Tests for Ceroc?

[bigdjiver]

The big turn off, for me, at the salsa classes I have attended was the grading structure. Everybody trying to get better meant that few were interested in dancing with, or helping , those of a lower grade. I ran into the same experience, but even worse, at the ballroom classes I attended. There are some nice people at all of them, but the ethos was definitely different, and I did not like it.

[El Salsero Gringo]

The big turn off, for me, at the salsa classes I have attended was the grading structure.

Some people like that kind of structure, and some don't. Given that Ceroc is billed as "the dance for those who can't dance", and that one of the things I (and possibly others reading and now contributing to this thread?) liked it so much at the start because it was judgement-free, no tests, no assessments, no gradings, just "get on with it".

I wouldn't like to jeopardise that feeling for recent beginners just because, a few years in, I now feel that *I* would get more out of intermediate classes if some of the "riff-raff" were encouraged (or forced) to stay in the beginners classes.

Come to that, there's nothing in the world stopping anyone who wants a teacher's assessment as to whether they should attend the intermediate classes from asking them *right now* for a dance with a view to getting a judgement. But I suspect that those in favour of testing have in mind that the intermediate classes would be better off without exactly those people who would never volunteer for such a test nor abide by its result should it find against them. So in order to have the desired effect you'd *have* to make the assessment compulsory, and enforce the outcome.

[Baruch]

I wouldn't like to jeopardise that feeling for recent beginners just because, a few years in, I now feel that *I* would get more out of intermediate classes if some of the "riff-raff" were encouraged (or forced) to stay in the beginners classes.

I don't think it's about that at all. It's more a case of people moving up to intermediate before they are ready. At the venue I attend there are a few dancers who moved up too soon and either can't follow a simple lead yet or, as in the case of one guy I know, finds the class so difficult to follow that he gets into all sorts of weird knots and ends up hurting some of the ladies.

It's not about keeping people out of the intermediate class until they're totally amazing, as very few people, if any, are great when they first start intermediate classes. I remember finding my first intermediate class quite hard, as it was quite a step up from beginners, and I'm sure I wasn't the easiest person there to dance with. However, I was safe to dance with, and I'd been told by one of the teachers from the beginners' revision class (our equivalent of taxi dancers) that I should join the intermediate class because I had the ability to do it.

IMO, the absolute minimum requirement for joining the intermediate class should be the ability to lead/follow all the beginner moves competently and safely. Not all those who make the step up are at that level, which can be dangerous both to them and to other dancers when attempting more complex moves. A degree of confidence when freestyling wouldn't go amiss either.

Come to that, there's nothing in the world stopping anyone who wants a teacher's assessment as to whether they should attend the intermediate classes from asking them *right now* for a dance with a view to getting a judgement.

Absolutely right. That's what I did when I moved up to intermediate. It might be a good idea to let people know that this facility is available for them though, rather than assuming they'll do it automatically. The idea just might not occur to some people.

But I suspect that those in favour of testing have in mind that the intermediate classes would be better off without exactly those people who would never volunteer for such a test nor abide by its result should it find against them. So in order to have the desired effect you'd *have* to make the assessment compulsory, and enforce the outcome.

I don't know where you get that idea from. You make it sound like an elitist conspiracy.

[El Salsero Gringo]

IMO, the absolute minimum requirement for joining the intermediate class should be the ability to lead/follow all the beginner moves competently and safely. Not all those who make the step up are at that level, which can be dangerous both to them and to other dancers when attempting more complex moves. A degree of confidence when freestyling wouldn't go amiss either.

Many things wouldn't go amiss, but I think people should do the intermediate class when *they* are ready to benefit from it. I think you're setting the bar too high, especially in terms of lead-and-follow, the appreciation of which (even for the beginners moves) benefits greatly from experience of how intermediate moves vary from their basic counterparts.

On the safety aspect: if someone is a danger to their fellow dancers, then - with all due respect - the question of whether they should be permitted to attend an intermediate class is entirely beside the point. If they're dangerous and hurting people they shouldn't be attending even a beginner's class. I don't accept that you need to learn to be safe on the beginners moves before moving up, because people should be safe (or be instructed how to be safe) right from day 1.

It might be a good idea to let people know that this facility is available for them though, rather than assuming they'll do it automatically. The idea just might not occur to some people.

