Retribution on Party Airsteppers

[TheTramp]

David!

I like that idea (from the salsa class). I will start using it from time to time when I'm teaching!!!



Steve

[Fran]

Originally posted by Basil Brush
DO YOU TRULY THINK THE PEOPLE WE'RE REFERRING TO WOULD LISTEN/ADHERE?

DON'T YOU THINK IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT CAN'T BE TAUGHT- IT IS MORE ABOUT COMMON SENSE RATHER THAN A LEARNED AWARENESS OF BODY SPACE?

yes, it is about commen sense. However I disagree with you BB.
I teach people to use a work shop ( not dance but tools)- without going into it there are loads of saftey eliments involved in my work, many of which are commen sense. However due to human nature I still have to remind students of saftey issues and I have no probelm in doing so if that is what it takes to prevent problem.

I having been a taxi dancer I am very aware that in many, many cases new dancers are too busy just concentrating on the the moves to even think about the saftey issues, unfortunatley this habit stays with some people and they never develop an awarness of their body sense - even as an intermeadiate dancer, unless it is pointed out to them. There are simpy to many example of this happening each night in every venue for it to be enough to rely on "commen sense".

What harm could there be in reminding people of obvious issues regulary in a class situation which offendeds/names no particular individual if it can save people from getting hurt or anoyed with other dancers lack of knowledge/ettiquite/commen sense.?


fran

[Gus]

Originally posted by DavidB

I went to a salsa class once. The room was twice the size of party venue, and there were 40 people in the class. At the end of the class, the teachers said that the amount of space was not realistic. So they squeezed all 20 couples into a tiny space, and then made us do the routine again. You were bumping up against people even whilst standing still, but you learned to adjust your dancing very quickly!

David

excellent exercise. At the Wellington workshop they ran a level 1 workshop (beginners) which had an interesting variation. 3 couples dancing in the centre and about 15 dancers forming a circle round them. On the instructors word, the circle took one step in, reducing the 'dance space'. This continued till the dancers at the centre were dancing back to back. They looked really pleased that they were still managing to dance despite jostling and hitting each other ... till the instructor told them they should have stopped dancing 4 counts previously ... before they started interfeering with the dance space of their fellow dancers. Important point was thus learnt.

[Fran]

Originally posted by Graham
However, I agree (INCIDENTALLY, BASIL, I TAKE IT THERE'S NO CHANCE OF YOU REVERTING TO MIXED CASE? STUDIES HAVE SHOWN IT'S MUCH EASIER TO READ. THERE'S ONLY ONE PERSON I KNOW OF WHO SPEAKS LIKE THIS: HAVE YOU READ ANY TERRY PRATCHETT?)

sorry BB but I agree 100%. I wont bore you with the research on this one but it certainly does exist.

fran

[John S]

Originally posted by Graham

(INCIDENTALLY, BASIL, I TAKE IT THERE'S NO CHANCE OF YOU REVERTING TO MIXED CASE? STUDIES HAVE SHOWN IT'S MUCH EASIER TO READ. THERE'S ONLY ONE PERSON I KNOW OF WHO SPEAKS LIKE THIS: HAVE YOU READ ANY TERRY PRATCHETT?)

Come on, leave the fox alone - he's already got someone's hand stuck up him to make his bits move, so it's asking a lot to expect him to type perfectly as well!

Anyway, quite apart from being totally off the topic, surely the Forum (like life) is enhanced by variety - let's not have any typeface fascism!

JUST REALISED DS HAS DEVOTED A NEW THREAD TO THIS FOX-HUNTING TOPIC - NOW MOVING THERE TO LEAVE ROOM ON THIS THREAD FOR WHAT THE SUBJECT WAS REALLY ABOUT, IE AIRSTEPPING PRATS.

[Gus]

Originally posted by John S

JUST REALISED DS HAS DEVOTED A NEW THREAD TO THIS FOX-HUNTING TOPIC - NOW MOVING THERE TO LEAVE ROOM ON THIS THREAD FOR WHAT THE SUBJECT WAS REALLY ABOUT, IE AIRSTEPPING PRATS.

