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Thread: Competitions: performance or dancing?

  1. #21
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    Performance dancing is still dancing, so "performance or dancing?" doesn't make much sense...
    As the posts above have said, "Dancing" is about the connection with your partner. "Performance" is about the connection with the audience.
    Why do competitions put so much emphisis on the connection with the audience and so little on the connection with your partner? I thought that MJ was all about dancing with your partner to the music - not dancing with your partner to the audience. If I'm right, then wouldn't people's energys be better spent in working on that connection rather than the projection? Or is the "projection to your audience" a quick and easy solution to gloss over any failings in the connection?

    I also think that DWAS is probably the best way to compete showing skill against skill. I'm not sure that the one 'fixed' random partner is the best way, but that's another thread.

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    Re: Competitions: look or feel? audience or partner?

    I'll happilly dance with "scum buckets" if the nature of their scumminess does not reduce my enjoyment of the dance. It's not like dancing with me is some great gift that I shall bestow only upon those worthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    "Dancing" is about the connection with your partner. "Performance" is about the connection with the audience.
    When the All Blacks do the haka, it's all about performance, and connection with the audience and the other team, but that doesn't stop it being dancing. I have no great love for fixed partner choreographed modern jive, for aesthetic reasons. It is still dancing. I guess I know what you're asking, but it's not (IMO, as ever) a good way to ask it.

    On another note, good social dancing has elements of performance in it. The emphasis on performance is reduced, and varies between couples. All the same ideas about lines and such apply - these things are not weird esoterics of interest only to fixed partner competition dancers.

  3. #23
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    What are you, a nutter or something?
    This has to be one of the nicest compliments I have ever heard! What you doing tonight, sugar?

  4. #24
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    This has to be one of the nicest compliments I have ever heard!
    Yeah? So where's my rep then, huh?

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Yeah? So where's my rep then, huh?
    Sorry, you were the last one to receive rep from me, the board rules do not cater for outragous generosity

  6. #26
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    For possbly the first time ever, I find myself in agreement with all of Gadget's points
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    Why do competitions put so much emphisis on the connection with the audience and so little on the connection with your partner? I thought that MJ was all about dancing with your partner to the music - not dancing with your partner to the audience. If I'm right, then wouldn't people's energys be better spent in working on that connection rather than the projection? Or is the "projection to your audience" a quick and easy solution to gloss over any failings in the connection?
    Because "projection" is visible, whereas a lot of "connection" is tactile, and can only be clearly sensed by the couple themselves. (Good terms, by the way)

    Whilst "connection" will presumably translate into a high-quality dance experience, it's more subtle than flashy visual moves, and won't be so obvious to an observer. Obviously, having both connection and projection is good for competition dancing, but some couples may well feel that projection is more important.

    I'd hope that a MJ judge would focus on the connection, but I dunno. I doubt that anyone could win a competition by just doing the first move variations, no matter how well they were done. Although I'd love to see someone try...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    I also think that DWAS is probably the best way to compete showing skill against skill. I'm not sure that the one 'fixed' random partner is the best way, but that's another thread.


    I think it's a Roger's point ("DWAS is a ploy by organisers to try to bring people into comp the easy way and filling the floor with beginners after the pro competitors have just set a standart few even aspire to.") may have some truth in it, but I also think DWAS competitions more accurately reflect the "DWAS ethos" of MJ in general.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    but I also think DWAS competitions more accurately reflect the "DWAS ethos" of MJ in general.
    Which is probably why it has been scrapped off the list or the upcoming NZ champs.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    Which is probably why it has been scrapped off the list or the upcoming NZ champs.
    Yes, and...? Don't get funny with me, you ex-pat, I'm still owed some rep from you.

    Seriously, so what? That could be a commercial decision, it could be taken because competition dancing is so different from proper club dancing (guess which one I prefer ), or any other reason.

    I'd love to see a "rolling SWAS" competition - dancing with several strangers, and getting marks each time. That'd remove some of the element of chance of pairing up, and it'd test adaptation skills even more. I doubt it'll happen, too much hassle to organise. But if it did, I'd enter (and I never thought I'd say that ).