You're right - the teacher could mention this at the time when they introduce the taxi-dancers.

I don't know where you get that idea from. You make it sound like an elitist conspiracy.

Not a conspiracy, just a natural consequence. If Mr. (or Mrs.) Don't-give-a-sh*t-that-I'm-breaking-my-partners-arms wants to attend an intermediate class, I'd say they were likely to be Mr. (or Mrs.) Don't-give-a-sh*t-about-taking-any-tests too.

[ducasi]

...

Come to that, there's nothing in the world stopping anyone who wants a teacher's assessment as to whether they should attend the intermediate classes from asking them *right now* for a dance with a view to getting a judgement. But I suspect that those in favour of testing have in mind that the intermediate classes would be better off without exactly those people who would never volunteer for such a test nor abide by its result should it find against them. So in order to have the desired effect you'd *have* to make the assessment compulsory, and enforce the outcome.

Can I clarify my point of view, in case it's misunderstood.

I can ask a teacher right now but typically I'll (hopefully) get back "quite good" or "doing well" or something like that. If I go back in a few month's time it'll (again hopefully) be "much better" or "definitely improved". But I really don't know what these actually mean.

I personally would like a uniform grading structure so that I can get an objective measure of my progress. If a teacher can say to me now "Intermediate 1", that would mean something. If in a few months time they said "Intermediate 2", again by knowing the grading structure I'd know I'd improved and by how much.

As for the beginners to intermediate thing, I was grateful for a teacher's advice that I was ready and I think it would be good if everyone sought out a teacher or taxi dancer and asked them what they thought. I have been surprised at the haste in which others move up, but I wouldn't make anyone pass any test first.

But if there were a grading system, it'd make sense for it to include beginners and they'd be wise to use it.

I guess if people are so set on improving their grades that they won't want to dance with the lower classes, then a good fix would be to include in the grading scheme "the ability to dance well with all grades". Then they'd have to dance with us lesser mortals. I now think it's important if you want to be a good dancer to dance with a wide range of abilities – I didn't used to, and I hope I never change my mind again on this.

Basically, I think a grading scheme could exist which would help and motivate people who want to improve their dance, without having an adverse affect on the others who don't want to take part in it.

How easy it would be to create and implement and how it would ultimately affect the bottom line is a different matter.

[Yliander]

As someone who does actually have to assess and clear people so that they can do intermediate classes - if handled correctly it really isn't that big of a deal.

When this system was implemented at the beginning of this year we started issuing yelow "consolidation cards" to all beginners these cards contain a list of 12 base moves and 4 fundamental techniques, as well as a place for the teacher doing the assessment to sign an date thus entiling the student to a their first intermediate lesson for half price.

We advise all students of the system in place and encourage them to follow that path but it is not enforced in a major way. Some students choose to self promote and miss out on the discounted class - but most are happy to follow the system.

The assessment takes the format of a simple freestyle dance with an instructor - once the dance is over we either say well done & sign off their card or well done but/however you need to spend a couple more weeks in consolidation/beginners and focus on the following elements being tension, lead, follow etc usually give them some exercises they can use and advise them that if a move in class is a repeat for them to focus on the finer details of the moves.

We focus on it as way for them to ensure that they enjoy and get the most out of the intermediate class.

Currently we are trying to convince 3 students that they are ready to move up but they aren't so sure - makes a change from having to convince someone that they will be a better dancer for spending more time in consolidation

[David Bailey]

As someone who does actually have to assess and clear people so that they can do intermediate classes - if handled correctly it really isn't that big of a deal.

{ snip excellent procedural description }

Can I just repeat, I believe Ceroc UK could learn a lot from some of the Australian practices - it sounds like we're backwards in this area here in the UK, at least from a standardised-practice way. It works, they do it, it's not a big deal, why shouldn't we follow their, err, lead?

Casting my mind back to when I stepped up, I do remember it being a Big Deal to do the intermediate class - certainly I waited much longer than the recommended (then) 6 weeks, probably more than 12 weeks, simply because I had no idea whether I was ready to move up. I for one would have appreciated some guidance at that time to help me decide.

[El Salsero Gringo]

... why shouldn't we follow their, err, lead?

