Condescending leads

[MartinHarper]

To women/followers - what styles/methods of leading do you find come across as condescending or patronising? As an example, a friend of mine dislikes guys calling out names of moves in addition to leading them. Apparently, it gives the impression that they don't trust her to follow the lead.
(the reality is probably that they don't trust themselves to give a correct lead, but there you go)

[David Bailey]

To women/followers - what styles/methods of leading do you find come across as condescending or patronising? As an example, a friend of mine dislikes guys calling out names of moves in addition to leading them. Apparently, it gives the impression that they don't trust her to follow the lead.
(the reality is probably that they don't trust themselves to give a correct lead, but there you go)

I got thrown last week - I was doing a weird and complex move with a new partner - 'coz I'm mean that way - and it's a straightjacket-type thing which usually puts the fear of God into most followers if they haven't done it before (you can see it in the whites of their eyes, I tell you ).

So, to ease the tension, I sometimes grin at the end of it and say "See, easy?", as I thought it helped allay their fears / buoy confidence, and usually I get a look of relief in return. Admittedly, that could be relief that I didn't do even more damage, but even so, I assumed it helped.

But last week a follower said "Why do you say Easy?", looking slightly indignant. I sputtered, "Err, well, you see...", and left it at that comprehensive answer.

So, is that being condescending? I'd like to know - I'll certainly think twice about saying that in future...

But calling out names, no - that's just silly, if you can't lead the move, expecting the follower to know what you want to do and correct your mistakes is just daft.

[Lou]

As an example, a friend of mine dislikes guys calling out names of moves in addition to leading them. Apparently, it gives the impression that they don't trust her to follow the lead.

And it wouldn't help me - we've got different names for things around here...

Good question. My biggest hate is when I've failed to perform a move with a partner & he just turns to me and says "Oh, you don't know that one, then? We do it at such-and-such venue". I find that very condescending.

We also have one chap here who over-emphasises the move, signals loudly, and points to where he wants you to step, etc... It looks a bit naff, IMO. But some ladies might like it.

[Purple Sparkler]

The worst lead I know is a guy who, despite the fact he has no sense of rhythm and is generally just not, well, better than chocolate (I'm trying to be polite), tells me I'm doing things wrong. Even though I know I'm not, because I pay attention in classes, I think if I was a beginner and dancing with him (not that he would ever condescend to dance with a beginner), it would absolutely wreck my confidence.

As a result, I tend to avoid dancing with him.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Some people find the move(s) where you offer your right hand behind your back then take it away at the last minute condescending, I think - or so they've said in the past on the Forum, but I've always got a genuine (as far as I can tell) smile out of it. As I have with the chest-bounce, which kicked off a recent thread. So I guess a lot of it is in the execution.

[MartinHarper]

And it wouldn't help me - we've got different names for things around here...

That's ok. I'll just say the names loudly and very slowly...

[Purple Sparkler]

Some people find the move(s) where you offer your right hand behind your back then take it away at the last minute condescending, I think - or so they've said in the past on the Forum, but I've always got a genuine (as far as I can tell) smile out of it.

When a guy does that to me going into a 'you thought it was a pretzel but it's not' type move, I tend to make a playground-rude gesture with my other hand when we're facing each other. One of my favourite partners mirrors it. It's fun.

[Lou]

That's ok. I'll just say the names loudly and very slowly...

Oi! I'm not blonde*, you know!




*Please don't start another poll, ESG...

[JoC]

I might have to punch you in the nose if you routinely keep cocking (I believe that is the correct term) your head on one side in patronising fashion whilst I attempt to follow what you're leading. 'You' is no-one in particular but exists... Looks very 'ooh can you do this? Ooh what a clever little girl! (supposing it goes right)', leaves me waiting for a pat on the head, pat pat pat.

I'm going to regret this, I bet someone pats me on the head now and I'll probably deserve it!

[stewart38]

Some people find the move(s) where you offer your right hand behind your back then take it away at the last minute condescending, I think - or so they've said in the past on the Forum, but I've always got a genuine (as far as I can tell) smile out of it.

