Retribution on Party Airsteppers

[Gus]

Further to the main posting ... at the Party there were at least three guys doing major airsteps where there wasn't even room to armjive. Is it just me or is that a BAD thing? Please vote with your thoughts.

[Tiggerbabe]

I saw one couple doing a move that you should only attempt in a showcase performance - funnily enough the same couple that were doing the same thing the other week at the monthly Glasgow party. Luckily (for me!) Franck was dancing in the same area and told the bloke to get real (or I presume words to that effect!). He's definitely a liability though and if he needs told again then should be banned.
The first thing I saw when I got to the party was a couple on the floor doing a serious seducer and the lady's head narrowly missing someone else by 2cm, if that!
Later on there was at least some space for doing a drop or dip but anything that involves the lady's feet being above her head was a definite no no for last night - in fact a no no for any social dancefloor.

[TheTramp]

There were people doing airsteps last night?????

You forgot the only option on the poll that would have counted Gus.

"Committed"

Steve

[TheTramp]

Although, I have to admit, that I did do an airstep with Franck and DavidB. But that was in the hallway outside, supervised by LilyB.

I think I got away with it

Steve

[DavidB]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Although, I have to admit, that I did do an airstep with Franck and DavidB

We were disappointed - we thought you were going to lift us overhead

[TheTramp]

If I could have actually linked my fingers, then I would have. Double candlestick with Franck and DavidB. Now that would have been worth seeing!!!

Not that I'd want to give other people ideas though!!

Steve

[Gus]

Originally posted by TheTramp
If I could have actually linked my fingers, then I would have. Double candlestick with Franck and DavidB. Now that would have been worth seeing!!!

Not that I'd want to give other people ideas though!!

Steve

Not that I wish to be 'weightist' but I wasn't sure about the load bearing capacity of that floor ... and given that all three of you gentlemen are ...ahem, not without bodymass ... would this not represent a structural hazard .... what was you combined weight ... around 48 stone??? Could be a new game .. guess the weight....

ANYWAY ... GET BACK ON TOPIC

[TheTramp]

Dunno. I weigh 18 on my own Gus. So we might even have broken the 50 stone mark I suppose at the point I was picking both of them up, the stress on the floor might have been just a little more than usual!!

[Dreadful Scathe]

Must admit I didn't notice anyone doing airsteps, I barely managed any leans. Did no one 'ave a word' at the time?


As for this poll - i was tempted to pick the option 'ingored' but it wasnt clear what they would be gored to death with (thats what you meant Gus right ?) - possibly too severe a penalty, hmm maybe not .

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Gus
Further to the main posting ... at the Party there were at least three guys doing major airsteps where there wasn't even room to armjive. Is it just me or is that a BAD thing? Please vote with your thoughts.

I did witness a few 'stupid' air-step and drop moves, done by people that should know better. But it wasn't just those people that got my goat - it was the fact that some people refused to change the way they danced to suit the conditions - you just can't do flamboyant moves in that space (or lack of it) without bumping into someone or propelling your partner into someone.

:reallymad

[TheTramp]

I agree with Gadget.

As Gus already pointed out, at one point (dancing with Helen), I had to interpose myself for a prolonged period between the people dancing next to us, and Helen, just to stop her taking on more bruises. This was a fairly common occurance. In any crowded space like that, it's impossible not to bump/get bumped, but everyone should certainly have adjusted the way they were dancing to take account of the lack of space.

I didn't see anyone doing any airsteps, but felt that I and my partner were in more danger of people's elbows and being trodden on than anything else.

It was actually nice dancing next to you, Gus, at one point, as I was able to relax a bit, knowing that we were relatively safe for that time.

Steve

[Lou]

Originally posted by Gadget
- it was the fact that some people refused to change the way they danced to suit the conditions

Grrrrrr.... that really annoys me, too. Trouble is, this type of dancer only seems to be able to do those moves. It's one extreme of a range of dance styles - it seems the mentality is to fit in as many of these showy moves without any thought to musical interpretation. In fact, it would be the same, no matter what he would be dancing to... :reallymad

[Dave Hancock]

Thought I'd join in this discussion with a thought of my own on teacher's responsibilities.

I would like to point out that only 2 days before the party in an Aberdeen intermediate class we were taught what I would classify a baby air step with ladies having both legs of the ground and jumping into a space preferably a couple of feet from the man. It was no surpirse then to see several Aberdonian's trying this move on Saturday night in what were totally inappropriate circumstances, but who still did the move far too regularly because they thought it looked it cool (would agree with an earlier voiced opinion that most air moves look at best average and normally a lot worse as they break the beat of a dance and are often used by fairly inexperinced dancers who don't interpret music particulary well who are only attracted to the wow effect of such moves, whom have absolutely little regard for space and the potential effects which such moves has on others.)

I think that anytime before such an event which is likely to be extremely busy (such as 10 yr parties, Scottish championships, Uk championships) etc, that teachers refrain from teaching moves as well as drops and leans, as all that happens is that in the following days these moves are used all too often as they are so fresh in one's mind.

