View Poll Results: Should the Airsteppers from the Party be..

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  • Applauded for their showmanship

    3 5.56%
  • Ignored

    3 5.56%
  • Sternly talked to

    15 27.78%
  • Banned!

    7 12.96%
  • Beaten to a pulp with a wet haddock

    26 48.15%
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Thread: Retribution on Party Airsteppers

  1. #101
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    General Dance Etiquette

    It seems to me that there are a lot of people out there that don't consider other dancers when the step out on the floor. I am constantly getting hacked off by people who just walk on and try to dance in the space that you are already dancing in!!!! I have lost count of the kicks in the ankle and elbows in the ribs that I've had due to people launching in to dips and seducers on a busy floor. Teachers always used to stress the need for consideration of others, maybe time to stress the point again as it seems to be a sore point (pardon the pun) with a lot of people

  2. #102
    Registered User Jon's Avatar
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    I note there is only 1 vote for "Applauded for their showmanship". Was this one of the people doing airsteps on a crowded dance floor I wonder!

  3. #103
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jon
    I note there is only 1 vote for "Applauded for their showmanship". Was this one of the people doing airsteps on a crowded dance floor I wonder!
    Don't think so ... an 'associate' of mine confessed down the pub after dance last Thursday .... either he follows through with his promise to scribe a few words or I shall out him!

    OK ... as ODA the tiresome role of putting a counter view must rest on these shoulders so here goes....


    WHat is it with you lot going on about airsteppers???? We have as much right to a social dancefloor as anyone else ... ther is much chance as being smacked in the face from a man's yoyo'd arm or the usual danger of ladies flinging thier 'style' arm out and not looking where it goes....

    Most GOOD airsteppers do mini aerials on the dancefloor ... e.g. jump-splat, stratight lifts, hip-hop etc ... and many of these are allowed to be taught per Ceroc (orange moves) ... even half-loops. As long as the airsteppers keep an eye on the surrounding dancers then there is no trouble ... remember , its up to the other dancers to give us as much room as we give them.

    In line with tradition you'll find us at the front .... where there tends to be more room. and why do we do them ... BECAUSE WE CAN ... they look great, the ladies want them and they the fun part of the dance .... thats why everyone notices them .. cause they look real cool

    Comments please?

  4. #104
    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Gus
    and why do we do them ... BECAUSE WE CAN ... they look great, the ladies want them and they the fun part of the dance .... thats why everyone notices them .. cause they look real cool
    Wow dude , you got me convinced! I have seen the light , can I be an air-stepper too please, please, please??????????
    I promise to be good (and work out )

    How do you signal a triple back-flip?

    Franck.
    Only kidding folks, in case the irony is not dripping all over already Dance safe, and be happy!

  5. #105
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    Umm.

    My advice to your friend is to next time cop a plea of insanity. There's more chance of being believed.

    I'm generally taken to be quite a reasonable airstepper (UK Champion at Beach Boogie 2001 and 3rd place at Blackpool 2002 would be my credentials), and there is no way I'd have done an airstep for the majority of the night at the 10th anniversary party.

    As for having as much right to the social dancefloor as anyone, this is true, but airsteps take up far more space than the majority of moves, and, lets be honest, a mans elbow doing a yo-yo is not the same as a girls feet being flung out at head height. Anyone who honestly believes that needs seeing to (although, I will admit that the is some danger from 'normal' moves, it in no way compares to the dangers of airstep moves).

    Finally, I agree that good airsteps, done well, do look cool. Unfortunately, as previously said, most people doing airsteps do not do good ones, and most definitely do not look cool. I would also say that the majority of people doing them, can't.

    Steve

  6. #106
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheTramp
    Umm.

    My advice to your friend is to next time cop a plea of insanity. There's more chance of being believed.
    Steve
    Oww ... unfair! Thought the ODA alter-ego did a fairly good job ..... not that I agree with some of his debate.

    As you and Franck (and many others) have said, it comes down to floorspace and the competency of the dancers involved. At the end of the day, if the likes of Andy and Rena can (very) occaisionaly get it wrong (and the way they tell the story of Rena's broken arm is worth a workshop on its own) .... hen I think its safer for all just to have a blanket ban.

    WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND is that no airsteppers (aside from you Steve) have joined in the debate ... if they don't feel comfortable enough to debate the subject openly, how can they feel comfortable doing it on a dancefloor????

