"Teach" is not a noun!

[Zebra Woman]

Hey, cool new Avatar there, where did you get it from

And yours David.....

Very ...er

'Morris'/'Riverdance' ?

Notice you are giving her some hip leads

[Rhythm King]

Hey, cool new Avatar there, where did you get it from

I couldn't possibly say
Ask NG - oh, you already have

[David Bailey]

And yours David.....

Hey, that's a latin couple, it says so in the description, I quote "Latin dance couple".

So there - if it says it on the interweb, it must be true.

[Northants Girly]

I couldn't possibly say
Ask NG - oh, you already have

Oh dear what HAVE I done?

[Zebra Woman]

Hey, that's a latin couple, it says so in the description, I quote "Latin dance couple".


So there - if it says it on the interweb, it must be true.

Yeah right

And which 'Latin Dance' demands that the Lady's knees are kept at least a foot apart while she dances?

Remind me not to go to THAT styling class

Hey! Has she got 2lb of spuds stored in the front of her dress? Very disturbing the way it's swingin' .

[El Salsero Gringo]

Hey, cool new Avatar there, where did you get it from

I'm sure I recognise that red dress dress - isn't that Clive Long in a wig? Is there something you're not telling us?

[Zebra Woman]

I'm sure I recognise that red dress dress - isn't that Clive Long in a wig? Is there something you're not telling us?

B******...he's two timing you ESG !!!

I think it was the 'Tardis Trousers' and the potential for space travel that attracted him....mostly

[Whitebeard]

THIS IS NOT A DIG AT ANYONE.

May I please ask that posters spare a thought for those of us who were taught in what is now often regarded as "the old fashioned way".

I CANNOT understand the meaning (see what I'm doing here) of anything written in textspeak.

I CANNOT (easily) understand the meaning of a post if an incorrect word eg there/their/they're is used.

I CANNOT (easily) understand the meaning of a post without punctuation.

REPEAT, this is NOT a dig, merely a statement of fact that I suspect may reflect the views of a few fellow posters.

I find the use of incorrect words, as above, offensive (yes I'm really saying offensive ) to my eyes and if the post is long, I am very unlikely to persevere with it.......in order to understand the meaning of the post....it's just too much like hard work!

REPEAT, this is NOT a dig, merely a mention that some of us out here will NOT BE ABLE to understand the meaning of a post unless it is written in a form with which we are conversant. Perhaps this is our failing.......perhaps it isn't.

I'm with you there Chicklet. The teaching of English went through a very bad period where it was deemed that a child's ability to express theirself should not be constrained by matters grammatic or spelletic. The consequence: a generation who are essentially semi-literate and who now hold posts of responsibility.

I did not learn grammar. I absorbed it through it through the material I read so avidly in my youth. Even newspapers were well written - not so any more. Never mind your/you're, what about may/might, and whatever happened to collective nouns???

That's the downside, and I've surrendered. My bleatings (echoes of sheepman) aren't going to achieve anything. The upside is that ladies have been liberated and become assertive; they approach, .....request a dance. Wow !!!, am I suddenly desirable - or is it that the ladies are getting desperate.

No matter, go with the flow, enjoy ,.....

[Clive Long]

<< cut >>
Oh dear .... here we go again!!

In the red corner, the accuracy-ists, pedants and correctionists.

In the blue corner, those who care more about getting the message across, and less about it's syntax.
<< cut >>

Send the hate mail my way.

Well I'm in the red corner mainly because the people there own the blue corner territory.

What I mean is that if the grammar and spelling are "somewhat" standard in your writing you are actually more likely to get your message across than if you are more "creative" in the way you write, simply because people can follow what you have written.

Yes, yes, yes, language is evolving and eveyone "owns" their version of the language, that's why we enjoy reading different writers.

But for me, to everything that Chicklet wrote (now there's a surprise). to Martin for criticising and correcting so publicly. It came across as very high-handed, although I feel he wrote with the best of intentions.

Pointing out that a post is difficult to disentangle because it has no recognisable structure is probably going to be hurtful to some people.

I want to read all different points of view, to make me confront my lazy prejudices, so please make it easy for me by using a few commas or full-stops. I don't think you are an imbecile because you don't write the way I do. Maybe you don't care if I don't understand what you are writing - but I care that I don't understand. Maybe it's my failure to understand that is the problem.

Clive

[El Salsero Gringo]

Clive,

Have you been drinking again?

[David Bailey]

Send the hate mail my way.

OK then, you're a nasty avatar-discussion-disrupter.

So there, that's you told - go back and stand in that corner until you're ready to have a proper animated gif of your own like the grown-ups.

Oh, hold on...

What I mean is that if the grammar and spelling are "somewhat" standard in your writing you are actually more likely to get your message across than if you are more "creative" in the way you write, simply because people can follow what you have written.

OK, good point, you're forgiven, this time.

On a boringly serious not, I know a little bit about communications theory, and language is like any other tool. You have to know the rules before you can bend them. The rules do depend on the medium. For example, in Usenet-style posting (i.e. this forum), there are particular conventions such as avoiding EXCESSIVE USE OF CAPS

But just because the rules are different, doesn't mean that one should get sloppy with sentence structure, grammar and even spelling. For the simple reason of self-interest, if nothing else; as Clive said, the clearer your message, the more likely it is to be persuasive.

[Chicklet]

The teaching of English went through a very bad period where it was deemed that a child's ability to express theirself should not be constrained by matters grammatic or spelletic. The consequence: a generation who are essentially semi-literate and who now hold posts of responsibility.

I did not learn grammar. I absorbed it through it through the material I read so avidly in my youth. Even newspapers were well written - not so any more. Never mind your/you're, what about may/might, and whatever happened to collective nouns???