For all the reasons already given in this and other threads! Ceroc UK doesn't have a culture of testing. UK Ceroc instructors aren't graded into four levels either. You can't take one aspect of another school of dance and transplant it here as easily as you think, and you have no idea what the social atmosphere of Ceroc in Australia is, either. (Nor do I, for that matter.) It might very well be younger, more competitive, (more like the typical Salsa crowd) and so more receptive to pressure to raise standards than Ceroc in the UK.

Casting my mind back to when I stepped up, I do remember it being a Big Deal to do the intermediate class - certainly I waited much longer than the recommended (then) 6 weeks, probably more than 12 weeks, simply because I had no idea whether I was ready to move up. I for one would have appreciated some guidance at that time to help me decide.

Did it do you any harm to wait? Clearly not. You moved up when you were confident that you were ready. Just what is the problem you are trying to fix by arranging tests in Ceroc?

[MartinHarper]

As for the beginners to intermediate thing, I was grateful for a teacher's advice that I was ready and I think it would be good if everyone sought out a teacher or taxi dancer and asked them what they thought.

Good point. When folks murmur to me about whether they should move up, I'll try to point them at a teacher, rather than inflicting my own opinion on them.

[Yliander]

For all the reasons already given in this and other threads! Ceroc UK doesn't have a culture of testing. UK Ceroc instructors aren't graded into four levels either. You can't take one aspect of another school of dance and transplant it here as easily as you think, and you have no idea what the social atmosphere of Ceroc in Australia is, either. (Nor do I, for that matter.) It might very well be younger, more competitive, (more like the typical Salsa crowd) and so more receptive to pressure to raise standards than Ceroc in the UK.

Just to clarify, testing/assessing/cleaering of beginners is something that is only done at CerocPerth (as far as I am aware at least), our students range in age from 16 to 60+ they are not particularly competitive - infact I would say that they are rather non-competitive we have had to work rather hard to get them to have a go at competition we have running this weekend.

Australia doesn't really have a 'culture of testing" - I believe we have a culture of competency

Teachers over hear are defined by the level of class they teach ie consolidation, beginners, intermediate or advanced - generally a teacher has progressed up the through the various levels expanding their skills, teaching and dance experience as they go.

Did it do you any harm to wait? Clearly not. You moved up when you were confident that you were ready. Just what is the problem you are trying to fix by arranging tests in Ceroc?

the problem we were aiming to fix was not those of people who hang out in beginners for an extended period of time but was the one of the over confident students who think they are ready for intermediate when in fact they aren't - they spoil not only other peoples experience but some also come crashing down to reality and are never seen again and in extreme cases can be damaging to other dancers - Yli remembers a damaged shoulder from over confident self promoted beginner in an intermediate class trying to lead a pretzel and getting it horribly wrong

[Gadget]

the problem we were aiming to fix {is}the over confident students who think they are ready for intermediate when in fact they aren't

They aren't ready for what? What exactly is different from beginners to intermediates? The moves are a bit more complex and there is more to remember, but the same "problems" occur in the 'beginner's class', you just have less of the experienced dancers to in it. Let's keep all the poor leading and following in the beginner's classes where they can only injure themselves.

What is the difference? The moves are smaller and give the basics for the other "intermediate" moves so that there is some familiarity in them. But a move is a move is a move: If someone thought that they picked up the moves from the beginner class with ease, then why not try the intermediate class?
Most of the "work" to bring a dancer from 'novice' to 'intermediate' level is done from workshops, taxis and their own experience. The actual classes only provide some general instruction, guidance and a 'core' of moves (/movements). The skills of leading and following are too individual - it is hard to teach anything beyond the basics in a feeling, physical, tactile skill by using completely separate audio and visual senses. Especially on a broad selection of people and learning ability levels.

I think that the best solution to the above problem does not lie in the creation of barriers and levels to judge people at; drawing lines in the sand creates a 'them' and 'us' mentality from both sides that both segregates and prejudices.
By testing/assessing/judging/evaluating/whatever the dancers, you are banding a sliding scale. If a dancer wants to know where they are on a scale, then take advice from teachers, taxis and fellow dancers. Enter a competition. Making this banding obligatory and using it in an "official" manor for entrance and qualification is closing the door to the social dancer who doesn't care and just wants to dance.

I think a more ideal solution to having poorer beginners moving up is to have better beginners. How does a dancer get better? Dances with better dancers. I would prefer to see better dancers in the beginner's class - I think this solution has a lot more positives and fewer negatives than introducing a political class system.

