bass, in melody, or any of the layers that make up a track: they are musical highlights (or "lowlights") that are relativly easy to make the most of within a dance.

    How to use them? Standard ways are to freeze or dip. But anything goes.

  3. #3
    Donna
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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget

    A "Break" is normally where the base or drum stop for a beat or two. Since this forms your 'counts' in a move, the easiest way to interprate them is stop your count within that move, or extend it untill the beat picks up again.

    "Hitting a break" is where a dancer predicts where this break will be in the music and is in a nice place to pose or go into a flash move to highlight it.
    There are musical theorys about counts and beats and bars and repeating patterns and how to predict when one will arrive within a song, but I've found it easier to just listen lots or become familure with where they are in a "classic" song that your DJ plays semi-regularly.

    Strictly speaking, a 'break' can be a break in vocals, in drums, in bass, in melody, or any of the layers that make up a track: they are musical highlights (or "lowlights") that are relativly easy to make the most of within a dance.

    How to use them? Standard ways are to freeze or dip. But anything goes.
    Hmmm....unless you're a musician and you can guess where the breaks come in (like my dance partner...such a swat he is!!! ) then it's a lot easier to do this if you know your music.

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    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: using the breaks

    Bit pushed to do a full post -- there's a few notes and explanations at:
    http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/lat...musical_breaks

    Hope that helps a bit.

    SpinDr.

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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    Hmmm....unless you're a musician and you can guess where the breaks come in (like my dance partner...such a swat he is!!! ) then it's a lot easier to do this if you know your music.

    Unless you've been to one of Nigel's workshops !!

    It is much easier if you know the music but as he points out just being aware of the basic structure means you soon pick up where the beat is and when any break is likely to be as the pattern is repeated throughout the track. And you don't have to count tthem out and wait for them to appear!

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: using the breaks

    A good practical way of finding out about breaks and what to do with them, I think, is to wait for a "break-heavy" song (e.g. All That Jazz), and watch some experienced dancers to see how they interpret it.

    (Although I usually go to the bar for that one, it's just too much breakage...)

    Is there a list of "Break" tracks somewhere?

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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    Hmmm....unless you're a musician and you can guess where the breaks come in (like my dance partner...such a swat he is!!! ) then it's a lot easier to do this if you know your music.
    No, you don't have to be musician to find breaks.

    First of all is losing your focus on moves. Start to embrace the dance as a combination of music, your moves and your dance partner. Count external influences like audience in if you please.

    Then, when you are at home, on your own, listen to various pieces of music, in particular Swing style. Just close your eyes and feel the tune. You will after a short while find that there is a natural flow in the music, which you can 'float' in. After a wee while you will also find that music builds up and then settles again. In some pieces this is only hinted (boring disco), in other ones you build so much tension that there can be nothing but a break coming up.

    To get to a level where you recognise every single break in a piece you have never heard before is a long winding road. However, the more you can actually embrace the music in your dance the more you will feed off the the your pride when you recognise one, then two, then three .... breaks in a piece. It is a very rewarding feeling because not only does it give the dance for you much more depth and feel, it does the same for your partner ... and the audience if you can be bothered to care!


    It is clear that not all people are gifted with the same level of musicality. However, everybody has at least the slightest sense for it and that is all it takes to predict what is coming up.

    If it is easier for you, start counting music. A bar has four beats, two bars usually complete a harmonical wave (-> build up in first bar, release in second bar; and that is where musicians will attempt to kill me ), which you should be able to easily recognise. Count four of those and you are likely to hit the end of the phrase. Breaks usually occur after (x*2 bars) => 8, 16, 32 beats. There are exceptions but chances are good that you hit breaks with this rule.

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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Is there a list of "Break" tracks somewhere?
    You mean break dance?

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: using the breaks

    Some more advice taken from the rec.arts.dance FAQ (section 8.2 - Hitting the breaks - there's a lot more there than I've quoted):
    Most "breaks" that you want to hit come at the ends of verses, chorus, or bridge, so you want to be aware of when these things are coming up. This isn't as hard as it may seem, because the phrasing in the lyrics and so on will often tell you. To hear when the breaks are coming, try listening closely to the bass lines. Think of each verse, (or bridge or chorus) in the song as a paragraph and the lines of each as sentences in the paragraph. You can tell, from inflection, etc., both in the words and in the instrumental section, when each "paragraph" is about to end. You can tell this even in a purely instrumental song, even if you come in the middle. The percussion will often build in certain ways leading up to a break. Part of the secret is that most songs are made up of *repeated* structures. Almost everything in American popular music (except 12-bar blues) is written in verses with four lines apiece; once you've heard the first verse, you know how long (in measures) all the rest of the verses will be. (In 12-bar blues, the verses are three lines long, and the second line is often a repeat of the first, though sung with different inflection.) Now, you don't have to count beats or even bars; you need only an approximate feel for how long a verse is, and then you can be aware of the cues (changes in the bass line, changes in the inflection on the vocals, etc.) that will tell you "last line of the verse coming up!"

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    Re: using the breaks

    "relative beginner" is a fairly broad term... The simplest possible way to interpret a break is to dance through it. Some women actually prefer this, though I doubt many are on this forum.

