Ladies' sabotage advice

[Mary]

Blimey! Must be that time of the month. Pah, pre-menstrual men.



M

Even if he is right - cuts both ways.

M

[bigdjiver]

Since my chest does not rate as an erogenous zone at all, I had difficulty realising that so many ladies had an aversion for touching it. Alas, there is no way of telling them from the others without trying it. ("Do you mind touching my chest, darling?" )

Having first been taught this move, and seen some of the fun play options being practised by others, I adopted it with enthusiasm. I pulled a lady towards me, and saw the look of consternation on her face as she averted her hands at the last instant and crashed into me with her bosom instead.

I put that down as an eccentricity, until it happened again, with a different lady. That was when I first realised that ladies were quite willing to do certain moves in a class, but not in freestyle. I have reluctantly dropped the hands on chest from my repetoire, although I really would like to try some variations on it.

[jivecat]

Well, thank you, folks. Plenty of stuff to work on there.

I especially like the single finger suggestions , as there's absolutely no danger of stabbing anyone with MY fingernails, in fact more likely to cause a skin infection after lengthy bouts of manuring the allotment. My fingers are probably sufficiently wizened and bony to warrant a terminal shove into a bread oven, though. And I didn't complain that anyone was sweaty, that was my digits I was referring to.

Guilty as charged as regards the body-fascist, anti-male, bitchy tone. And that was after I'd edited out the worst bits.

MartinHarper - you think dropping down and grabbing his hips would be an improvement?? Please demo the "Thunderbirds" pose for me next time I see you.

Lory - I'll be watching very carefully next time I see you dance!

Gadget - you're a gent.

DavidJames - Thanks for agreeing with everyone, always a good strategy. I should add that if in a moment of aberration a gentleman forumite did perform this move it would, by definition, be carried out with total style & panache.

Seriously, I take the point about following what is led, and communication. But there is usually no convenient point in the dance where I can say " I don't like that move" - once it's led, it's led, and I have to respond appropriately or in some way that doesn't spoil the flow of the dance, which is why I asked for sabotage moves. And because I'd like to learn more ways of adding my own improvisations to the dance, anyway.

Also, although (apparently) I feel strongly enough about it to have written a sexist, flippant, offensive post about it to raise a cheap giggle amongst lady forumites, I wouldn't feel strongly enough about it to make an issue of it with individual dancers on the dance floor. I knew there must be more graceful and witty ways of evading the move, as outlined so well by Lory.

Right. I'm off now to practise sassy, impatient, sexy moves in front of a mirror.

[Purple Sparkler]

about having to touch lard-mountain hips

At least you're putting your hands on the hips. The number of partners who've gotten that wrong in classes...

Actually the worst experience of this kind for me was being put into a comb by a horribly sleazy guy and being told "you can't move unless you wiggle". This was 5 years ago, and only when I took up Ceroc again after a break of 4-odd years was I told that you can actually push them away (all the pushing away advice on this thread from female forumites is excellent- and I agree wholeheartedly with Lory on what to do if the guy's attractive).

I don't mind doing the pushing away, in fact I think it's more fun and a good way of messing about with friends. But I have been known to resist sleazy moves from sleazy guys, using my best Dizzy English Tourist face (I call it that because it's the same one I used on a Vatican security guard to get let through a cordon so I could go round the Sistine Chapel again) to give an impression that I don't know the move. Before I get complained at by the men, I should point out that I would tell them 'I don't like that move', but in my experience the ones who you feel uncomfortable doing a particular move with are the ones who would just smirk at you if you said that. Most of the guys I dance with, however, are gentlemen when it comes to things like this.

[David Bailey]

But there is usually no convenient point in the dance where I can say " I don't like that move" - once it's led, it's led, and I have to respond appropriately or in some way that doesn't spoil the flow of the dance, which is why I asked for sabotage moves. And because I'd like to learn more ways of adding my own improvisations to the dance, anyway.

It's a problem for a follower, especially with the more subtle "invitation to play" moves, or moves you just don't like. Such as:
- Drops / Leans
- Seducers / UCP
- Aerials
- Twisty moves (tunnel, backhander)
In comparison to some of those, the chest-push is fairly harmless, in that you as a follower can control what you do, and the worst that happens is you feel a bit silly.

Also, although (apparently) I feel strongly enough about it to have written a sexist, flippant, offensive post about it to raise a cheap giggle amongst lady forumites

Yes - good work, keep it up.

Right. I'm off now to practise sassy, impatient, sexy moves in front of a mirror.

Ditto.

[MartinHarper]

The follower should follow a clear lead, otherwise anarchy will ensue...

I'll agree with that. Still, the guy sticking his chest out and/or pointing to it is a signal for a particular piece of styling, not a lead, which gives it a different character in my mind.

thunderbirds are go

[Lory]

thunderbirds are go

I laughed out loud when I looked at that pic! Yep, understand perfectly about the thundebird hands now!

