The "No row"

[David Bailey]

Apparently, the No Row refers to the group row of women (usually women, apparently), at, ahem, certain venues. These women sit on the stage, in a row, and are "well-known" (not my words, I'm just the messenger) for saying "No" when asked for a dance.

Hence, the "No Row".

It's a new one on me, I must admit - anybody else come across this phrase?

(P.S. I'm too little to sit on the stage, so I'm not a No-Rower )

[Rhythm King]

Apparently, the No Row refers to the group row of women (usually women, apparently), at, ahem, certain venues. These women sit on the stage, in a row, and are "well-known" (not my words, I'm just the messenger) for saying "No" when asked for a dance.

Hence, the "No Row".

It's a new one on me, I must admit - anybody else come across this phrase?

(P.S. I'm too little to sit on the stage, so I'm not a No-Rower )

That would be "Refusal Row", front left of the stage at Hammersmith in days of yore... Only way to get accepted was to "audition" by showing off outrageously with a suitable and understanding friend! Then you might just get an acceptance. Ah I remember it well...

[Rebecca]

That's appauling - why on earth would anyone want to sit around on a stage instead of dancing ??

I'm familiar with the concept of 'auditioning' before experienced men began asking me to dance, but I rather hoped this was something that happened as new people are introduced to new venue's / crowds. If I thought that there was some sort of cattle-market assessment going on I think I would stay away. I've auditioned too many times in the past. Ceroc is about having fun. . . isn't it?

And the fact that it's mostly women - shame on them

[bigdjiver]

That's appauling - why on earth would anyone want to sit around on a stage instead of dancing ??

It was not "instead of dancing", it was knowing a better offer would be forthcoming. A lot of people travelled long distances to Hammersmith freestyles to get a better quality of dancing, and had to contend with local opportunists who abused the "they don't say no" principle. Few people would expect anyone to dance with unskilled weirdos in a very crowded environment, and a lot of ladies followed a "better safe than sorry" policy.

[David Bailey]

Hmmm, I didn't realise this was in place elsewhere - it wasn't Hammersmith the guy was talking about either (but you're close ).

A lot of people travelled long distances to Hammersmith freestyles to get a better quality of dancing, and had to contend with local opportunists who abused the "they don't say no" principle.

Well, without getting into a rant about combining the phrases "quality of dancing" and "Hammersmith" in a single sentence, I really don't like this elitist approach.

Few people would expect anyone to dance with unskilled weirdos in a very crowded environment, and a lot of ladies followed a "better safe than sorry" policy.

Well, I'd say "dancing with unskilled weirdos" is part of the essential Ceroc experience

Although I'd possibly state it as more "dancing with beginners, because advanced people danced with you when you were a beginner"... As for weirdos, I don't really think all beginners are weirdos...

MJ is potluck; that's the charm and the strength of it.

So put me firmly in the "anti-no-row" camp.

[bigdjiver]

...Well, without getting into a rant about combining the phrases "quality of dancing" and "Hammersmith" in a single sentence, I really don't like this elitist approach.... Well, I'd say "dancing with unskilled weirdos" is part of the essential Ceroc experience

My info is old. Allegedly Hammersmith was known outside MJ circles as a place where you could get to grope a babe cheaply. It was only a few, but it only takes one to ruin a night.

Although I'd possibly state it as more "dancing with beginners, because advanced people danced with you when you were a beginner"... As for weirdos, I don't really think all beginners are weirdos...

Maybe it is luck, but I have not met any weirdo beginners. I am talking about people who apparantly had no intention of taking dance lessons. I met up with several ladies who had been more than once, and never taken a lesson, and seemed to be using the event as a pick-up joint. Hammersmith when I used to go was very congested and a big test of floorcraft, and not a good place for a first dance. I repeat - old info.

MJ is potluck; that's the charm and the strength of it.
So put me firmly in the "anti-no-row" camp.

but circumstances alter cases.

[David Bailey]

My info is old. Allegedly Hammersmith was known outside MJ circles as a place where you could get to grope a babe cheaply. It was only a few, but it only takes one to ruin a night.

Ahh, I understand. And

I met up with several ladies who had been more than once, and never taken a lesson, and seemed to be using the event as a pick-up joint.

I never meet these women

Hammersmith when I used to go was very congested and a big test of floorcraft, and not a good place for a first dance.

Hasn't changed.

Love that phrase "a big test of floorcraft", by the way

[Rebecca]

Ahh we're all friends again

[Andreas]

Apparently, the No Row refers to the group row of women (usually women, apparently), at, ahem, certain venues. These women sit on the stage, in a row, and are "well-known" (not my words, I'm just the messenger) for saying "No" when asked for a dance.

Hence, the "No Row".