You want to see how bad a dancer I am? Dance with me.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Australia doesn't really have a 'culture of testing" - I believe we have a culture of competency

... that's already quite different from my impression of at least some of the (most) successful Ceroc nights that I know here in London. I don't mean to belittle our standards in the UK, or to mock Ceroc in Australia for being obsessed with ticking off lists of skills and making judgements about others. I've never been to Ceroc in Australia, but David Franklin (hope he doesn't mind me cross-quoting him) has and this is what he says:

Looking at the parent thread about testing, one thing that hasn't been brought up with regards to Australia is that from my experiences in Sydney, at any rate, the beginners class is considerably more difficult than it is here - the class did pretzels and leans, for example. So having tests to go into intermediate in Australia is more akin to tests for advanced over here. And I think there's a much clearer motivation for testing at that point. It means they are able to teach the intermediate class in a way that would have people dropping like flies over here! [I recall a very crowded class in Mosman, where a deep seducer-type drop was taught. The only reason there was space was because everyone did it in sync - a bit like domino-toppling except we all got up again! Not sure I approve of that under any circumstances, but it would have been crazy to even consider it in the UK].

I don't think that Australian experiences carry over to the UK because I don't think you're comparing like with like.

The problem we were aiming to fix was not those of people who hang out in beginners for an extended period of time but was the one of the over confident students who think they are ready for intermediate when in fact they aren't - they spoil not only other peoples experience but some also come crashing down to reality and are never seen again and in extreme cases can be damaging to other dancers - Yli remembers a damaged shoulder from over confident self promoted beginner in an intermediate class trying to lead a pretzel and getting it horribly wrong

Acknowledging that you had an issue, and that you've found a way that suits your system to fix it, I remain throughly sceptical that the same solution would work without changing the ethos of Ceroc (for the worse) or even, in fact, that there's a problem that needs fixing.

[bigdjiver]

From time to time we have visitors to our beginners class who are going to have a problem learning anything. Are we going to "fail" them,and ban them from a class? We do have beginner moves that involve twisting a ladies arm behind her back.

I think that we have to leave compentency decisions to the adults that attend the class rather than any formal procedure. The ethos of Ceroc, in my experience, is that sufficient friendly support and guidance is available within the structure and peer group to give the necessary advice. The downside of having the teacher do it is that the peer group will start to believe that it is "not their place" to advise, and leaving problems to fester until the teacher picks them up.

("Advise" includes advice on giving advice i.e. dancers self-regulation.)

[Lynn]

After reading this page I guess what they were doing was a Summative Assessment, and what I'm thinking of is a Formative Assessment.

Yep - that's the difference - the main aim of formative assessment is to provide the learner with feedback on their progress.

I've just submitted an assignment (amongst others) on summative and formative assessment on a course I teach - hope I've passed!

[David Franklin]

I remain throughly sceptical that the same solution would work without changing the ethos of Ceroc (for the worse) or even, in fact, that there's a problem that needs fixing.

The thing I'd like us to consider taking from Australia is having a more demanding beginners class (or possibly an improvers class, but that might be logistically difficult). The reason is not so much "so they don't pollute the intermediate class", but because the beginners get so much better teaching (with direct help from the taxi-dancers ); it seems a shame not to make the most of that by taking things further than current "6 beginners classes". It's all very well talking about frame, tension and compression, but it's very different getting literal hands-on feedback from a trained taxi-dancer.

Conversely, it seems the intermediate class not only has to span a very large range of abilities, but there's relatively little help given. I think the 'consolidation' classes for beginners are a great thing, but it does mean the taxi-dancers aren't there during the intermediate class. Which means not only can they not help during the class, but they may not be able to help after the class either. In contrast, when I started doing intermediate classes, I know I got a lot of help from the taxi-dancers.

In terms of "testing" and "safety", I don't think there's much of a problem with current intermediate classes, although I must say I'm uncomfortable at the idea of someone doing 6 beginners classes and learning a seducer, or a backhander, or a Columbian. (I'd think less than 1% of beginner-intermediates would manage a Columbian, but on t'other hand it's not particularly dangerous). Without any form of testing/segregation, that's probably about as far as you can go with moves that are potentially dangerous though - I've not seen a ballroom drop taught even moderately well in a standard MJ class.

