Team Cabarets

[Easter Bunny]

First of all (not just to show this thread is not 'just sour grapes' so to speak) - Well Done to Black Magic at the Ceroc Champs on Sunday. Their performance was excellent, different (with the pyrotechnics etc.,) and exciting.

My beef is, I thought team cabarets were to include different shapes, partner changing, larger number of dancers (i.e more than 3 couples ?). In fact recent advice from a 'judge' was to arrange costumes in a way to 'show up' shapes and different formations.

One of the hardest aspects of being involved in a team cabaret is the number of people involved, not just from a dancing point of view, i.e keeping in time, positions in shape format etc., but the sheer logistics of trying to get everyone together at the same time for practice and performance.

When there are just three couples involved, this makes the effort much easier, in fact, the couples could even practice separately to the track and only get together very occasionally if they are going to maintain the same positions throughout the performance.

This results in great entertainment value I admit, and that's what we saw on the day, but in my mind, it's not a team cabaret.

Once again this is not a moan about who gave the better performance on the day, but the basic rule of what constitutes a team cabaret.

I have probably opened the floodgates here for some stick, but would be interested to hear other people's views on this.

[stewart38]

First of all (not just to show this thread is not 'just sour grapes' so to speak) - Well Done to Black Magic at the Ceroc Champs on Sunday. Their performance was excellent, different (with the pyrotechnics etc.,) and exciting.

My beef is, I thought team cabarets were to include different shapes, partner changing, larger number of dancers (i.e more than 3 couples ?). In fact recent advice from a 'judge' was to arrange costumes in a way to 'show up' shapes and different formations.

One of the hardest aspects of being involved in a team cabaret is the number of people involved, not just from a dancing point of view, i.e keeping in time, positions in shape format etc., but the sheer logistics of trying to get everyone together at the same time for practice and performance.

When there are just three couples involved, this makes the effort much easier, in fact, the couples could even practice separately to the track and only get together very occasionally if they are going to maintain the same positions throughout the performance.

This results in great entertainment value I admit, and that's what we saw on the day, but in my mind, it's not a team cabaret.

Once again this is not a moan about who gave the better performance on the day, but the basic rule of what constitutes a team cabaret.

I have probably opened the floodgates here for some stick, but would be interested to hear other people's views on this.

Totally agree. The larger groups had more people out of sinc but your going to get that with greater nos

[Dreadful Scathe]

My beef is, I thought team cabarets were to include different shapes, partner changing, larger number of dancers (i.e more than 3 couples ?). In fact recent advice from a 'judge' was to arrange costumes in a way to 'show up' shapes and different formations.

Im sure what the judge said was true..IF you have different 'shapes' to show, but you dont necessarily have to.

The numbers stated in the Team rules say 3 couples minimum (correct me If im wrong here) so its quite clear what they mean by a team cabaret.

Also, I'd say the bigger team has a distinct advantage, because if they do manage to synchronise well with more couples they would always get more points for it then a 3 couple team who also synchronise well.

in fact, the couples could even practice separately to the track and only get together very occasionally if they are going to maintain the same positions throughout the performance.

Any team can do this with decent planning. We did for ours and we had 8 couples. Also, Im sure the team that won the ceroc champs a few years ago was made up of two groups that only performed together on the day.

[Graham]

Also, Im sure the team that won the ceroc champs a few years ago was made up of two groups that only performed together on the day.

Actually (you know how I hate to be pedantic) they were only runners-up. However as it happens I think that particular year also demonstrates your other point - the team which one had IIRC nine couples and had extremely good synchronisation and I think that's what won them it over a technically more demanding performance from the 4-couple runners-up team.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Actually (you know how I hate to be pedantic) [ more words ] the team which one had

one what ?

Pedants R us

[Graham]

one what ?

Pedants R us

Okay guv, it's a fair cop.

[Young Jiver]

This is the first time that I have ever been on the Ceroc Forum, and it is great. I have loved reading what you all have had to say about things.