As someone who quite enjoys a seducer or drop I'd also like to add my disappointed voice to all those voiced previously that the floor space was so limited as to have as to force (the majority of people, certainly not everybody :reallymad) to dance considerably "smaller" than usual, however I would like to thank Franck for letting me use Gus's excellent up close and personnel workshop moves to great effect on a number of occassions at night time

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Dave Hancock


I think that anytime before such an event which is likely to be extremely busy (such as 10 yr parties, Scottish championships, Uk championships) etc, that teachers refrain from teaching moves as well as drops and leans, as all that happens is that in the following days these moves are used all too often as they are so fresh in one's mind.

Hmm! Thats not going to make a difference. not everyone that goes to events like that go to Ceroc classes, there are countless other Jive classes. I know quite a few aerial moves but no one sees them very often as Im aware of the danger of smacking my partner into people. Now, my regular partner can be a fearsome weapon in her own right - but not usually propelled by me .

Perhaps a better suggestion would be to have a brief safety talk at Ceroc venues when they do any moves like that - or even add it as an intro to the intermediate class - I mean it would take 1 minute secs to at least have a few words on awareness and danger of moves. I know other teachers do mention safety more than Ive heard at Ceroc nights.

[Fran]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe

Perhaps a better suggestion would be to have a brief safety talk at Ceroc venues when they do any moves like that - or even add it as an intro to the intermediate class - I mean it would take 1 minute secs to at least have a few words on awareness and danger of moves. I know other teachers do mention safety more than Ive heard at Ceroc nights.

I agree with you DC, if the teachers regulary spoke about body space -( i.e, elbows and feet) and dangerous moves as a part of their lessons - weather they are doing drops ect or not it will eventually get the message across to existing members and will be good for new ones.

Teaching good practice form the start makes things so much better in the long run. Given everyone's concern about saftey on the dance floor I would have no problem listening to the teachers saying somthing each night, even if I had heard it before.

fran

[Basil Brush (Forum Plant)]

DO YOU TRULY THINK THE PEOPLE WE'RE REFERRING TO WOULD LISTEN/ADHERE?

DON'T YOU THINK IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT CAN'T BE TAUGHT- IT IS MORE ABOUT COMMON SENSE RATHER THAN A LEARNED AWARENESS OF BODY SPACE?

[Dave Hancock]

Agree with BB's comment's that a lot of it is common sense and while there has been much talk about potential retribution (as is the them of this thread) I think it would be important in determining who it should be who has a word with the offenders.
If individuals take it upon themselves to put out the selfishness of certain other's then it shall inevitably lead to an element of bad feeling and mean that Ceroc would lose a lot of it's feel good factor if there was "bitchiness" among dancers, which in my eyes means that it would really be the responsibility of the teachers to have a word with them. Would be interested in gaining others views on this topic.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Dave Hancock
Agree with BB's comment's that a lot of it is common sense and while there has been much talk about potential retribution (as is the them of this thread) I think it would be important in determining who it should be who has a word with the offenders.

As a franchisee I only banned two people. One was for inappropraite 'closeness' ... and the other chap was for doing airsteps after I warned him!

It grieves me because actualy I really like airsteps but I've not yet come up with a way of allowing airsteps safely BEACUSE ... whereas most people would properly do them well ... there would still be a whole raft of idiots who wouldn't ... what do you do??

[Graham]

Firstly, I agree that it would be a good idea not to teach any new drops which may require more care/room immediately before (or even at) a big event. And when such moves are taught, it would certainly be a good idea to make a reference to when they might be inappropriate.

However, I agree (INCIDENTALLY, BASIL, I TAKE IT THERE'S NO CHANCE OF YOU REVERTING TO MIXED CASE? STUDIES HAVE SHOWN IT'S MUCH EASIER TO READ. THERE'S ONLY ONE PERSON I KNOW OF WHO SPEAKS LIKE THIS: HAVE YOU READ ANY TERRY PRATCHETT?) that the people who need this advice the most are the ones who probably wouldn't listen to it. On the other hand, it's easy to change the class and add the safety talk, and it can't do any harm.

I also agree with Dave H that it should not be up to individuals to confront the offenders. This has also been discussed previously on another thread. Personally I think the person in charge of the class/party has this responsibility.

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Fran
if the teachers regulary spoke about body space -( i.e, elbows and feet) and dangerous moves as a part of their lessons - weather they are doing drops ect or not it will eventually get the message across to existing members and will be good for new ones.

I agree. There would have been just enough room to dance on Saturday if everyone knew how to dance small. Unfortunately it only takes 10% of the people to dance 'big' and everyone on the floor gets affected (and pissed off!)

I went to a salsa class once. The room was twice the size of party venue, and there were 40 people in the class. At the end of the class, the teachers said that the amount of space was not realistic. So they squeezed all 20 couples into a tiny space, and then made us do the routine again. You were bumping up against people even whilst standing still, but you learned to adjust your dancing very quickly!

David