Cool Catz Closes .......

[spindr]

Hmmm, probably not a popular view -- but isn't it counterproductive to let people attend classes too far above there level -- when the class is advertised as such?

It leaves the teacher with the choice of dropping the level -- and disappointing those who expected the advertised level
OR
teaching the class at the advertised level -- and those that can cope having to struggle to pick up any subtleties due to having to drag those with less learning (n.b. not necessarily potential ability, just a "smaller dance vocabulary"). through the class -- again a disappointment.

SpinDr.

[Lory]

I confess, I'm ignorant to "advanced teaching" - I am likening it to a good workshop, but taught from stage: is this accurate?

Nigel approaches his advanced classes with the assumption, that to attend the class, we should already know all the basic moves ... First move, travelling return, etc. therefore, NO time is wasted learning that part. He then concentrates on embellishing the moves, adding variations and styling.

And the class moves at a nice speedy pace.

[Zuhal]

Gus. A noble attempt. Well done for making the effort.

Spoilt as I am in London and with a varied work agenda I never know where I will be at 7 pm every night until a few days before.

I have been trying to revisit Jango (to show I am not too awed) but I end up visiting which ever class is most convenient on any particular night.

I do take into account the Teacher and the Venue. I do not care who the Organisation is, whether there is a bar or not or who the other punters are. I go to dance, to improve and to have fun.

Zuhal

[David Bailey]

Hmmm, probably not a popular view -- but isn't it counterproductive to let people attend classes too far above there level -- when the class is advertised as such?

Yes, but that depends what you're trying to do. If you're solely trying to make a profit, run a business, etc., then you don't really care how good the dancers are, you just want bums on seats (or the dancing equivalent )
So, the only reason to promote advanced dancing classes / venues, from a cold-hearted business-oriented viewpoint is if the extra effort and overhead increases your attendee numbers in a significant way, or means that you can generate other revenue from video sales etc.
So, if you want to promote these things (and I do! I do!), you need to make a proper business case. Remember, to the main organisers, it's not the dancing, it's the numbers.
Having said that, good venues and classes do of course attract good numbers - but it may not be clear that advanced classes attract better numbers. In fact, it looks like the opposite Hence the workshop route tends to be more common...

[bigdjiver]

Perhaps we should not walk and talk in front of our new born babes because they are not at that level yet?

[David Franklin]

Perhaps we should not walk and talk in front of our new born babes because they are not at that level yet?

Perhaps we should feed them grown-up food like steak, chips and beer as well?

[Franck]

Another way forward is the use of 'advanced lessons' at normal clubs. However, the problem I've seen in these lessons is that the students may not be up to the standard of the lesson.

I believe that is the wrong way to look at it. You cannot set a high level and hope to only attract those 'advanced' enough. The only way is to take your regular dancers with you, those that want to improve will go to the workshops / technical classes / advanced classes etc... This is where being a large organisation helps, you can try to raise standards at several regular nights at the same time, and when you do organize a more ambitious week-end or special night, you have a built up base.

In Perth, as a pilot, we have started a weekly technical class, similar to what El Salsero suggested, '40 minutes of technique taught during the Beginners class, with a different theme every week, and so far I'm very pleased with the results. We work hard and learn tough concepts that could not be developed so well in a normal class!
I was worried that losing 20 or so good dancers from the Beginners class would be an issue, but it seems to have helped the Beginners... The only requirement we make is that you must have 6 months of dancing experience prior to joining the Technical class.
By the way, for DavidJames, the recommended level of experience for joining the Intermediate class is now 3 months as the Beginners classes follow a 12 week rotation.

Sorry to hear you closed your night Gus and I totally understand your pain / frustration. Just don't let it get you down.

[David Bailey]

By the way, for DavidJames, the recommended level of experience for joining the Intermediate class is now 3 months as the Beginners classes follow a 12 week rotation.

Thanks for that - I say, things sure have changed since I was a wee snapper

Plus, for "bring them with you" - after all, advanced dancers have to be developed, they don't just come out of a box. Obviously, the best all-roind model is to have a regular class with lots of regular dancers, and to then keep raising the level of teaching, to keep challenging this group of regulars, whilst still retaining interest for new starters.

I think it's that last bit which is the tricky one

[David Bailey]

Perhaps we should feed them grown-up food like steak, chips and beer as well?

Well, continuing tha analogy, we eat grown-up food in front of babies, and we show them how to eat like us (albeit gradually), demonstrating the advanced way of fork-following and knife-leading...