I hope I don't get addicted, as I have heard many people are, any tips?

I had a great time on Sunday at the champs and cannot wait until next year. In relation to the team cabaret section of the competition it seems to me that if you increase on quantity, then there is an automatic decrease in quality, and it is a dance competition after all!

Further, I think that if there are less dancers in a team, any mistakes will show up so much more, there is no where to hide in a team of 3.

Finally, where on earth did those masks and sticks go??????

I am still wondering!

[Lindsay]

One of the hardest aspects of being involved in a team cabaret is the number of people involved, not just from a dancing point of view, i.e keeping in time, positions in shape format etc., but the sheer logistics of trying to get everyone together at the same time for practice and performance.

There should definitely be brownie points for sheer effort in co-ordinating large groups [and bonus points for xxxxxx xxxxxxxx] I guess you're judged on complexity of dance moves, use of floor, TIMING (the most important IMO), presentation, creativity and originality. Smaller teams could easily attain all of the above, but may need to work harder on formations as they may not make so much of an impact as with larger teams.

[jivecat]

I hope I don't get addicted, as I have heard many people are, any tips?

Yes, switch your computer off immediately, NOW, and burn it.

[JCat]

First of all (not just to show this thread is not 'just sour grapes' so to speak) - Well Done to Black Magic at the Ceroc Champs on Sunday. Their performance was excellent, different (with the pyrotechnics etc.,) and exciting.

My beef is, I thought team cabarets were to include different shapes, partner changing, larger number of dancers (i.e more than 3 couples ?). In fact recent advice from a 'judge' was to arrange costumes in a way to 'show up' shapes and different formations.

One of the hardest aspects of being involved in a team cabaret is the number of people involved, not just from a dancing point of view, i.e keeping in time, positions in shape format etc., but the sheer logistics of trying to get everyone together at the same time for practice and performance.

When there are just three couples involved, this makes the effort much easier, in fact, the couples could even practice separately to the track and only get together very occasionally if they are going to maintain the same positions throughout the performance.

This results in great entertainment value I admit, and that's what we saw on the day, but in my mind, it's not a team cabaret.

Once again this is not a moan about who gave the better performance on the day, but the basic rule of what constitutes a team cabaret.

I have probably opened the floodgates here for some stick, but would be interested to hear other people's views on this.

As a member of one of the larger teams there on Sunday, I am not sure I quite agree. Yes, it is a complete logistical nightmare to try and get everyone together at the same time to practice, but at the end of the day you are not marked in a competition on the fact that because you have a larger team its more difficult to get together! I also think the amount of couples for sunday was limited to 10? Which is not as many as some of the teams out there may well have. (I would also like to just say its hard to do arials with a large team in such a confined space, there is much more scope for collision!!! )

Formations and partner changing are, however, all part of a team cabaret, and with six people, that's going to be much more difficult - after all there is only so much you can do with fewer people. The challenge, when you have less people, is to do something to make up for the fact that you CAN'T do as much clever stuff with partners and formations - and I think that is exactly what we saw on Sunday, what do you think?

[bigdjiver]

Welcome Young Jiver.

... In relation to the team cabaret section of the competition it seems to me that if you increase on quantity, then there is an automatic decrease in quality, and it is a dance competition after all!
...

Busby Berkeley?

It is a Team Cabaret section, there is no actual requirement for any formation dancing, although it would be expected. It is possible to imagine a theme, such as a wedding or a circus, where all of the dancers expressed their different roles and personalities by different interpretations of the music. Such a performance can be carried by the stars, and nobody will be paying too much attention to most of the work of the bit players.

[Easter Bunny]

Actually (you know how I hate to be pedantic) they were only runners-up.

Uh ??

Black Magic (who I was referring to) had 6 people (3 couples) and came 1st
and Dancelicious had 9 couples and were runners up

I think ?

[Dreadful Scathe]

Uh ??

Black Magic (who I was referring to) had 6 people (3 couples) and came 1st
and Dancelicious had 9 couples and were runners up

I think ?