John,

firstly was a pleasure to meet you ... sorry we didn't have greater chance to chat ... my fault

Secondly ... as Official Devils Advocate I feel I should argue the case for the airsteppers ...........

Urrrgghhh .... need some help so I've had a great idea. At least one person has voted FOR the right to airstep ..... how about one of the airsteppers giving their side of the story .... YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE........

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Gus
Secondly ... as Official Devils Advocate I feel I should argue the case for the airsteppers ...........

I'm not going to argue for doing airsteps in freestyle - I voted for them to be banned. But if people who do airsteps are (rightly) encouraged to show some restraint, then what is the alternative you are offering? Where else can they do these steps? I've always found it strange when organisers get airsteps teachers in, and then tell everyone not to do them.

The same goes for drops. If you are teaching them, and emphasising the safety aspects, including when not to do them, then when do you suggest allowing them?

David

[Jon]

Airstepping, Seducers or just about any move in Ceroc come to that people need to be SPACE AWARE. So many people do not look around them and think do I actually have enough room to do my next move.

I am forever moving out of peoples way and dodging heads of the ladys inches from my feet.

When I do a move I always make sure there is space to do it in saftey after all guys it's the Lady thats going to get hurt not you. And in case someone steps in to my space I have a backup plan.

Is common sense too much to ask?

Dance but be SAFE!

[TheTramp]

It's a good point David. If you got the latest Jump'n'Jive email, you'd see that Andy and Rena are teaching a class this weekend, and the line went something like, 'Come and learn how to put some jumps into your dancing'. Or something like that.

The point is, do them, with someone who knows what they're doing, when you've been taught how to do them properly, somewhere it's safe, and where you have much more room than you need. Which admittedly is NOT most places. And certainly wasn't on Saturday.

Under certain, very limited circumstances, I have nothing against some airsteps (as I'm sure most people know). It's just the when that seems to be the problem for some people.

Steve

[Basil Brush (Forum Plant)]

WELL FOLKS IT ALL STARTED WHEN I POSTED A MESSAGE ACCIDENTALY IN UPPER CASE (WAS IN A HURRY). IMMEDIATELY GOT SLATED BY SOME PRAT ('CHOOSE 5TYLE OVER SUBSTANCE' OR SOMETHING) SO KEPT GOING IN CAPS JUST TO BUG 'EM. I AM REALLY A FAN OF ALL LOWER CASE, SPECIALLY FOR INTERNET BASED STUFF.

BACK TO AIRSTEPS- THE THRUST OF THIS THREAD- I KNWO THEIR NAMES..... OFFER ME A RABBIT AND I MIGHT JUST TELL....

[Gadget]

Originally posted by DavidB
what is the alternative you are offering? Where else can they do these steps? I've always found it strange when organisers get airsteps teachers in, and then tell everyone not to do them.

Showcases? How about having a showcase slot at every party? Volunteers could then do all the fancy moves they liked with no worries of banging into anyone (perhaps just a small one of falling off the stage)

hmmm... perhaps need to bracket the slot with safety warnings - standard "Don't try this at home, kids" stuff.

[Gus]

Well it would appear that the stars of Saturday night wish to forgoe their chance to argue their case ... pity ... as I noticed at least one of the gentlemen browsing this forum.

So ... the wishes of the common masses is fairly evenly split between 'stern talking to' and 'putting stocks on stage and being repeatedly smashed across the face with a 10lb haddock'. Both pretty fair choices but if I supply the haddock will that help sway the wavering voters??

Anyway ... the main point is what do the Management think, Franck, any comments?

[TheTramp]

How about having a showcase slot at every party?

The trouble with something like that would be that if you only get 5 people who want to do one, that takes up 30 minutes of dance time, that many of the people there would resent losing.

Personally, apart from the really good people doing demonstrations (and there are very few of those), I don't really want to stop dancing myself to watch. The cabaret at Camber (with again 3 notable exceptions) wasn't worth the break in dancing, and I got the only cheer during the introductions (of teachers and DJs), when I kept it to three words (Hi, I'm Steve). I recall that in May, Nigel and Nina were the only people who got cheers...
Nina - Hello, I'm Nina
Nigel - And I'm not.
There's obviously something about using 3 words!!