  7. #107
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    Oww ... unfair! Thought the ODA alter-ego did a fairly good job
    I agree. The ODA did do a fairly good job. I wasn't commenting on the competancy of his arguement, merely on the content!!

    WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND is that no airsteppers (aside from you Steve) have joined in the debate
    Well, David and Lily have voiced their opinions. They're rather good at that sort of thing too!! Interestingly, we're all on the same side. What you need are some airsteppers who think that it's ok to do airsteps on a crowded social dance floor. Where are the people from the anniversary party??

    Steve

  8. #108
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheTramp
    What you need are some airsteppers who think that it's ok to do airsteps on a crowded social dance floor. Where are the people from the anniversary party??

    Steve
    Well ... I could name names ... but that would be an abuse of the forum ....I think if the individuals concerned manage to contain themselves in future then all this thread will have been worthwhile! Intersting point, one of the offending parties is allegedly a trained Modern Jive teacher ... not Ceroc I hasten to say.

  9. #109
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    Hmmm. I only know of one other Modern Jive teacher who was at the party. I didn't get any specific training for teaching, so I know that you can't mean me That doesn't mean of course that it was him - I wouldn't know a lot of the teachers of Modern Jive from up North.

    And interestingly, what sort of training did he have, if it was him? I didn't realise that other organisations (apart from ceroc obviously) have any form of training scheme.

    Steve

  10. #110
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Gus


    Oww ... unfair! Thought the ODA alter-ego did a fairly good job ..... not that I agree with some of his debate.

    As you and Franck (and many others) have said, it comes down to floorspace and the competency of the dancers involved. At the end of the day, if the likes of Andy and Rena can (very) occaisionaly get it wrong (and the way they tell the story of Rena's broken arm is worth a workshop on its own) .... hen I think its safer for all just to have a blanket ban.

    WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND is that no airsteppers (aside from you Steve) have joined in the debate ... if they don't feel comfortable enough to debate the subject openly, how can they feel comfortable doing it on a dancefloor????
    The reason I haven't weighed in is I'm trying to avoid the "do as I say, not do as I do" effect. The only airsteps specialists I know of that really do religiously stick to "no aerials on a social dancefloor" are David and Lily. But mind you, there's a very large difference between "social dancefloor", and "crowded social dancefloor". (And for that matter between a small knee lift and spinning someone around at head height). But I hope no-one advocates any aerials on a crowded floor.

    I'd agree with DavidB that it's strange for teachers to show people aerials and then not expect them to actually do them. OK, the serious couples hire dance space (or gym space) specifically for practice, but it can be a fairly major expense. It's not surprising most people try to "sneak in" their practice at their normal dance venue. They probably feel a little guilty about it, but they still do it.

    The bottom line is that people will do what they think is safe. The problem is that they're often wrong, and it's not just themselves they're endangering. So in the end, maybe a blanket ban at Ceroc is the most workable solution.

    I do also wonder about whether Ceroc should teach airsteps at all. I've had a couple of worrying experiences and my conclusion was that the Ceroc approach ("we're all here to have fun and not take it too seriously") doesn't mix well with aerials. It doesn't matter how well the teacher is qualified if the class doesn't think it needs to pay attention. The attitude at classes where you actually have to book and sign a disclaimer first always seems to be a lot better - the people doing it know they're doing something potentially dangerous, and act accordingly.

    Dave

  11. #111
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheTramp

    And interestingly, what sort of training did he have, if it was him? I didn't realise that other organisations (apart from ceroc obviously) have any form of training scheme.

    Steve
    Ouuch ... you'll have the LeRoc people after your scalp! (OK ... that may well be a challenge )

    As far as I'm aware LeRoc and the Ceroc breakaway organsiations, Blitz and MoJive, train their own teachers. I'm resisting my ODA role to make some comment re the standard of their training buy will resist ... cause I don't know. Well ... most people I've spoken to seem to regard the CTA training as the best (at least for teaching Beginners and Int classses) ... but I don't know to what extent people are really aware of what the other guys do...

    Wonder if someone from thoise organsiations would like to voice a point of view ... know they've all got representatives on the forum.

    Having said that ... if you train a muppet, he's still a muppet ... just a trained muppet. I've even seen a CTA teacher to two who I wouldn't let loose teaching an armjive.