[spindr]

as she averted her hands at the last instant and crashed into me with her bosom instead.

Well, there is a lead for that variation, but it's shrouded in secrecy

Personally, I think that the move's a little passé using uncrossed hands -- I think it's much more fun to lead for a single-handed move, or even from crossed hands -- as it makes it much more surprising

SpinDr.

[David Bailey]

Personally, I think that the move's a little passé using uncrossed hands -- I think it's much more fun to lead for a single-handed move, or even from crossed hands -- as it makes it much more surprising

Ah, I was thinking of the single-handed version myself - I forgot about the 2-handed version.

Yes, obviously two-handed uncrossed is passé, pah, these boring old farts, stuck in the 90's.... err....

[Bex]

I know I'm weird but this move always brings a smile to my face, it's sooo cheesy and funny

Have to agree with Lory on this, personally I don't have a problem with it and it does make me laugh, I haven't known any guy to do this move seriously.

As for guys not being able to lead the move so the ladies hands end up on their chest , I have danced with loads of guys who do this and it would be very difficult to sabotage even if I wanted to Try dancing with Simon R he does a cool version where he storms right towards you - there's no getting out of that one even when you leg it backwards!!

The worst move for me though is the Train I can't bear it - its so naff, as soon as the guy leads it and walks forward, I'm shuffling behind thinking please don't turn round and make me do a stupid walk thankfully this move is a lot easier to sabotage!!

[Jooles]

Oh Bex I sooooooooooo agree with you. I hate that move and feel so stupid doing it. didn't know it was called the train, but should have guessed. I think it's the only move I really dread doing. Not necessarily following him, but when he turns around and makes you do it. I'm cringing just thinking about it.

[Lory]

but when he turns around and makes you do it. I'm cringing just thinking about it.

I can do a very good Laurel and Hardy 'sand dance' when pushed!

[Jooles]

and does it put him off doing that move again? I might try it if it does?

[Purple Sparkler]

I can do a very good Laurel and Hardy 'sand dance' when pushed!

and does it put him off doing that move again? I might try it if it does?

Personally I'm hoping someone will try the move on her tonight so I can see the sand dance in action!

(And wasn't it Wilson, Kepple and Betty rather than Laurel and Hardy?)

[Bex]

I can do a very good Laurel and Hardy 'sand dance' when pushed!

Oh Lory, that's excellent, can just imagine it

[Mary]

I can do a very good Laurel and Hardy 'sand dance' when pushed!

Brilliant. I have to try this.

M

[Daisy Chain]

I can do a very good Laurel and Hardy 'sand dance' when pushed!

I find the Morecambe and Wise "Bring Me Sunshine" move always get a reaction in these embarrassing train situations (and I wonder why I find it such a struggle getting dance partners...)

Daisy

(A Sunny Little Flower)

[MartinHarper]

The worst move for me though is the Train I can't bear it - its so naff, as soon as the guy leads it and walks forward, I'm shuffling behind thinking please don't turn round and make me do a stupid walk

For me, this is one of the great paradoxes of Ceroc. On the one hand, I hear women lament how the guys are so controlling, and they never have any "play time". On the other hand, I hear women lament moves such as the train, which are basically one big excuse to play. Something's not right there.

Last I checked, nobody can make you do a stupid walk.

[Clive Long]

And another thing: If it's OK for ladies to talk about sweaty scrawny chests and atrophied pecs, does that mean I should complain - supposing it bothered me - about having to touch lard-mountain hips or wizened twisted old fingers ("ach") while I dance? Our bodies are whatever they are.

I'm sure I'm going to get into trouble for this ....

Yes it is perfectly alright for women to comment, sometimes negatively, about aspects of a man's physique.

Men make those comments about women pretty much all the time.

I will be bolder and assert that most men form most of their, OK let's be generous, initial opinion of a woman based on her looks.

Or maybe it's only the guys I hang out with. So what's sauce for goose etc. etc. cliche.

And no, a guy should not comment on a lady's appearance unless he finds some aspect of it genuinely appealing.

However, being the gentleman he is (no really) ESG would never write or say something derogatory about a lady's appearance even if he thought it.

So there.


Clive

P.S. to what Martin has written. You let go guys, ladies, it's your chance to play.

[El Salsero Gringo]

I'm sure I'm going to get into trouble for this ....

No, but I'm going to argue with you.

Yes it is perfectly alright for women to comment, sometimes negatively, about aspects of a man's physique.Men make those comments about women pretty much all the time.

Not the men I know. Point me, please, towards a post on the Forum where a man has complained about how dancing with a woman was unpleasant because she was fat, or had saggy breasts, or her jowls were hanging round her collar-bones?

I will be bolder and assert that most men form most of their, OK let's be generous, initial opinion of a woman based on her looks.

There's a big difference between saying what sort of body you *do* like to dance with and complaining about the ones that you don't. And there's a big difference between making a private judgement about what you find unattractive and giving a slagging for it in a public place.