It's a new one on me, I must admit - anybody else come across this phrase?

(P.S. I'm too little to sit on the stage, so I'm not a No-Rower )

I haven't come across that phrase before either. However, there are people that tend to turn down when asked for dances rather frequently. The soothing thought should be that usually these people (male and female!) enjoy their mediocracy among themselves. If you look at who are the most arrogant people, you will easily see that these are people who think they are fabulous without a lot of substance to support that claim. It is a sad group with medium abilities that thinks they are too good for some dancers. Go and ask the better dancers, they are more fun to dance with and won't turn you down either.

This is something that I used to stress in class and should be done regularly: "You are never to good for another dancer. If you feel the other person is below your standard then maybe you need to work on your ability to accommodate and dance to the level of the other person."



(This does not address harmful/dangerous dancing or any GOOD reasons.)

[David Bailey]

I haven't come across that phrase before either. However, there are people that tend to turn down when asked for dances rather frequently.

My guideline is, if I get refused, I don't ask twice in one night, and if I get refused "x" number of times in a row ("x" varies a lot!) by someone I don't know, then I just don't bother in future. I used to stress, but since I applied that guideline I worry much less about refusers.

The soothing thought should be that usually these people (male and female!) enjoy their mediocracy among themselves. If you look at who are the most arrogant people, you will easily see that these are people who think they are fabulous without a lot of substance to support that claim. It is a sad group with medium abilities that thinks they are too good for some dancers. Go and ask the better dancers, they are more fun to dance with and won't turn you down either.

I can only say to that.

"You are never to good for another dancer. If you feel the other person is below your standard then maybe you need to work on your ability to accommodate and dance to the level of the other person."

Absolutely; you can have a fun dance with almost anyone at almost any level. If I ever turn into a serial refuser, just shoot me.

Ahh we're all friends again

Stick around, the day is yet young.

[JazzBug]

To be honest I tend to ‘charity’ dance (awful phrase I know) during the week and then cash in on the best dances at the freestyles. Is that bad??

The ‘No Row’ sound like a rather repugnant bunch , I think I’d steer clear on principle. Unfortunately it’s a universal principle, here in Southampton the quality of dancing takes a nose dive but we still have a hard core of dance snobs. They're usual repetitive at best and at worst I usual want to slap them for crimes again dance.

Drop them anywhere north of Fleet Services and they would be entirely lost on the floor.

I doubt they remember (or care) how it felt when they first danced with someone they really admired.

Dancing with noobies and improvers should be something everyone does although I know from first hand experience that it can get in long bouts.

[David Bailey]

To be honest I tend to ‘charity’ dance (awful phrase I know)

I've also heard it described as "mercy dance". Either way, it's a patronising phrase.

during the week and then cash in on the best dances at the freestyles. Is that bad??

Yes, you are evil.

I dunno, it's not an easy question, and I'm sure has been discussed to death here already. I'm certainly not going to dogmatically insist "you must always dance with everyone who asks you" (although I do, 99% of the time), and I certainly wouldn't attempt to say who you should and shouldn't ask to dance.

However, there are extremes of behaviour that people exhibit: serial refusal is one of them, and something I also find repugnant. If you don't want to dance, then sit down or go away from the dance floor - otherwise, to my mind, if you're on the edge of the floor, you are signalling you're available to dance with. And yes, I think this includes sitting on the stage.

The ‘No Row’ sound like a rather repugnant bunch , I think I’d steer clear on principle. Unfortunately it’s a universal principle, here in Southampton the quality of dancing takes a nose dive but we still have a hard core of dance snobs. They're usual repetitive at best and at worst I usual want to slap them for crimes against dance.

Drop them anywhere north of Fleet Services and they would be entirely lost on the floor.

Is there a real change in atmosphere at non-London events then? I confess, almost all my dancing has been in the Big Smoke, so I just assumed it'd be more or less the same everywhere...

[Zuhal]

Generally I am a never say no kind of guy but I was challenged recently by a lady in the rotation asking why I never asked her anymore....

Truth was that this lady is lovely to dance with and kind of on a level with me but I find her seriously and distractingly attractive. Since I am only there to dance I conquer the primeval reaction she creates by not going near her.

Try explaining that!!

Zuhal

[Cruella]

Generally I am a never say no kind of guy but I was challenged recently by a lady in the rotation asking why I never asked her anymore....

Truth was that this lady is lovely to dance with and kind of on a level with me but I find her seriously and distractingly attractive. Since I am only there to dance I conquer the primeval reaction she creates by not going near her.

Try explaining that!!

Zuhal

Oh that explains everything, i now know why i seem to do all the asking!