There's also the question of spoiling the class for others. Currently a lot of people can do the intermediate class standing on their head, so if they get a beginner or two, it's no biggie, they can usually help the beginner, and it doesn't totally disrupt their learning experience. But if you start trying to have more difficult classes, you have a lot fewer people who can "manage" with a beginner, and a lot more people who are left struggling. The beginner probably doesn't have much fun either!

[El Salsero Gringo]

The thing I'd like us to consider taking from Australia is having a more demanding beginners class (or possibly an improvers class, but that might be logistically difficult). The reason is not so much "so they don't pollute the intermediate class", but because the beginners get so much better teaching (with direct help from the taxi-dancers );

David,

In what way is the teaching better? How do the taxi-dancers help more? In what ways should the beginners classes be more demanding? Is the difference compatible with the emphasis of UK Ceroc as "fun and easy to learn"? Maybe I'm just seeing things, but the UK website www.ceroc.com seems to place more emphasis on getting people off the ground with some kind of dance (in its loosest definition) whereas the two Australian sites www.cerocaustralia.com.au and www.ceroc.com.au don't, and I wonder if this is evidence of a cultural difference between the two. It strikes me that you're in an ideal position to judge since you've seen both systems at work.

[David Bailey]

Just what is the problem you are trying to fix by arranging tests in Ceroc?

Good question (don't you just hate those?).

OK, my motivation is a feeling that many intermediate classes have more "problems" than beginners' classes.

The single criteria of "12 weeks' classes", I believe, may constrain many teachers in what they teach. Because they may have a lack of confidence in the ability of a class, or clarity about that level of ability, means that most teachers will go down the safe route.

So, to use a previous example, most teachers won't teach the Columbian, as they know their class may hash it up (of course, the superb teachers and demonstrators will breeze through that move with style )

Some more structure and information about the levels of pupils in a class could help teachers target the classes more appropriately.

This may well also be an argument for having more "levels", I know, but I believe assessments could help. if done right, to promote a minimum standard for intermediate classes. This could lead to better classes, with less problems for dancer and teacher, and of course eventually World Peace.

Or not.

It's just a suggestion, and could I admit go horribly wrong:

The big turn off, for me, at the salsa classes I have attended was the grading structure. Everybody trying to get better meant that few were interested in dancing with, or helping , those of a lower grade. I ran into the same experience, but even worse, at the ballroom classes I attended.

That's a very good contra-argument, I'd certainly not want to see that in MJ...

[David Franklin]

In what way is the teaching better? How do the taxi-dancers help more?

I think perhaps I was unclear - I was talking about the UK teaching of beginner v.s. intermediate. In other words, we teach UK beginners better than UK intermediates, because UK beginners get much more direct feedback and guidance (from taxi-dancers) than intermediates (who don't get help from the taxis). I wasn't comparing against the Australian taxi-dancers, and although individual dancers were very helpful (Gary ), I don't actually recall whether they even had taxi-dancers at the classes I visited. Does that make more sense?

In what ways should the beginners classes be more demanding? Is the difference compatible with the emphasis of UK Ceroc as "fun and easy to learn"?

I'm not sure I really saw enough to answer this (I only did 2 or 3 classes). Let me describe the class first:

The beginners class I went was about the same as an easy-ish UK intermediate class. It contained a pretzel (or variation thereof) and a basket lean, and had about 6 or 7 moves in total. The teaching was faster paced than over here, with a lot less padding - there was maybe 3 seconds pause between getting your next partner and practising the move with her. The result was a lot more repetitions of each move in a given period of time.

I remember at the time being quite surprised what was being taught to the beginners, and particularly that it was taught with relatively little time spent on explanation compared with the UK. However, everyone seemed happy and I didn't notice anyone having any trouble with it. That's the key point - if you can teach more complex moves, leans etc. in a beginners class and have everyone follow them, I can't really see any downside. But it did surprise me that everyone did so well, and I'm not really sure why they did. Maybe we underestimate our beginners. A more complex possible explanation is cultural - I think dancers there are quicker to jump in and give advice than we are over here. (Not because we're unfriendly in the UK, but because our MJ culture is less judgemental, so people tend not to give advice/corrections unless asked for them).