I can see this mutating into a babycare thread real quick now

[Gus]

You cannot set a high level and hope to only attract those 'advanced' enough. The only way is to take your regular dancers with you, those that want to improve will go to the workshops / technical classes / advanced classes etc... This is where being a large organisation helps, you can try to raise standards at several regular nights at the same time, and when you do organize a more ambitious week-end or special night, you have a built up base.

Horses for courses. There are many more segmentations than just 'advanced' and'intermediate'. It depends on your club(s) profile. In the N West we have about 30/40 dancers who could take on board some more challenging concepts. why should they wait until the 'internediates' have caught up? At the same time there are dancers who's dancing is below 'advanced' (and no ... I have no idea how to define that level) but beacuse of thier natural ability or experince in other dancing (say Salsa, line dancing) they are able to develop at an accelerated speed.

I'm not saying this is the only way, but it IS a way forward. Had we not run foul of Blitz and I hadnt emigrated to London maybe we could have proved phe ooint. Its interesting that Blitz's imitation of Cool Catz seems to be folding ..... wonder where they found problems?

[David Bailey]

I'm not saying this is the only way, but it IS a way forward. Had we not run foul of Blitz and I hadnt emigrated to London maybe we could have proved phe ooint.

Maybe you still can? After all, you're in London - why not see if people are receptive to a new class? OK, there's a lot of competition, but there's also a lot of demand. I know I've been Devil's Advocate (appropriately enough), but as a consumer of dancing, I'd very much like to see more advanced classes available in London. I don't believe the market is saturated yet, and it sounds like you can pull in the punters. I'm living in hope...

[Gus]

Maybe you still can? After all, you're in London - why not see if people are receptive to a new class?

To be honest I dont see the need. Jango covers all I would cover and provides similar music. I would, at this point at least, perfer to support the likes of Jango and Hipsters.

Anyway .... still need to get my sorry butt out of the house and get to the venue .... last night blues maybe but we intend to go out in style.

[Gus]

In Perth, as a pilot, we have started a weekly technical class, similar to what El Salsero suggested, '40 minutes of technique taught during the Beginners class, with a different theme every week, and so far I'm very pleased with the results. We work hard and learn tough concepts that could not be developed so well in a normal class!
I was worried that losing 20 or so good dancers from the Beginners class would be an issue, but it seems to have helped the Beginners... The only requirement we make is that you must have 6 months of dancing experience prior to joining the Technical class.

Was looking for something else and came across this. I'd fogotten that Ceroc Scotland came up with some real innovations about a year or so ago ... How did they pan out?

Though things have stagnated here to an extent, its been intersting to see that Keith has taken the Cool Catz model (and taken over the old Cool Catz vanue, Knutford ) and seems to be making a good go of it. Maybe I was wrong in my original assumptions for the demise of CoolCatz at Knutsford. I think where Keith is succeeding is through developing stronger links with surrounding clubs and so able to market more effectively in the area. I'm not sure about numbers or if there has been a big difference on the standard of danicng, but at least it is proving to be economically viable. Maybe the model does work, but it has to be supported by effective marketing.

So, what gives with 'new concepts' in the land of strong women, men in skirts and fine spirits?

[El Salsero Gringo]

Though things have stagnated here to an extent, its been intersting to see that Keith has taken the Cool Catz model (and taken over the old Cool Catz vanue, Knutford )

Can I ask, what *is* the Cool Catz model? I'm sure I'd make more sense of this if I knew.

[Gus]

Can I ask, what *is* the Cool Catz model? I'm sure I'd make more sense of this if I knew.

Probably similar to the Jango model, but without the skillbase of Amir or Kate ( ). We taught two lessons, the first (taught by Chris Taylor) were the basics of WCS as could be understood by Jivers. The second lesson (taught be me) was Modern Jive moves but with the emphasis on different aspects of technique, e.g. tension and compression, using half beats and breaks, shines etc.

The music was designed to back this up by encouraging people to dance and interpret rather than just do moves. NO KYLIE ... but played a lot of Gotan, Latin fusion, nu Swing etc. To give credit where credit was due, the music style was inspired by Peter Phillips who, at that time, was the only DJ I'd heard taking risks. Nice concept but failed to pull in the punters.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Probably similar to the Jango model, but without the skillbase of Amir or Kate ( ). We taught two lessons, the first (taught by Chris Taylor) were the basics of WCS as could be understood by Jivers. The second lesson (taught be me) was Modern Jive moves but with the emphasis on different aspects of technique, e.g. tension and compression, using half beats and breaks, shines etc.