Steve

[DavidB]

Originally posted by TheTramp
The trouble with something like that {showcase} would be that if you only get 5 people who want to do one, that takes up 30 minutes of dance time, that many of the people there would resent losing.

How about the 'jam circle' idea that you get in Lindy. For those that have never seen one, this is a pretty good description (from KCDance.com):

"Back in the big band days, Lindy Hoppers often had a hard time finding enough space to safely do their best moves. Shine steps, air steps, and travelling steps were simply too dangerous or impossible to do on the busy dance floors of those days. Thus, Lindy Hoppers would often form what was called a "Jam Session," "Jam Circle" or simply a "Jam." The dancers would clear out a wide area on the dance floor by standing in a circle and then take turns inside the circle to show off their best moves while the other Lindy Hoppers cheered them on. This "Jam" would go on until (a) every Lindy Hopper had their turn or the (b) non-Lindy Hoppers threatened physical violence. Today, the classic tradition of jams still lives on in the finer Lindy Hop clubs around the world. Here's the rules of a Jam:

• If non-Lindy Hoppers are present, Jams should only last two or three songs. The only exception is if Frankie Manning is running the Jam, in which case the Jam can go on indefinitely.
• A spontaneous Jam can be started at any time by any group of Lindy Hoppers clearing a circle for one couple to dance in.
• Organized Jams are normally ran by the lead dancers at a club in conjunction with the DJ/Band Leader.
• If an organized Jam starts, all Lindy Hoppers in the club should stop what they are doing and join the circle to cheer on the couple inside.
• Once you enter the Jam, you stay until (a) you decide to leave or (b) another couple enters the circle. Don't stay past your time.
• To enter the Jam, grab your partner and wait just inside of the circle. As long as the couple inside the circle is cutting it up, wait. When they leave or run out of steam, enter the Jam. "

David

[TheTramp]

It does sound like a plan, and could be carried out at some places. I think that a lynch mob might have started on Saturday though, if that much dance floor had been taken up

Maybe you can organise one at Bognor in January (if you're going).

Steve

[Basil Brush (Forum Plant)]

jam circles are fun- especially with tea- but only difficulty is that people are too scared to go in! i have been too chicken in the past (partly because of the tail- self-conscious/awkward) but it can be intimidating for most people, especially those of a non-exhibitionist nature. but they are good to watch, and a good opportunity for airsteps/dips/drops. can't see it at your average ceroc night though.

please notice the lower case tramp.... is this to your liking? god you folks are hard to please......

[Gadget]

Originally posted by TheTramp
The trouble with something like that would be that if you only get 5 people who want to do one, that takes up 30 minutes of dance time, that many of the people there would resent losing.

I was thinking more of 'cage dancing' sort of concept {like in clubs esp Ibiza} - just have a couple on the stage doing their thang - those who want to watch, can. Those who want to dance, can. Those who want to do go to the bar, can.

Sort of like the Jam idea except the stage being the center so that it dosn't take away dance floor space.

Originally posted by DavidB
How about the 'jam circle' idea that you get in Lindy.~

I like the idea: sounds a lot of fun. But I have a feeling that it would scare beginners - a circle presents an awful lot of backs to the rest of the dance floor; could be taken as a snub to those outside of it, or as a form clique-ism.
(Actually, there is a ceiligh dance {I can never get that word right!} that involves a very similar thing - perhaps a request for next time ?)

~edit~
You posted the same time as I did Mr B. Thank you for the change.

[TheTramp]

The lower case is most acceptable on the eyes.

Steve

[Gary]

Originally posted by DavidB
The dancers would clear out a wide area on the dance floor by standing in a circle and then take turns inside the circle to show off their best moves while the other Lindy Hoppers cheered them on.

They do a Jam Circle variation at some of the venues I've been to. Sometimes to celebrate a person's birthday, they're put in the middle of the circle and they dance one song through, swapping partners over the course of the song. New partners wait "in the wings" for a smooth partner changeover. One of the coolest dances I've ever seen was a guy doing this with some very smooth changeovers and dancing his heart out.

[TheTramp]

You see that lots of places - in fact, they did it at the party for Franck.

Steve