Where you did see a bigger difference was in the intermediate class. It was expected people knew how to do drops (i.e. taking/supporting weight). There were lots of moves with footwork, without the "Don't panic everyone - footwork coming up. But we'll explain it really s l o w l y..." routine you usually have over here. But, as counterpoint, I didn't get one of the footwork moves, and to be honest, I wasn't really sure how I was supposed to get it. To explain further, I had maybe 2 minutes of being taught it, and after that was just desparately faking it to try not to upset my partner too much. I didn't get far enough to remember it, or practise it, so I'm not sure how I would have got better at it.

As a more general comment on the speed of teaching, for the intermediate class, a lot of the learning seemed to come from the other students rather than the teacher. By the time the teacher stopped explaining, it seemed only a very few people had it down pat, but during the rotations and repetitions, gradually we would all 'evolve' to doing the correct move. Again - I'm not totally sure how this worked; one thing was definitely that people are a lot more ready to give comments and advice over there!

Maybe I'm just seeing things, but the UK website www.ceroc.com seems to place more emphasis on getting people off the ground with some kind of dance (in its loosest definition) whereas the two Australian sites www.cerocaustralia.com.au and www.ceroc.com.au don't, and I wonder if this is evidence of a cultural difference between the two.

I think there is a bit of a difference; it's probably true to say they are a bit more competitive, and we are a little more "doesn't matter how you dance as long as you enjoy yourself". But I don't think the difference is actually as big as you'd think from the websites. To be honest, it's www.ceroc.com that is a bit of an outlier - this forum isn't terribly different from the Australian one.

[El Salsero Gringo]

I remember at the time being quite surprised what was being taught to the beginners, and particularly that it was taught with relatively little time spent on explanation compared with the UK. However, everyone seemed happy and I didn't notice anyone having any trouble with it. That's the key point - if you can teach more complex moves, leans etc. in a beginners class and have everyone follow them, I can't really see any downside. But it did surprise me that everyone did so well, and I'm not really sure why they did. Maybe we underestimate our beginners.

And maybe, just maybe, Australians who would have liked to learn Ceroc a bit slower like we do here in the UK and have decided they don't want to be confused and humiliated by the fast pace of the beginner's classes there have just stopped attending...

I think there is a bit of a difference; it's probably true to say they are a bit more competitive, and we are a little more "doesn't matter how you dance as long as you enjoy yourself". But I don't think the difference is actually as big as you'd think from the websites. To be honest, it's www.ceroc.com that is a bit of an outlier - this forum isn't terribly different from the Australian one.

And we all know how well this forum represents the notional average Ceroc (UK) customer, don't we?

I'd say that the different emphases from the companies promoting the dance (if I'm not imagining it) encourages a different kind of customer. And that's why I don't think it's reasonable to extrapolate from the Australian experience of introducing tests for intermediate classes.

[David Franklin]

And maybe, just maybe, Australians who would have liked to learn Ceroc a bit slower like we do here in the UK and have decided they don't want to be confused and humiliated by the fast pace of the beginner's classes there have just stopped attending...

Of course, it's hard to prove a negative. But the class was very busy, and (as memory serves) some people were definitely there for the first time. There were definitely the "nervous giggles" with the pretzel and lean which you get when people are thinking "ooh - that looks hard". And I really didn't notice anyone having significant trouble with the class.

we all know how well this forum represents the notional average Ceroc (UK) customer, don't we?

Yes we do. But then most dance sites are largely, if not entirely, aimed at the enthusiasts. The main Ceroc site is by far the most 'corporate' dance website I've seen.

I'd say that the different emphases from the companies promoting the dance (if I'm not imagining it) encourages a different kind of customer. And that's why I don't think it's reasonable to extrapolate from the Australian experience of introducing tests for intermediate classes.

Having been there, I'd say you're wrong about different customer bases. Or at least, the differences are not terribly significant. Probably more significant to your point about tests is I'd say they are much more culturally open to taking and giving criticism. My point was less about tests and more about making better use of the unique learning opportunity we give to beginners (with the close tuition from the taxi-dancers), but for what it's worth, my preference for managing "testing" would be be for beginners to be told not to go up to the intermediate class until a taxi-dancer or teacher tells them to. I don't think there should be a particular "assessment" - a decent taxi-dancer should be able to tell from what happens in the class and/or freestyle.