  12. #112
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    Ouuch ... you'll have the LeRoc people after your scalp!
    Sorry if I offended anyone. But I'm unaware of any training for LeRoc - nothing at all like what the CTA do at least. LeRoc is run in a totally different way to Ceroc (as far as I'm aware). If you want to open up a venue, and call it LeRoc, then I believe that you can. And that's that.

    I'm also sure that Blitz and MoJive wouldn't just let anyone loose on their classes without doing some form of training. Again, I'm also sure that there's quite a difference between what they, and ceroc do. Whether there's quite such a need to go to the lengths that ceroc do is another matter again though. There are some very good teachers who have never received any training, and some very bad teachers, who have received lots of training (and before I get myself in too much trouble, also some very good teachers who have received lots of training (and all levels in between)).

    I think I'll shut up now....

    Steve
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  13. #113
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    Don't think so ... an 'associate' of mine confessed down the pub after dance last Thursday .... either he follows through with his promise to scribe a few words or I shall out him!



    Sorry I've been away for a while, so it's been interesting to see all the comments. Very surprised to see I was the only one applauding the Airsteppers, what's wrong with you lot?
    Thought it might help with the debate.
    I like a few others love airsteps, but again agree whole heartedly there is a time & a Place. Thinking about it logically though, whilst the Airsteppers were holding candle sticks etc, it did give the rest of us more room below them to dance in! If half the floor did a candlestick for 3 mins each think of the extra space we would all have!!

    Any way as for my one airstep, that I confessed to! It was a straight lift with my partners body touching mine, as I lifted her up, in other words there were no flailing arms or legs & it was started from a Blues type move, very close & gracefully lifted, even though I do say so myself. She passes her left leg around my midriff & slides back to the floor, again down the front of my body. So this move is closer than a Blues move & causes less horizontal movement than a Basket. If somebody can explain how this could be dangerous, other than to extremely small people, below thigh height, then I will be back to beg your forgiveness. :sorry

    Cheers Gus
    Keith

  14. #114
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    Originally posted by Keith
    Thinking about it logically though, whilst the Airsteppers were holding candle sticks etc, it did give the rest of us more room below them to dance in! If half the floor did a candlestick for 3 mins each think of the extra space we would all have!!
    But then I couldn't do a helicopter - all these legs would be in the way! But I forget - bad airsteppers don't worry about anyone else.

    It was a straight lift with my partners body touching mine
    Even simple lifts like the one you describe are dangerous. What happens when someone does a catapult into you whilst you are holding your partner...

    David

    PS I almost had a very interesting experience on Saturday. I was just about to do a travelling return, and was about to step past my partner. For some reason I decided to look down...
    ... and I saw a young lady's head about 2 inches from my crotch. I thought Christmas had come early!
    Then I realised that her partner had done a drop, and had picked to only free space he could find - the space between me and my partner.
    Normally I dread to think what would happen if I hit someone when they are doing a drop, but in this case it might have been worth it.

  15. #115
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DavidB
    and I saw a young lady's head about 2 inches from my crotch. I thought Christmas had come early!
    I hope you at least got her name and number ... and as Lily may object, how about passing it on to us single folk

  16. #116
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    and I saw a young lady's head about 2 inches from my crotch. I thought Christmas had come early!
    Thanks David. I needed a laugh.

    (joins queue behind Gus for said phone number)

    Steve

  17. #117
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    If half the floor did a candlestick for 3 mins each think of the extra space we would all have!!
    Is that because of all the people that would have been in hospital?? (Just kidding).

    Though, the main problem is, that it would have been all the ladies. So, I'd have had to have lots more dances with David and CJ!!

    Steve

  18. #118
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    Hi David,
    Even simple lifts like the one you describe are dangerous. What happens when someone does a catapult into you whilst you are holding your partner...
    If the Catapult was from behind me, then I would have a nice comfortable landing, however and you are quite right, if it was in front of me, then I may get hurt, unless I could have twisted Janey round, whilst falling, therefore reducing any risk to ones self!
    Janey also sends her regards & thanks you for a couple of nice dances.
    Keith

  19. #119
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    Originally posted by DavidB
    and I saw a young lady's head about 2 inches from my crotch. I thought Christmas had come early!
    P.S Not sure, but I think I recognise this lady! , :sorry
    Keith

  20. #120
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    Originally posted by Keith
    unless I could have twisted Janey round, whilst falling, therefore reducing any risk to ones self!
    I knew you must have married her for a reason (although, the fact that she's gorgeous, and lovely with it might also have had something to do with it maybe?

    Steve

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