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Thread: Muggles and musicality

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    Muggles and musicality

    < >The average "muggle" dancer is more musical than the average MJ dancer. Their dancing is solely about musicality, and they don't have a repertoire of moves to fall back on. The tendency of some MJ dancers to dismiss "muggles" is a sign of weakness, not strength.< / >
    Last edited by MartinHarper; 6th-February-2005 at 11:50 PM.

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    < >The average "muggle" dancer is more musical than the average MJ dancer. Their dancing is solely about musicality, and they don't have a repertoire of moves to fall back on. The tendency of some MJ dancers to dismiss "muggles" is a sign of weakness, not strength.< / >
    That's fightin' talk me lad !!!

    I await reaction with interest.

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    < >The average "muggle" dancer is more musical than the average MJ dancer. Their dancing is solely about musicality, and they don't have a repertoire of moves to fall back on. The tendency of some MJ dancers to dismiss "muggles" is a sign of weakness, not strength.< / >
    In that case the avergae muggle dancing ability must be much higher where you are than in these parts. Good muggle dancers may have their share of musicality, but from what I've seen the average ones can keep time and that's about it.

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    < >The average "muggle" dancer is more musical than the average MJ dancer. Their dancing is solely about musicality, and they don't have a repertoire of moves to fall back on. The tendency of some MJ dancers to dismiss "muggles" is a sign of weakness, not strength.< / >
    You dance with the muggles. I'll stick to Foxylady and Sparkles (if I get chance).

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    The 'average muggle dancer' (the men, at any rate) is far too scared at any dance venue to unstick his jiggling backside from the nearest wall until he's so plastered or E'd up that he has about as much musicality left in him as a deep-frozen shepherd's pie.

    And what Eric said.

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    < >The average "muggle" dancer is more musical than the average MJ dancer. Their dancing is solely about musicality, and they don't have a repertoire of moves to fall back on. The tendency of some MJ dancers to dismiss "muggles" is a sign of weakness, not strength.< / >
    If a muggles leader was completely comfortable about his or her ability to lead based on musicality and not worried about lack of 'move' repertoire, then I would be inclined to agree with you. However, in practice, I've never met such an animal. You also cannot make the assumption that a "muggle" dancer or MJ dancer has musicality.

    I do however, have the most entertaining vision of a follower "dismissing" a muggle dancer like a stern headmistress addressing assembly.

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    The 'average muggle dancer' (the men, at any rate) is far too scared at any dance venue to unstick his jiggling backside from the nearest wall until he's so plastered or E'd up that he has about as much musicality left in him as a deep-frozen shepherd's pie.

    And what Eric said.
    beautifully put
    was going to make a similar post and this is the very reason why I started Ceroc /Modern Jive


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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    < >The average "muggle" dancer is more musical than the average MJ dancer. < / >
    And your evidence for this bold statistical assertion is .... ??

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    < >
    Their dancing is solely about musicality, and they don't have a repertoire of moves to fall back on. .< / >
    I see where you are coming from Mr. H if you mean that an "uninstructed" dancer probably is just "Responding" to the music rather than trying to fit a pre-determined set of steps to the beat. That's why I find ball-room unwatchable and down-right robotic. Catherine, I am prepared to be shown the error of my ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    < >
    The tendency of some MJ dancers to dismiss "muggles" is a sign of weakness, not strength.< / >
    Although I would not use your language, I do agree with you (on something) - why criticise other's dance if it does not get in the way of you enjoying - and doesn't scare the horses, of course?

    CRL

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    I think dance musicality is on a continuum across the population regardless of what dance styles they choose to indulge in. i.e. there will be a range from total lack of coordination and inability to follow a rhythm to extreme awareness of music combined with the physical skills to express it.

    Watching muggles dance, especially ones who aren't teenagers any more, it's obvious that many people don't really feel that comfortable with the kind of physical self-expression that dancing requires. At least the MJ group have self-selected on the basis of interest in dance so we should expect levels of musicality to be higher.

    But I think solo dancing is to be encouraged as a means to developing musicality. I think this has been mentioned on the 101 Ways thread - learn to dance confidently on your own before taking on the myriad complexities of a partner dance, because solo dancing gives you total freedom. It's also easier to be uninhibited when you don't have to worry about making mistakes or about your dance partner's opinion of your performance. Muggle dancing can give you the opportunity to practise and learn to express features of the music using different parts of the body and to get used to listening carefully. I think it's true that, especially in the early days of learning to MJ the "repertoire of moves" is an obstacle to self-expression, as is the need to consider your partner. Eventually, hopefully, people learn to use personal expression within the strict framework of the moves, which for me, is becoming one of the most fascinating features of a partner dance.

    I love the brutal description of male muggles. But why do you think that this only applies to muggles? Just attend one of those style/musicality workshops at a weekender and see the look of total terror and confusion on the faces of some MJing men at the suggestion that they might have to wiggle their @rse! Or even move their feet around.

    When I went to salsa classes there would always be beginner guys who were totally out of their depth because not only were they struggling with footwork, partner, @rse etc, they had never listened to that type of music before, had never given themselves any opportunity to unconsciously internalise the complex rhythms and had no idea how the music might drive the movement. A spot of muggle dancing would have helped a lot with this. IMHO. And also applies to MJ.