I think I was at school a little later than Mr Whitebeard, but I wasn't in the UK for the first ten years....last vestiges of empire and all that , we WERE red penned for incorrect use!

I completely agree with the notion that much of what I hold dear was absorbed through reading. Far flung corners in the 70s did not have a lot of TV, we occupied ourselves with lego, story tapes and a plethora of dog-eared books. I was addicted to the Chalet School series where the English girls (no, they weren't British, they were very English) were continually correcting their European schoolmates! There is one particular old form of useage that has stuck with me more than any other from these books...I CANNOT ask for something with "can I have" or "please give me"....even now I cringe if I hear anything other than "please MAY I have".....but I'm quite comfortable as an old fashioned kinda gal (and yes I iron well too!!)

Oh, and I also actively boycott retail establishments advertising "roll's" or "paper's".....that'll learn em (sic ).

[Heather]

THIS IS NOT A DIG AT ANYONE.

May I please ask that posters spare a thought for those of us who were taught in what is now often regarded as "the old fashioned way".

I CANNOT understand the meaning (see what I'm doing here) of anything written in textspeak.

I CANNOT (easily) understand the meaning of a post if an incorrect word eg there/their/they're is used.

I CANNOT (easily) understand the meaning of a post without punctuation.

REPEAT, this is NOT a dig, merely a statement of fact that I suspect may reflect the views of a few fellow posters.

I find the use of incorrect words, as above, offensive (yes I'm really saying offensive ) to my eyes and if the post is long, I am very unlikely to persevere with it.......in order to understand the meaning of the post....it's just too much like hard work!

REPEAT, this is NOT a dig, merely a mention that some of us out here will NOT BE ABLE to understand the meaning of a post unless it is written in a form with which we are conversant. Perhaps this is our failing.......perhaps it isn't.

Well said, Chicklet,
I wholeheartedly agree with you!!!
As a teacher, I am frequently dismayed at the apparent level of literacy in some of the posts I read.
To think I all I had to worry about was Gadget's spelling!!

Heather,
XX

[Whitebeard]

Clive,

Have you been drinking again?

Just a wee dram or two of the golden nectar.

But I expect you were addressing the other Clive; the Long one, not this unbeknown.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Just a wee dram or two of the golden nectar.

But I expect you were addressing the other Clive; the Long one, not this unbeknown.

Hehehe, I was talking to Clive (Long) but I did think you both sounded a bit wibbly-wobbly!

My personal grammar hates are:

-fewer vs. less
-when people say to go and do something, instead of to go to do something (I have Mr. Steane the history teacher for that)
-I am very happy to make arrangements to meet people, but I will never meet with them, or (even worse) meet up with them.

I also prefer my infinitives unsplit, and an demonstrable lack of prepositions at the end of my clauses. (OK, at the end of my hooveses, given my avatar.)

[TheTramp]

Personally, I can live with grammatical errors generally. I can also live with spelling mistakes (quite a lot of time I don't think I even notice them as I read quite quickly). I don't think I know what a split infinitive is

They're/Their/There does bug me a bit, if I notice. As does to/too and other similar common errors. But I can also live with that.

The things that I can't live with, are capital letters, or huge blocks of text without punctuation, or paragraphs (preferably with a line spaced in between them). Those messages, I just don't ever read.

[David Bailey]

My personal grammar hates are:

Hee hee, that's just asking for trouble...
{pedant mode}
Well, personally I get steamed about:
- Words such as "vs." rather than "versus".
- Lack of space after hyphens.
- Inconsistent clause and capitalisation usage with lists.
- Full stops inside bracketed sentences.
{/pedant}


This type of discussion is very old - may I suggest some netiquette rules for anyone looking for guidance?

For example, core rules of netiquette or, for the more geeky of us, there's an interesting RFC here.

[Graham]

The whole point of standardised spelling, grammar, punctuation and typography is to make something easier to read. If you want something to be easily read, try to follow the conventions as closely as possible. The readers will actually subconsciously correct minor errors. The more mistakes you make the more conscious effort the reader has to make to reconstruct what you were trying to say, and the more effort the reader puts in, the less enjoyable the experience.

I would encourage anyone feeling particularly emotional when they write a post to reread it slowly a couple of times at the end, and in particular look out for places where you've missed out a word (especially "not") or changed the way you were going to say something half-way through. We all make mistakes (there are even several in this thread committed by those in the red corner!) so posts don't have to be perfect - they're just more likely to make an impact if they're reasonably easy to read.

[David Bailey]

I would encourage anyone feeling particularly emotional when they write a post to reread it slowly a couple of times at the end, and in particular look out for places where you've missed out a word (especially "not") or changed the way you were going to say something half-way through.

Always good advice. Also, as Ducasi mentioned a while back, assume anything you say here can be seen by anyone and everyone, at any time in the future...

We all make mistakes (there are even several in this thread committed by those in the red corner!)

I know, and some particularly immature people take a childish delight in pointing them out... Hey, I've got to get my jollies somehow, it's 8 hours until I get to dance again.

[bigdjiver]

A simple spelling test:
write
right
wright
rite

Somehow we are supposed to respect a language that can render the same sounds in a multitude of different ways. In a rational world we might just use something like "ryt" for all of them and save our fingers some work.

Somehow we can get by in spoken English with people usually being able to determine which of those four words we intend by the context in which they are used, but in written English there may be a hoo-ha if the wrong spelling is used.

I have known very intelligent dyslexics. I have known many handicapped people. I have seen many people make mistakes in a hurry. I am happy to accept them as they are, and look for good thoughts amongst the "bad" English.

Our language has its uses, but it is a bit of a mess. It has to evolve. A bit more tolerance pls.