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Yes, and...? Don't get funny with me, you ex-pat, I'm still owed some rep from you.

    Seriously, so what? That could be a commercial decision, it could be taken because competition dancing is so different from proper club dancing (guess which one I prefer ), or any other reason.

    I'd love to see a "rolling SWAS" competition - dancing with several strangers, and getting marks each time. That'd remove some of the element of chance of pairing up, and it'd test adaptation skills even more. I doubt it'll happen, too much hassle to organise. But if it did, I'd enter (and I never thought I'd say that ).
    Wow so much to say on competitions with ( how much experience have you had )
    In America they already run a rolling DWAS comp and it works very well
    Why is comp so diffrent from freestyle dancing i hardly change at all other than direct my finish in one direction so with your vast knowledge please explain how we differ from freestyle to comp because i just cant see it...

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Yes, and...? Don't get funny with me, you ex-pat, I'm still owed some rep from you.

    Seriously, so what? That could be a commercial decision, it could be taken because competition dancing is so different from proper club dancing (guess which one I prefer ), or any other reason.

    I'd love to see a "rolling SWAS" competition - dancing with several strangers, and getting marks each time. That'd remove some of the element of chance of pairing up, and it'd test adaptation skills even more. I doubt it'll happen, too much hassle to organise. But if it did, I'd enter (and I never thought I'd say that ).


    Their reasoning translates to 'it has not the level and class people want to see'. In a way they are right, DWAS is not necessarily for the audience and it will always remain a lucky dip. Add to it that only a few people really 'dance with a stranger'. And since it is hugely popular it always takes ages to sieve through the field. So in a way I can understand why they scrapped it. However, just as you mentioned: it represents the idea behind MJ. And for that reason it is pretty sad.

    The 'rolling DWAS' is already practiced in OZ. Guys and girls are being judged seperately and have to change partner every 30 seconds. It works well but is quite a job for the judges.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    I'd love to see a "rolling SWAS" competition - dancing with several strangers, and getting marks each time. That'd remove some of the element of chance of pairing up, and it'd test adaptation skills even more. I doubt it'll happen, too much hassle to organise.
    This is the format that DWAS takes here - you dance with several different people in each heat/semi/final

    not overly difficult to organise

    we also have it at different levels - beg, intermediate & advanced
    Last edited by Yliander; 25th-May-2005 at 12:33 PM.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    ...Their reasoning translates to 'it has not the level and class people want to see'...
    I have no experience of their DWAS. However if I were making a commercial for MJ I would want to use some clips from UK DWAS comps. From my limited experience Rena's winning performance from 98 being first on the list . The Ceroc winners (2001?) being second. They encapsulated, for me, what MJ is mostly about, sheer joy.
    Last edited by bigdjiver; 25th-May-2005 at 12:47 PM.

  13. #33
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Because "projection" is visible, whereas a lot of "connection" is tactile, and can only be clearly sensed by the couple themselves. (Good terms, by the way)
    I think evidence of this can be seen in SDF too, where the judges have complained often that "James isn't leading Claire." Even these experts don't seem to be able to see that "connection." This is the same James that has been lauded by his teacher as a fantastic leader, and the same James that recently won a DWAS at Camber.


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    I'd love to see a "rolling DWAS" competition - dancing with several strangers, and getting marks each time. That'd remove some of the element of chance of pairing up, and it'd test adaptation skills even more. I doubt it'll happen, too much hassle to organise.
    This format was also used at Hipster's a while back.

    Greg
    Last edited by Sheepman; 25th-May-2005 at 12:47 PM.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman
    This format was also used at Hipster's a while back.
    Darn, and I was going to patent that one. Well, good to know I'm not totally dumb, despite:
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon r
    Wow so much to say on competitions with ( how much experience have you had )
    Almost none - I never let experience or facts get in the way of my ranting, surely you've got that by now?

    I'm just a mouthy git, basically.

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