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Thread: Competitions: performance or dancing?

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    Competitions: performance or dancing?

    There is a thread just now on the Ceroc Austrailia forum about advice for competition dancing - it's all about performance arts and skills rather than dancing: Project to the audience, what looks good, lines, orientation, connecting with the audience... all about delivery to an external audience.

    Is that what competitons are about? A performance? You've got to be seen to be dancing well and engaging not only your partner, but everyone who's around watching.

    OK, I admit that some 'acting' and dramatisims make for some great dancing, but they are to create a bubble to contain you and your partner that the audience can satisfy their voyeuristic intension. When you 'invite' the audience into this bubble, are you not then bursting this bubble and taking away from the connection between you and your partner?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Excellent, I was thinking we haven't had a discussion on competitions for a while

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    Is that what competitons are about? A performance?
    Yep.

    Hmmm, not much of a discussion there.... OK; competitive MJ dancing and club MJ dancing are, it seems to me, very different beasts.

    In comp MJ, you're practising intensely with the same partner, getting used to working with them, understanding and working with their strengths and weaknesses, tailoring your dancing to that person, and devising moves and styles specifically for that person, and also specifically to look good (crowd-pleasers).

    In club MJ, you're dancing with as many different people as you can, and you're trying to create as good a connection as you can with each person, altering your dance style every time to the changing requirements of each partner and each dance. You aren't so concerned about the "visuals" as about the "feel" of the dance; you're pleasing yourself and your partner, rather than playing to the crowd (well, mostly ).

    My 2p's worth....

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    There is a thread just now on the Ceroc Austrailia forum
    Ceroc Australia is actually its competitor it is the Ceroc and Modern Jive Forum and I think that the thread has some very good points.

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    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    ... competitive MJ dancing and club MJ dancing are, it seems to me, very different beasts.

    {snip}
    I agree, but isn't DWAS/Lucky Dip somewhere in-between?

    If it isn't, it should be. (I've never been to a competition, so I don't know.)

    There has to be some category I'd have even a remote chance in, no? Please?
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi
    I agree, but isn't DWAS/Lucky Dip somewhere in-between?
    Good point (darn it, I hate those).

    DWAS comps are, to me, a good example of MJ ethos, and a good test of how well you can put "club" dancing techniques into practice.

    They're still visual or display-oriented, and the pot-luck element does mean that the winners are usually not the best pair of dancers, but the ones who happened to click on that occasion. But again, that's like normal MJ club dancing.

    The only 2 comps I've ever entered have been DWAS-type, I enjoyed them both. But I'd never (OK, probably never) go for a traditional competition.

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    Registered User Purple Sparkler's Avatar
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Good point (darn it, I hate those).

    DWAS comps are, to me, a good example of MJ ethos, and a good test of how well you can put "club" dancing techniques into practice.

    They're still visual or display-oriented, and the pot-luck element does mean that the winners are usually not the best pair of dancers, but the ones who happened to click on that occasion. But again, that's like normal MJ club dancing.

    The only 2 comps I've ever entered have been DWAS-type, I enjoyed them both. But I'd never (OK, probably never) go for a traditional competition.
    Having done the Lucky Dip at the Champs, I have to say David's right about how you win them. I really didn't click with the partner I got at all (serves me right for going in for something involving LUCK). And then he came up to me at a Hammersmith Freestyle Night and said "well, you've got plenty to work on now. I got into the semi finals of my other categories". I could have slapped him. There were plenty of dancers in the Lucky Dip who I would have been able to kick ass with, had I been paired with them.

    And if I can find a partner I DO click with who's willing to try, I'm definitely considering going in for the Intermediate trophy next year. AND the Lucky Dip. And I'll probably go in for the competition at the Ashtons Beach Party next Monday, too. What can I say? I'm a glutton for punishment- making a complete idiot of myself in front of 500 people just WASN'T ENOUGH for me.

    And re actual dancing- it depends on the category. In the Intermediate and Advanced competitions, the best dancers I saw (the ones I picked out, rightly, as medal winners) were all about the musicality, they were on the beat, had a smooth style, and were working well together.

    In the showcase, Open, and double-trouble, (and to an extent the Team Cabaret), there was more of a sense of all of the above plus showmanship- playing up to the judges, putting in moves that were fun to watch (the Clowns in double trouble being a case in point), generally raising your game with some bells and whistles (in this case, CF Black Magic, the team that won the cabaret).

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    I'm guessing Gadget is talking about CMJ's Connecting with the audience thread, amongst others.

    Performance dancing is still dancing, so "performance or dancing?" doesn't make much sense...

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    IN a comp The dancing skills are assumed and the performance skills are what counts for points.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Well, if I see aerials in a DWAS (Lucky Dip) competition the idea of the event has been defeated for me. Aerials are not 'club' and unless you know your partner and can assume that certain signals to air steps are being understood you simply can't do them.

    As to the actual topic of the thread, comps are more about performing than dancing. That is exactly why you see so little 'dancing' at comps. My opinion is that people take the wrong approach. They try to dance for audience and judges, which ends up in performing rather than dancing. In most cases competition couples have got hardly anything going on between each others in comps, they are not dancing with each other but for and also with a third party, judges and/or audience. A partner dance should be all about the other person. If that is accomplished then the judges and the audience will love you because you involve them in your story. Unfortunately this happens bugger all.