....we were talking about the Ceroc Champs a few years ago - pay attention

Thats the problem with Easter Bunnies - its all go, go, go when you have eggs to deliver but now Easters passed...no idea whats going on.

Anyway - was Dancelicious the Kylie routine from Blackpool ?

[Easter Bunny]

....we were talking about the Ceroc Champs a few years ago - pay attention

Thats the problem with Easter Bunnies - its all go, go, go when you have eggs to deliver but now Easters passed...no idea whats going on.


Sorry - this bunny is still tired from Sunday, never mind Easter!


Anyway - was Dancelicious the Kylie routine from Blackpool ?

Yes - it was the Kylie routine - only with slightly few numbers to comply with the maximumum allowed at Hammersmith.

One or two people commented on the day that it was an exact rip off from Kylie's video, but as I have never seen Kylie's video - I could not comment on this.

[JCat]

Yes - it was the Kylie routine - only with slightly few numbers to comply with the maximumum allowed at Hammersmith.

One or two people commented on the day that it was an exact rip off from Kylie's video, but as I have never seen Kylie's video - I could not comment on this.

I am afraid it was not a rip off from the Kylie routine - watch it and see!!!!

[Retread]

Black Magic is the combination of Ceroc Surrey's Ewell crew, past and present: Karen, Glen and Paul (now running their own venue in Romford, Essex) and Boba, Keelan and Charlotte, who are the current luminaries at Bourne Hall, Ewell.

These guys are awesome, believe me. . . . . . .

Retread.

[Easter Bunny]

Black Magic is the combination of Ceroc Surrey's Ewell crew, past and present: Karen, Glen and Paul (now running their own venue in Romford, Essex) and Boba, Keelan and Charlotte, who are the current luminaries at Bourne Hall, Ewell.

These guys are awesome, believe me. . . . . . .

Retread.

I never said otherwise. It was just a general comment on what constituted a team cabaret as I was in some confusion about it as previously had only seen 'large' groups doing team cabarets in competition.

[Easter Bunny]

I am afraid it was not a rip off from the Kylie routine - watch it and see!!!!

Fair enoughsky

[Magic Hans]

There should definitely be brownie points for sheer effort in co-ordinating large groups [and bonus points for xxxxxx xxxxxxxx] I guess you're judged on complexity of dance moves, use of floor, TIMING (the most important IMO), presentation, creativity and originality. Smaller teams could easily attain all of the above, but may need to work harder on formations as they may not make so much of an impact as with larger teams.

Not only is there the extra difficulty, but also some compromise has to be on the skill and ability of the dancers. I remember watching a three couple (mexico styles, I think) routine up in blackpool a few years ago. Unless I am mistaken, which really is quite likely!! Most of the team members were (or had been) instructors. Compare that with Dundee's "Chicago" team (again a few years back), with it's ten or so couples, props (hats and doors), and costume change. Somewhat more challenging in my humble opinion.

Then again, that's the story with judging, it is, at the end of the day, a set of opinions .... hopefully from recognised and respected dancers and ex-dancers.

Personally were I be in competition, I'd be reassured if judges were obliged to provide scores, and comments for their judgements [even if anonymous]. Such openness puts everyone in the picture, and demands that judges take ownership and responsibility for their actions.

Ian

[Dreadful Scathe]

I remember watching a three couple (mexico styles, I think) routine up in blackpool a few years ago. Unless I am mistaken, which really is quite likely!! Most of the team members were (or had been) instructors.

It was Amir, Clayton, Graham LeClerc (sp? ) and respected partners I believe. Being blind and stupid, I may be wrong . They were not placed with that routine for some reason.

Compare that with Dundee's "Chicago" team (again a few years back), with it's ten or so couples, props (hats and doors), and costume change. Somewhat more challenging in my humble opinion.

Yeah many years back that was....cough....how fast does time travel on your world ? id agree anyway, more couples make it harder and when done well it looks fantastic.