The music was designed to back this up by encouraging people to dance and interpret rather than just do moves. NO KYLIE ... but played a lot of Gotan, Latin fusion, nu Swing etc. To give credit where credit was due, the music style was inspired by Peter Phillips who, at that time, was the only DJ I'd heard taking risks. Nice concept but failed to pull in the punters.

Ta. Sounds very cerebral, like Jango really.

[straycat]

Maybe the model does work, but it has to be supported by effective marketing.

Well - having been to Revolution a couple of times now, it certainly seems to be working. Haven't been able to attend a full weekday evening, so can't really comment on the structure, but as for the results, it seems popular, and we had a great time on both visits. Yes, the music was great, but far more than that, the attitude of the dancers made it for us each time. Generally speaking, the musicality / connection / playfulness of the dancers was the best of any venue I can remember.

More importantly than that, I think, as you say, so much of it's in the marketing. If you don't get that right, it doesn't matter how good your end product is, it won't sell. There's more'n one utterly uninspiring club which does extremely well *cough* Mo'Jive *cough*, 'cos they have the marketing right, and the reverse is all-too-often true. It takes a lot of time and energy to market something like this properly - and Keith and Janey seem to be pretty aware of this, which is a Good Thing(TM)

Best of luck to them. They deserve it.

[Gus]

Generally speaking, the musicality / connection / playfulness of the dancers was the best of any venue I can remember.

Yup. Although Revolution hasn't been going long enough to develop its 'own dancers' it been very succesful at attracting some of the better dancers who have become bored with the standard clubs, especially with the demise of Bowden. It probably comes back to the age old debate about 'Ceroc'-type clubs only being able to retain dnacers up to a certain lveel, then they have to go elsewhere for their fun. Of course thats not a universal comment, clubs like Ceroc Twyford seem to manage to pull in the 'advanced dancers' (whole thread there ) but the local Blitz and Ceroc dancers have little to offer dancers who want better quality music and dancers

[Donna]

Yup. Although Revolution hasn't been going long enough to develop its 'own dancers' it been very succesful at attracting some of the better dancers who have become bored with the standard clubs, especially with the demise of Bowden. It probably comes back to the age old debate about 'Ceroc'-type clubs only being able to retain dnacers up to a certain lveel, then they have to go elsewhere for their fun. Of course thats not a universal comment, clubs like Ceroc Twyford seem to manage to pull in the 'advanced dancers' (whole thread there ) but the local Blitz and Ceroc dancers have little to offer dancers who want better quality music and dancers

It's the same with the club in Wrexham - it makes better money out of the beginners but then the dancers only reach a certain level there and want to continue progressing, so then they move onto Blitz in Chester. I find most of the dancers up here, once reached intermediate level, are looking for somewhere to improve, and those venues that tend to focus more on style and technique are usually more successful.

[Keith]

Probably similar to the Jango model, but without the skillbase of Amir or Kate ( ). We taught two lessons, the first (taught by Chris Taylor) were the basics of WCS as could be understood by Jivers. The second lesson (taught be me) was Modern Jive moves but with the emphasis on different aspects of technique, e.g. tension and compression, using half beats and breaks, shines etc.

The music was designed to back this up by encouraging people to dance and interpret rather than just do moves. NO KYLIE ... but played a lot of Gotan, Latin fusion, nu Swing etc. To give credit where credit was due, the music style was inspired by Peter Phillips who, at that time, was the only DJ I'd heard taking risks. Nice concept but failed to pull in the punters.

Hi Gus,
Thank you for your comments, just a couple of quick corrections though, as Revolution Dance has always had its own 'Model'.
1) I didn't realise you had a 'Model', nor that you had Knutsford. What made you give it up? I only came to your Ceroc Classes & a few Cool Cats at Northwich.
2) Our Model is based on change, so we can keep moving on as the dancers requirements and ability changes. To help in this area we have a feedback form we leave on the tables each quarter, besides using my own observations.
3) To start with some of the music we used was very kindly donated by Marc Forster and Jon Brett, although Beccy & Neil are now sourcing all their own & doing a fantastic job at it.
4) Our main emphasis is on a dam good friendly social night with a very approachable team.
5) I hope that with our innovative tunes & friendly approach, besides in depth beginners & unusual intermediate and advanced moves, we can not only retain our beginners, who so far are enjoying themselves immensely & cannot get enough! But also give our experienced dancers what they want.

I started dancing 11 years ago & loved it so much, having had it change my life for the better. I just want to give some of this back & enjoy watching others have great fun, I think this helps, as it eliminates all politics as my only interest is dancers enjoying themselves (Living proof is that I tell & advertise of other venues to all my dancers, even venues on the same night).