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Thread: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

  1. #21
    Registered User Stubob's Avatar
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Gus, I think you are jock-bating

    I view myself as Scottish because this is the country where I was born and raised. I also see myself as British, I served in the Armed Forces and I support the British & Irish Lions when they tour. I have no problem with this.

    Your original post was intended as a wind-up, however I personally think it was rather childish

    Stuart

  2. #22
    Registered User Magic Hans's Avatar
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubob
    Gus, I think you are jock-bating
    ...


    However, bait in the water [ .... that reminds me of a song!!] .... is absolutely useless without willing or interested fish.


    ..... mind ..... it's all very well getting a little nibble from a minnow ..... but ..... ravaged by a shoal of piranhas or a great white ...... is a different kettle of ....... errrrrrr ...... fish!! hehehe

    [aside: would a group of flying fish be a flock??]

  3. #23
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Hans


    However, bait in the water [ .... that reminds me of a song!!] .... is absolutely useless without willing or interested fish.
    Unless you use dynamite

  4. #24
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubob
    Your original post was intended as a wind-up, however I personally think it was rather childish
    Actually, if you'd bothered to read the subsequent post, it was an attempt to get some real debate and ideas about the concepts of nationalism. The Forum is an area for fun, information and debate about real and imaginary issues. We’ve previously debated in wonderful style religion, sexual orientation etc. So what is wrong with an open opportunity to debate the concept of nationalism within the British isles? I made my own feelings very clear (I’m as much Scottish as I am English) .... so what particularly is childish??? What I DO find childish is the attitude that "I believe X to be right therefore anyone who doesn’t agree is WRONG" ... isn’t that a tad more worrying?

  5. #25
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    so what particularly is childish??? What I DO find childish is the attitude that "I believe X to be right therefore anyone who doesn’t agree is WRONG" ... isn’t that a tad more worrying?
    I thought it was a reasonable thread to encourage debate. However, you did take the path of encouraging us to defend our Nationhood by suggesting we abolish the "States" of Wales and Scotland without mention of England. The fact of the situation is that Wales and Scotland are seperate countries/nations because of their history, so should we ignore history and pretend the borders are different ? No. I cant see any reason to .

  6. #26
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubob
    Gus, I think you are jock-bating
    Hmm...got the 'bating bit right Stubob

  7. #27
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    With the EU becoming more powerful I think talk of fragmenting countries is going against the flow - therefore I'm all for it

    But, one thing that is becoming clearer and clearer to me is that Scotland has a national identity and so does Wales - but the English are somehow ashamed to show their identity in public. And they don't even get their own goverment or assembly
    Last edited by Andy McGregor; 14th-January-2005 at 08:19 PM.

  8. #28
    Registered User Bangers & Mash's Avatar
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Abolish the states of Wales and Scotland ....
    You can't abolish Scotland Gus, cos then people like me would have nowhere to go when we were sick to the back teeth of England and it's crappy government.

    Infact, perhaps we should get Black Watch to instigate a military coup and use the Briitish, Scottish and Welsh troops who were sent to their deaths by "misinformation" to usurp the idiots that sent them.

    If the "states" should be united, it should be for that purpose and that purpose alone.

    Frankly, Scotland has a great national identity which many of the Scots carry with pride. More than can be said for the British nowadays.

  9. #29
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    You can't abolish Scotland Gus, cos then people like me would have nowhere to go when we were sick to the back teeth of England and it's crappy government.

    Infact, perhaps we should get Black Watch to instigate a military coup and use the Briitish, Scottish and Welsh troops who were sent to their deaths by "misinformation" to usurp the idiots that sent them.

    If the "states" should be united, it should be for that purpose and that purpose alone.

    Frankly, Scotland has a great national identity which many of the Scots carry with pride. More than can be said for the British nowadays.
    Last edited by Lindsay; 15th-January-2005 at 02:24 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangers & Mash
    Infact, perhaps we should get Black Watch to instigate a military coup and use the Briitish, Scottish and Welsh troops who were sent to their deaths by "misinformation" to usurp the idiots that sent them.

    Frankly, Scotland has a great national identity which many of the Scots carry with pride. More than can be said for the British nowadays.
    Erm.....youv'e used this term twice in this thread ...and once in another......
    Shouldn't it be ENGLISH, Scots & welsh troops....and " more than can be said for the ENGLISH nowadays"..
    Last time I checked, although Scotland & wales had their own assemblies, they wre still British

  11. #31
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    But, one thing that is becoming clearer and clearer to me is that Scotland has a national identity and so does Wales - but the English are somehow ashamed to show their identity in public. And they don't even get their own goverment or assembly

    That may actually be the core of the 'problem' - England don't actually have a "national identity"*, therefore see the "British" identity as their own and hence the terms interchangable.

    * What makes "National Identity"? Anthem, Dance, Dress, Language, instrament, ...? Does England have any of these that is not a regional phenominon rather than an encompasing English one?

  12. #32
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    An American once said to me (when I told her where I was from), "I love Edinburgh, it is one of England's most beautiful cities".

    Don't worry I explained that Scotland was a country in its own right: but she didn't believe me.

  13. #33
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsay
    An American once said to me (when I told her where I was from), "I love Edinburgh, it is one of England's most beautiful cities".

    Don't worry I explained that Scotland was a country in its own right: but she didn't believe me.
    Interesting. In the good old US of A there are many who reject the Federal Government and regard their State as the soverign power .... esepcailyi n some of the Southern states. I may be mistaken but I seem to remember that there are some Texans who see Texas as having the same status as , say Wales, Emgland pr Scotland. No wonder the Yanks have a hard time coming to grips with the fundamendal diffrences between the United States and the United Kingdom ... or are there fundamental differences ..... wasn't Texas at one time part of Mexico?

  14. #34
    Registered User Chicklet's Avatar
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    just been in California and swithed on NBC or ABC (I forget) thinking that as these were national stations their news would be International, then Domestic, then Local - wrong, even the so called "national" stations do local news for 95% of their morning programmes, this may be one of the things that contributes to the lack of understanding.

    ...that said, everyone I met (it was a relatively high level work trip) was very interested in the fact that I was Scots and not ONE made a sweeping statement or displayed a gross ignorance of the differences and/or common areas, not one thought that Glasgow was anywhere but Scotland, although most were suprised at how close it was to London and one wondered if I went there for a weekend most months

    so I suppose it's like so many other things in life, do we form opinions of the masses that are not then upheld in the individuals :question mark smilie:

    (..or maybe I was just lucky in meeting a high level, travelled, educated minority???? )

  15. #35
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    Re: The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    wasn't Texas at one time part of Mexico?
    Yes, but it became settled by Americans who decided they'd rather not belong to the Mexican empire and fought a war of independence (remember the Alamo ), which they managed to win despite superior Mexican forces.

    Just to take up Chicklet's point, most news coverage in the US is local - a minority of people are well-informed about geography and foreign affairs, but most people have never been outside the US, and are comparatively uninterested in international affairs. However many Americans routinely travel significant distances, so to them travelling 400 miles for a weekend would not be remarkable, and would be much less expensive than here - driving, flying, hotels and restaurants are all significantly cheaper.

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