Only one women has ever said to me thats a stupid thing to do

A few dont get it

But most I think,think its fun especially if you do the face with thumb bit

I dont usualy do it with people who i dance with regulary and dont usually do it often

[Sparkles]

I don't like it when someone (usually someone you don't know or who dances with you infrequently) picks a move (that they've usualy lead badly) and repeats it over and over again until you (by some strange coincidence, as they've still not lead it properly) do what they want you to do and then they say something like "See, it's not that difficult is it?!"
It's one thing to be taught a move by a teacher, but when some irritating so-and-so who thinks they know best decided that you need training to do their moves it gets my back up. There are ways and ways of getting people to do what you want - I might suggest that leading it correctly would be the first and best option!
S. x

[Sparkles]

I might have to punch you in the nose if you routinely keep cocking (I believe that is the correct term) your head on one side in patronising fashion whilst I attempt to follow what you're leading. 'You' is no-one in particular but exists... Looks very 'ooh can you do this? Ooh what a clever little girl! (supposing it goes right)', leaves me waiting for a pat on the head, pat pat pat.

I'm going to regret this, I bet someone pats me on the head now and I'll probably deserve it!

The first time I spoke to RK it was because he patted me on the head in jest (after he'd seen some b*gger had just done it to me in a patronising way).

Be warned JoC - there are patters out there and they may be picking you as their next target!
S. x

[El Salsero Gringo]

I don't like it when someone (usually someone you don't know or who dances with you infrequently) picks a move (that they've usualy lead badly) and repeats it over and over again until you (by some strange coincidence, as they've still not lead it properly) do what they want you to do and then they say something like "See, it's not that difficult is it?!"
It's one thing to be taught a move by a teacher, but when some irritating so-and-so who thinks they know best decided that you need training to do their moves it gets my back up. There are ways and ways of getting people to do what you want - I might suggest that leading it correctly would be the first and best option!
S. x

As usual, I'll jump in with another construction on the same events: perhaps he's trying to perfect his lead rather than teach you the move? Perhaps it's because he recognises your competence that he's thinking - crikey, if I can't get Sparkles to follow this, I need to work on getting it right! Anyway, that's what I'd be thinking.

I'd do a move twice in a row (or in a short space of time) and if it didn't work I'd give up on it for that dance.

[Northants Girly]

Last week, after I successfully followed a long, complicated move a guy said to me "Well done!"


W****r!

[Gary]

I don't like it when someone (usually someone you don't know or who dances with you infrequently) picks a move (that they've usualy lead badly) and repeats it over and over again until you (by some strange coincidence, as they've still not lead it properly) do what they want you to do and then they say something like "See, it's not that difficult is it?!" ...

That does sound bloody annoying. I've also been told, though, that (at least some) ladies prefer it if they miss a move that I try it again and give them (and me) a second chance at it. Is there some magic number of attempts to make?

[DavidB]

Is there some magic number of attempts to make?

Yes - one less than the number they find annoying.

[David Bailey]

I might have to punch you in the nose if you routinely keep cocking (I believe that is the correct term) your head on one side in patronising fashion whilst I attempt to follow what you're leading. '

I think I'd better stop that "easy" habit right now

I'm going to regret this, I bet someone pats me on the head now and I'll probably deserve it!

Blimey, I doubt anyone would dare...

[ElaineB]

That's ok. I'll just say the names loudly and very slowly...

But, can you manage a Bristolian accent me lover!


Elaine

[philsmove]

But, can you manage a Bristolian accent me lover!


Elaine

Awlrite Me Luvver
Dees Casn't Do dart even’n Art Cleff

[Tessalicious]

I don't like it when someone (usually someone you don't know or who dances with you infrequently) picks a move (that they've usualy lead badly) and repeats it over and over again until you (by some strange coincidence, as they've still not lead it properly) do what they want you to do and then they say something like "See, it's not that difficult is it?!"
It's one thing to be taught a move by a teacher, but when some irritating so-and-so who thinks they know best decided that you need training to do their moves it gets my back up. There are ways and ways of getting people to do what you want - I might suggest that leading it correctly would be the first and best option!
S. x

I can totally identify with that one - while I don't have a problem with a guy repeating a move once to practice the lead (preferably interspersed with another move or two), or if you both agree it would be nice to work out how it should go, I do get slightly frustrated by the guys that give you the rolling eyes when a move doesn't quite work and then repeat it, over and over and over again without changing anything they're doing, just expecting you to magically work out what it is that you're not doing. If a guy does that too often it can discourage you from dancing with them because it is quite deflating to the old ego (not that I am under any illusions of being a wonderful dancer but it would be nice for the level of confidence I have not to be shattered by someone who has little right to act superior).

As far as calling moves beforehand is concerned, there is a lot of talk of 'verbal leads' for certain drops/aerials etc but generally they aren't necessary for social freestyle moves - I would have thought that, especially since many venues don't seem to teach moves by name, the follower is, in general, more likely to know the move from the lead than from the name!