I stand by the left hand side of the stage at Hammersmith whenever i go there. Does that presume i am part of 'refusal row'? It is very rare that i turn down a dance. I don't think it is predominantly women, i have been turned down many a time by men who seem to think they are part of the elite dancing crowd. If a guy refuses me twice (within no particular timespan) then i will not ask him again unless he redeems himself by asking me first. I'm sorry to say it is more common around London than out of the city.
Surely the dancing is about having fun and not worrying that a certain partner is 'not good enough for us' I want to dance with the man who smiles and makes me smile.

[JazzBug]

Is there a real change in atmosphere at non-London events then? I confess, almost all my dancing has been in the Big Smoke, so I just assumed it'd be more or less the same everywhere...

There's very little to be found certainly in Southampton and the immediate surrounding areas. On a good nice we could muster some impressive dancers but most tend to migrate north. Certainly very little to inspire me round here.

I went to Twyford last Saturday and was amazed at the quality of dancer and music! I felt I could really learn something by watching those guys.

My biggest gripe is the music! I’ve tried so often to give DJs CDs but very rarely hear anything i hand over. Even stuff i know works really well at other nights.

If the music was more inspiring we might eak a bit more musicality out of people, instead i get track after track of euro-pop rubbish (conservative wording) and stuff which I’ve heard for the past 8 years. And before i stick my foot in it (I don’t want to upset some of the better independent venues) I’m talking largely about the company that dominates a big chunk of the south coast between Portsmouth and Bournemouth that shall remain nameless.

Rant over. Sorry about that! I feel better now.

[David Bailey]

Oh that explains everything, i now know why i seem to do all the asking!

Indeed - clearly, you're too attractive for your own good.

Seriously: Zuhal? You're nuts, man.

I stand by the left hand side of the stage at Hammersmith whenever i go there. Does that presume i am part of 'refusal row'?

Don't ask me, this is all new to me. I only cottoned on to the fact that some of the "good dancers" (Hmmm...) are often clumped in the stage area myself a year ago. I'm just slow.

It is very rare that i turn down a dance. I don't think it is predominantly women, i have been turned down many a time by men who seem to think they are part of the elite dancing crowd. If a guy refuses me twice (within no particular timespan) then i will not ask him again unless he redeems himself by asking me first. I'm sorry to say it is more common around London than out of the city.
Surely the dancing is about having fun and not worrying that a certain partner is 'not good enough for us' I want to dance with the man who smiles and makes me smile.

Also, I'm sure none of the forumettas are "No row"-ers.

Just goes to show how fragile our egos all are... Comes of being geeks, don't you know?

[ducasi]

Truth was that this lady is lovely to dance with and kind of on a level with me but I find her seriously and distractingly attractive. Since I am only there to dance I conquer the primeval reaction she creates by not going near her.

I've felt a bit like that with a few girls, but then I noticed that a lot of other guys were avoiding them too, maybe for the same reason. So I've now decided not to fear asking attractive girls to dance with me.

As I result I'll usually get a great dance, and a good excuse if I mess up. ("Sorry, your smile dazzled me there for a moment. ")

(I'll also assume that's why some girls don't ask me to dance. Right? ... Yeah?? ... What??? ... No???? )

[Robin]

snipped

If the music was more inspiring we might eak a bit more musicality out of people, instead i get track after track of euro-pop rubbish (conservative wording) and stuff which I’ve heard for the past 8 years.

Ahh .. he's obviously not been to Finchley then has he David ?

On topic though, whilst DJing it gets quite difficult to dance with people who ask - they even make a point of coming up on stage and asking too ......nows a good time to make a general apology I suppose !

[Minnie M]

There's very little to be found certainly in Southampton and the immediate surrounding areas. ........./snip/....My biggest gripe is the music! I’ve tried so often to give DJs CDs but very rarely hear anything i hand over.

Have you tried Kelly's MNP nights at Minstead Hall, I love her music she is IMHO the best DJ you have your area. A mixture of Swing & R&B I travel all the way from Brighton for her nights (she has a dance in Totton this Saturday - I would have gone, but going somewhere else this weekend )

[spindr]

Have you tried Kelly's MNP nights at Minstead Hall, I love her music she is IMHO the best DJ you have your area. A mixture of Swing & R&B I travel all the way from Brighton for her nights (she has a dance in Totton this Saturday - I would have gone, but going somewhere else this weekend )

Well, I reckon it's a close call between Kelly and Andy Kale (especially when he's just playing swing)

I quite often travel down to Saturday Showcases and Friday Freestyles down at the Admiral Lord Nelson school at Southsea (check out the details on Lyndas List). Some great dancers there -- and I've never had a problem getting a dance

SpinDr.

P.S. There's also "salsa by the sea" at Southsea and Gary's Lindy hop classes are around there -- so it's not a bad place to wander along to.