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat
    I love the brutal description of male muggles. But why do you think that this only applies to muggles? Just attend one of those style/musicality workshops at a weekender and see the look of total terror and confusion on the faces of some MJing men at the suggestion that they might have to wiggle their @rse! Or even move their feet around.
    (There's no need to go even to that length - if I want to see the Look Of Terror I just wait for a bad day and use a mirror.)

    I think the first part of learning to dance is letting go of the fear of looking stupid or uncoordinated. I'm guessing that most muggles can't clear that first hurdle. But I don't think it applies just to muggles at all - I think the same thing applies to dancers at all levels who want to improve.

    With solo dancing you are forced to accept that people are going to be looking at *you* - whereas with a partner you can tell yourself that it is entirely she who is getting the (any?) attention. I find it much harder to dance alone (in a club, say) for that reason.

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    With solo dancing you are forced to accept that people are going to be looking at *you* - whereas with a partner you can tell yourself that it is entirely she who is getting the (any?) attention.
    ?? I think I dissagree - solo dancing has exactly the same mentality; the fewer dancers on the floor, the more reluctant self-conceous people are to dance. If there is already a croud on the dance floor, who do you look for/look at/watch? Would it be the advanced dancers who seem to have an aura about them, or the newbies struggling to remember what moves they know?

    If you're self conceous, dance next to a good dancer - everyone will be watching them and you can get on and enjoy yourself.

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    < >The average "muggle" dancer is more musical than the average MJ dancer. Their dancing is solely about musicality, and they don't have a repertoire of moves to fall back on. The tendency of some MJ dancers to dismiss "muggles" is a sign of weakness, not strength.< / >
    What exactly is a "muggle"?

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    (There's no need to go even to that length - if I want to see the Look Of Terror I just wait for a bad day and use a mirror.)


    I think the first part of learning to dance is letting go of the fear of looking stupid or uncoordinated.
    Wasn't merely a fear in my case.



    With solo dancing you are forced to accept that people are going to be looking at *you*
    Not if you do it in the privacy of your own kitchen/dining room/front room as various forumites have confessed to!

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    BM & El SG
    I can see the point the thread starter is making, and although in general I agree with El SG here I can also say that I have had some great fun in clubs dancing with guys who are playing with the music - maybe you've just been to the wrong places (or maybe I've just been to the right ones?)?
    The thing is, though, that 'muggle' dancing has never, for me, measured up to partner dancing. Maybe it's just that it has been bread and butter for me for years, but the music and dancing experience has always meant much more to me when shared with a partner, especially if they are a close friend or partner . As far as musicality goes, if it's a choice between hitting every break and doing moves that (I think) fit the music on my own or doing a partner dance and missing one or two, I'd pick the latter every time!
    S. x

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Surely this is all about learning and imitation? If you watch muggles dancing, you will usually see people trying to express something that matches the music (to take an embarrassing and simple example, think of "YMCA").
    In my partner dancing experience, it was many years before I saw anything that registered as musicality, and just as long before it was mentioned in lessons, even at a very basic level. (OK, I might have considered that certain moves were more suitable for some types of music than for others, but that's as far as it went.)
    I still don't think I have ever been to a Ceroc lesson where musicality has been mentioned, so if people are learning by imitation, it's no wonder that it takes time. After all, the hard pressed male brain is struggling just to think of and remember the moves, and the "compartment" that has moves in it, doesn't link too well to the bit that is "embarrassing dancing round the handbags as a teenager reacting to the woman you're trying to pull as she reacts to the music."

    Greg

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat
    But I think solo dancing is to be encouraged as a means to developing musicality. I think this has been mentioned on the 101 Ways thread - learn to dance confidently on your own before taking on the myriad complexities of a partner dance, because solo dancing gives you total freedom. It's also easier to be uninhibited when you don't have to worry about making mistakes or about your dance partner's opinion of your performance. Muggle dancing can give you the opportunity to practise and learn to express features of the music using different parts of the body and to get used to listening carefully. I think it's true that, especially in the early days of learning to MJ the "repertoire of moves" is an obstacle to self-expression, as is the need to consider your partner. Eventually, hopefully, people learn to use personal expression within the strict framework of the moves, which for me, is becoming one of the most fascinating features of a partner dance.
    I was thinking about this yesterday. I have always loved dancing - ie moving my body to respond to the music. My first few evenings after having 2 MJ classes I actually preferred to get up and just dance rather than MJ because I felt I had no freedom to respond to the music. Then I began to learn about lead and follow and was concentrating most on responding to the lead rather than the music, and hoping that the lead was responding to the music. But I noticed at Scarborough I was starting to feel a little more confident and getting that 'expressing' the music back into my dancing. And it was great!

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Is this thread SERIOUSLY discussing some Harry Potter drivel?

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by mick
    Is this thread SERIOUSLY discussing some Harry Potter drivel?
    Yes. If you don't like it, go take it up with Dumbledore.

    Now if you'll all excuse me, after my experiences at a venue last night I clearly have a lot of work to do brushing up on my Defenses against the Dark Arts...

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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    after my experiences at a venue last night I clearly have a lot of work to do brushing up on my Defenses against the Dark Arts...
    Prey tell
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
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    Re: Muggles and musicality

    Only kidding. It was a beautiful beautiful evening.

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