    The second simplest possible way to interpret a break is a very low key "in and out" or "side to side". Easy to lead into, allows some "play" space, easy to lead out of. It doesn't matter so much if you miss the start or end of the break.

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    Re: using the breaks

    If your only dancing exposure is Ceroc then you will probably need to go elsewhere for any training on hitting breaks. I am not bad mouthing Ceroc just pointing out that it is not some thing I have ever noticed them teaching in my area.

    The best thing you could possibly do is to get yourself off to Nigel and Ninas classes on “Hitting the Breaks” and “Musicality”. Despite my pleading they have not made a DVD of these lessons – possibly because they need each lesson tailored to the needs of each class. Failing that I will pass you my two pence worth.

    1) Learn to count the beats of the music so that you can know when a new group of 8 beats start in a piece of music. Listen to lots of music and count along the groups of 8. If you find you have trouble with this then ask around and you can usually find someone with musical traingin that can hlep you. You should notice that a piece of music has an introduction and then goes into a verse. This verse will probably repeat itself a few times before going into an instrumental section in the middle of the song and then there will be a few more verses and then the song will finish with an outro. It is the structure of the repeating verses that are most useful for you to understand as a means of predicting where the breaks will come. Grab a pen and paper and as you count each group of 8 beats draw a short vertical line. When the instruments stop playing just lift the pen off the paper and then put it back down when the instruments start playing again. A good tune to start practicing with is Elvis “All Shook up” and your verse structure that repeats all though the song would look like ] ] ] : ] ] ] : (ie four groups of 8 with no instruments playing in the final group). The final group of 8 where there are not instruments playing – that is your break, In general, when you get a piece of music where there is an instrumental section in the middle there will be no breaks in that section. Get a pen and paper and give it a go for a while – you have nothing to lose.

    2) Try to have a simple move that is short that you can lead into a break. A travelling return is a good starting point since you don’t have to learn anything new and it is short (vital if you only realise a break is coming when it is a few beats away). If you find you are going to arrive at the break too early you can extend the move by leading the woman into an extra turn. If you are going to be too late to the break you can make the woman do the spin twice as fast if she is a very good spinner, but if she is not a good spinner don’t force her to do it. Just arrive as the break late – it is not worth losing a friend over. To stop the woman moving when you arrive at the break just apply gentle downward pressure on the womans hand by pulling her fingers straight down to the floor (gently!) so that her hand points down to along her mid line (wish I could think of a better way to say that). This will place her weight equally on both feet and will signal a stop.

    3) Find an experienced follower that you have already seen hitting breaks and tell them of your desire to learn. Most will be very helpful in playing along with someone that genuinely wants to learn. They may backlead a little at the right times, just to help you, and they will stand still when music requires it.

    4) Restarting the dance at the end of the breaks. If you take “all shook up” as an example track. The breaks are all 8 beats long, so you can do anything you like (but less will be more at this point so keep it small) up until beat 6 but on 7 and 8 both of you are getting ready to restart dancing just as you would if you had the teacher by your side counting 5,6,7,8.

    Time to wrap up. Breaks are not always 8 beats long. They are usually 4,8 or 12 beats long. Any longer than that and there is a possibility that the track has just ended. At the moment don’t worry about having lots of ways of hitting breaks or having flashy things to do during them. When you feel you can reliably anticipate an impending break and hit it in a planned way, then start thinking about things to do during the break.

    Well there is my two pence worth. Remember, it is just my opinion, and the stuff said above is a VERY basic beginner’s guide. The afterfive.co.uk link above is comprehensive but I hope my bit is a little more digestable.

    Have fun.
    Last edited by Chef; 14th-June-2005 at 11:38 AM.

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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Is there a list of "Break" tracks somewhere?
    "Come up and see me, make me smile" has breaks you could drive a horse and cart through.

    A list would be really useful, any more, anyone?

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    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat
    "Come up and see me, make me smile" has breaks you could drive a horse and cart through.
    As does "Wade In the Water" - Eva Cassidy....

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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef
    If your only dancing exposure is Ceroc then you will probably need to go elsewhere for any training on hitting breaks.
    Depends on the what workshops are going on and who's teaching them rather than the organisation behind them.

    1) Learn to count the beats of the music so that you can know when a new group of 8 beats start in a piece of music.
    I don't think I have ever actually "counted" in a break - I listen to the music. You will normally find a slight build up before a break or a "shhh-t" of symbols. If you also "build up" your dancing to this, when the break comes it becomes more dramatic.

    2) Try to have a simple move that is short that you can lead into a break.
    A freeze is not the only sort of break, although it is the easiest to lead and can be what the follower expects. I would say that having to be at a particular point of a move when a break comes is really, really hard to do: you are better to simply make wherever you are in a move the 'break point'. Simply extend a bit more and put some 'pose' value in at the point the beat stops.

    3) Find an experienced follower that you have already seen hitting breaks and tell them of your desire to learn.
    Good idea - just be carefull not to be too commited in your leading and try not to 'drag' them through moves.