    I would not put this lack of 'chemistry' down to comps only, even on a social dance floor you don't see a lot of it. In many cases one of the partnership feels 'forced' to dance with the other person, be it out of politeness or whatever reason. Rarely only will you see on a social dance floor a couple (strangers or not) that have 'something going on'. And it will make all the difference to those who watch, no matter if funky, cheeky or sexy. With chemistry lacking on a social dance floor the situation is naturally aggrevated at comps because focus changes to performance over just dancing.

    The difference between performing and dancing, as I see it, is in the connection of the two dancers. If the other person is not the most important thing AFTER MUSIC, then it becomes a performance. A dance is involving the mind of watchers, a performance is only involving the eye.


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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    There's always a connection tween partners, Just sometimes it goes past the dancing, Several performing partners are not romantically attatched, some are otherwise attatched. I want to a ballroom comp once and some of the men were so camp as to not want a female partner except for dancing.

    When you get to serious comp work it is WORK and you have to find the partner that works well with you to turn a personal dance skill into a well presented performance.

    DWAS is a ploy by organisers to try to bring people into comp the easy way and filling the floor with beginners after the pro competitors have just set a standart few even aspire to.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerR
    There's always a connection tween partners, Just sometimes it goes past the dancing, Several performing partners are not romantically attatched, some are otherwise attatched. I want to a ballroom comp once and some of the men were so camp as to not want a female partner except for dancing.

    This has got nothing to do with a romantic connection in real life or not. You either can act it out or you can't, that is where you have to divide dancers. A dance is a dance, it starts and ends on the dance floor. If a love song is played then for those 3 minutes the only person you love is the person you dance with. THAT is what the audience sees, flash moves or not.

    I have seen many dances full of aerials and the first time I was impressed. Second time I saw it I was bored, third time very bored, fourth time I could not wait for it to finish. You can't keep the attention of an audience by impressing them unless you can top your performance each and every time you enter the dance floor. Otherwise people will quickly get bored with what you do. If you can tell a story and really involve people in your 'temporary relationship' then people will look at you and keep looking because they want to know what is next. Next time you come onto the floor to a different piece of music you tell a different story because the setting has changed. Again, people will follow you because you tell somehting completely different, yet the audience can associate with you. Third time is a different song again and again you will naturally change your story.

    Not sure if it isn't obvious from that blurb but what I am saying is that you can't retain the attention of the audience unless you have 'something going on' or you keep topping your own show. That is exactly why competitions are often rather boring to watch, why people often show up for semis and finals but not heats: They don't want to see the same stuff strutted again and again and again. Would the general focus more be on interpretation of music and connection to the partner, I hazard the guess, people may actually be more entertained because they can 'read' what the competitors do.

    I must have too much time

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Sparkler
    Having done the Lucky Dip at the Champs, I have to say David's right about how you win them. I really didn't click with the partner I got at all (serves me right for going in for something involving LUCK). And then he came up to me at a Hammersmith Freestyle Night and said "well, you've got plenty to work on now. I got into the semi finals of my other categories". I could have slapped him. There were plenty of dancers in the Lucky Dip who I would have been able to kick ass with, had I been paired with them.
    What a scumbucket.

    Of my 2 DWAS, I did well in one, because I lucked out and got matched with a superb partner, with whom I clicked. I did poorly in the other, because I got matched with a novice, with whom it was more difficult to click. But I certainly would never have said anything like that to her - it's the luck of the draw - and we're quite good friends now through that comp.

    As for Mr Scumbucket, just trust in Darwinian selection - it's likely he won't breed.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    As for Mr Scumbucket, just trust in Darwinian selection - it's likely he won't breed.
    So, how did all the Scumbuckets get here?

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    So, how did all the Scumbuckets get here?
    Mutation, cosmic rays, atomic bomb tests - the usual.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Mutation, cosmic rays, atomic bomb tests - the usual.
    "Scumbuckets are Born, not Made: Discuss"

    I think they get HERE through that pesky 'Ceroc being open to anyone' thing.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    Not sure if it isn't obvious from that blurb but what I am saying is that you can't retain the attention of the audience unless you have 'something going on' or you keep topping your own show.
    Excellent points, well-made. What are you, a nutter or something?

    But seriously, and more

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Sparkler
    "Scumbuckets are Born, not Made: Discuss"

    I think they get HERE through that pesky 'Ceroc being open to anyone' thing.
    I see a 'Do you dance with Scumbuckets' thread and poll coming round the corner... I look forward to see who defends the scumbuckets in that one

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious
    I see a 'Do you dance with Scumbuckets' thread and poll coming round the corner... I look forward to see who defends the scumbuckets in that one
    I don't think anybody does- because you don't KNOW they're scumbuckets until you talk to them. And then you try and avoid them, because they're scumbuckets.

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious
    I see a 'Do you dance with Scumbuckets' thread and poll coming round the corner... I look forward to see who defends the scumbuckets in that one

    Or possibly "Do you dance with f*t or o*d scumbuckets"?

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    Re: Competitions: performance or dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious
    I look forward to see who defends the scumbuckets in that one
    I'm up for it. (I like taking on baying mobs with pitchforks.)

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