    4) Restarting the dance at the end of the breaks.
    The advantage of "freeze-frame" in the middle of a move is that you can simply thaw out and resume it. Generally you will freeze in an open position, with lots of space between you - simply go to a closed position like a wrap or first move or slide & collect and continue: this will give you greater contrast in the emphisis of the break.

    When you feel you can reliably anticipate an impending break and hit it in a planned way, then start thinking about things to do during the break.
    planning? What to do during the break can be a puzzle - generally I simply elongate going into the next move or try and mirror the lady.

    Good tips though.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou
    As does "Wade In the Water" - Eva Cassidy....
    And Mambo #5 has the useful trick of someone calling out "Mambo number 5" just before each of the breaks!

    It's interesting to mark out all the breaks and accents on something like "How long can a fool go wrong" as well - lots of structure to look at there....

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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef
    3) Find an experienced follower that you have already seen hitting breaks and tell them of your desire to learn. Most will be very helpful in playing along with someone that genuinely wants to learn. They may backlead a little at the right times, just to help you, and they will stand still when music requires it.

    That's why it would be good to have a list of suitable tracks because someone's asked me for some help with this and it would be hard to practise breaks to music with, er, no breaks in. Duh.

    I hate it when people dance through breaks and sometimes I just stand still, especially if it's a gentle or uncertain lead and I think I can get away with it. How naughty is this? I'm sure I did this with someone this weekend, who was it then? They gave me a very mild ticking-off.


    But if it's a strong, directing lead (are there any other sorts?) there's no opportunity to escape and the dissonance between what I hear and what is led can be really jarring.

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    Registered User Trousers's Avatar
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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat
    I hate it when people dance through breaks and sometimes I just stand still, especially if it's a gentle or uncertain lead and I think I can get away with it. How naughty is this?
    That happened to me tonight, a track I didn't know and the girl came into a first move and stopped.
    I just firmly ushered her back out then heard the rythm break.

    I smiled sweetly (yes i do sometimes) and said to her - "that would have been great if only I'd noticed it too" and just got on with the dance.

    It was a good dance regardless.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat
    I hate it when people dance through breaks and sometimes I just stand still, especially if it's a gentle or uncertain lead and I think I can get away with it. How naughty is this?
    Not naughty at all, I'd say - if it's a weak or uncertain lead, you should be free to do what you want; nature abhors a vacuum and all that. Arguably, this is a good way of training leaders not to give weak or uncertain leads

    Although I'd also say that interpreting every single break (especially for flippin' "All that Jazz") is not mandatory, one can be too much of a slave to the rhythm...

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat
    But if it's a strong, directing lead (are there any other sorts?)
    I believe the ideal is a "clear, but invitational" lead. So you know what you should do as a follower, but you're not forced into it.

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    Re: using the breaks

    Tracks to practice breaks to.

    I have had a trawl through my Ipod to find tracks that would be suitable to practice breaks to. Quite a lot of them come from a series of albums called “Swinging the blues” so I will just abbreviate that to STB.

    All shook up – Elvis
    Business of Love – Domino from the Mask soundtrack
    Summertime Blues – Eddie Cochran

    All have a similar structure and a good place to start.

    Jailhouse rock – Elvis

    Only use this one when you are hitting breaks in a planned way (not just “freeze frame” wherever you happen to be) because the breaks are 32 beats long and you would look silly standing on beat 3 of a pretzel (for instance) for that long. This track also gives you ample opportunity for playing and styling during the breaks.

    Blue suede shoes – Carl Perkins
    Red Light – Indigo swing
    Rock on – STB
    Hit that jive jack – Boyd Bennet
    Big and hot – STB
    Blue, blue world – The dynamic breakers
    Pride and joy – Sophisticated swing album
    Sharks in the water – STB
    Road Runner – STB
    Where’s my money? – STB
    I want you – the jiving jamboree Vol 1 album
    I just want to make love to you – Etta James
    Stray cat strut – stray cats
    Waddaya want – Casey MacGill and the spirits of rhythm
    Pennsylvania 6-5000 – Glenn Miller
    Good Rocking daddy – Brian Setzer.
    Mustang Sally – the Commitments.

    Since you said you were a relatively inexperienced dancer I would advise you to keep your moves to get you to a break relatively simple and short. This will allow you to hit a break in a PLANNED way (after all when you are doing a move you are already planning the next move so that it fits the music and the space available – right). Simply freezing wherever you happen to be just means that you haven’t heard the break coming, and that will not teach you anything.

    Finding an experienced dancer that will play along and help you out will be invaluable. Experienced followers love breaks because it gives them a space where they can express themselves to the music. Charging through a break with an experienced woman really grates on them.

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    Re: using the breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Not naughty at all, I'd say - if it's a weak or uncertain lead, you should be free to do what you want; nature abhors a vacuum and all that. Arguably, this is a good way of training leaders not to give weak or uncertain leads .........

    I believe the ideal is a "clear, but invitational" lead. So you know what you should do as a follower, but you're not forced into it.
    I should point out that not all gentle leads are uncertain. And some uncertain leads are not gentle. In fact, I positively revel in a gentle but certain lead which is what you are talking about as the ideal, I think!

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