The recognition of Scotland and Wales as states is meaningless!

[Gus]

{ODA Mode on FULL}
{Flameproof Shield to MAX}
{Passport and fast car on standby}

The UK (conviniently ignoring NI for the moment) is one land mass with whole set of 'regional' customs, dialects and ethnic origins. To perpetuate ancient divisions based on long dead historical incidents/accidents is both inefficient and a cuase for terrorisim and antagonisim. As much as the mis-use of religion, the use of statehood issues has caused much anguish, pain and violent conduct over the last 100 years. Its one island .. it shoud be one people with a common interest ... not divisionst interests and agendas.

Abolish the states of Wales and Scotland ....
{ODA Mode OFF}
{Keep engine running}

Inspired by a PM from Gadget admonishing me for my use of the terms the 'North'

[TheTramp]

{ODA Mode on FULL}
{Flameproof Shield to MAX}
{Passport and fast car on standby}

The UK (conviniently ignoring NI for the moment) is one land mass with whole set of 'regional' customs, dialects and ethnic origins. To perpetuate ancient divisions based on long dead historical incidents/accidents is both inefficient and a cuase for terrorisim and antagonisim. As much as the mis-use of religion, the use of statehood issues has caused much anguish, pain and violent conduct over the last 100 years. Its one island .. it shoud be one people with a common interest ... not divisionst interests and agendas.

Abolish the states of Wales and Scotland ....
{ODA Mode OFF}
{Keep engine running}

Inspired by a PM from Gadget admonishing me for my use of the terms the 'North'

No. I think that we should get rid of Englandshire, amalgamating it into the Republic of Scotland and Wales. A much better plan all round

[Will]

I think Gus' use of the label "States" as opposed to "Countries" when referring to Scotland & Wales is even more inflamatory!

And as if he didn't already deserve to be burned at the stake, notice he also plans to abolish Scotland & Wales, but not England.

Now, when we've all finished burning effergies of Mr Jefferies, we could consider Gus' wicked and vicious plan and have a more "Neutral" name for the one new country.

SWiNGland for example?

Will

P.s. If anyone wants Gus' home address, then just let me know and I'll post it up

[Graham]

One could just as well argue that the existence of multiple Christian denominations has caused much anguish, pain and violent conduct. Do you also advocate the abolition of all save, say, the Catholic Church?

Your argument implies that there is reason to believe that there will be further anguish, pain and violent conduct in the future (although I personally think you're overstating the amount of this there has been in the past, at least as far as Scotland is concerned). What makes you think this is the case, and how will it manifest itself?

[CJ]

SWiNGland for example?

Surely you mean "SwingEland" no??!!?!?

Gus, I like your thinking. Let's just make Europe, Africa and Asia single countries, too. Hell, they are just 3 individual land masses.

[Gus]

I think Gus' use of the label "States" as opposed to "Countries" when referring to Scotland & Wales is even more inflamatory!:

Intersting that that is seen as inflmanatory ... its also intersting that with all the blustering none of the neo-nationalists (sounds good ... will have to find out what ot means) have come up with a cogent argument for Scotland Stats and Wales state to exist..... Looks like I'll have to wait for DD or Gadget to join in before I get any proper debate

And as if he didn't already deserve to be burned at the stake, .......:

Thats rich coming from a Man City supporter!

Now, when we've all finished burning effergies of Mr Jefferies, we could consider Gus' wicked and vicious plan and have a more "Neutral" name for the one new country.:

Maybe we could have a refurendum ... wonder how much fun that would be....

[Dreadful Scathe]

The UK (conviniently ignoring NI for the moment) is one land mass with whole set of 'regional' customs, dialects and ethnic origins.

If you're talking about the U.K. then you can't ignore Northern Ireland because it is part of it. The united kingdom is made up of Great Britain and Northern ireland and is not one land mass. So what you are actualy talking about is Great Britain. Thats not even being pedantic its a definition, read your passport .

Abolish the states of Wales and Scotland ....

What states are they then? They are seperate countries but part of the UK. Europe is such that even previously sworn enemies share laws and a common currency and its about time the UK joined up, its quite possible to maintain seperate identies at the same time.

[Gus]

What states are they then? They are seperate countries but part of the UK. Europe is such that even previously sworn enemies share laws and a common currency and its about time the UK joined up, its quite possible to maintain seperate identies at the same time.

So WHAT!! Give me a good reason why we should identify Scotland as a Nation and not just as Northern UK?

[Dreadful Scathe]

So WHAT!! Give me a good reason why we should identify Scotland as a Nation

"Why we should?" Who are the people that deny Scotland and Wales are nations ?

and not just as Northern UK?

Hmm, you're suggesting you should call Scotland Northern UK, which it clearly IS ! You have already had an argument with Gadget about calling down your way 'Northern' which it clearly ISN'T. Its about time you you called that part of the UK "the midlands" So Im not sure what you're getting at here - you WANT to call Scotland "the North" now ? You are now on mine and Gadgets side then ?

Scotland is a nation AND Northern UK.

read this for the makeup of the distinct nations of the United kingdom. You need an education

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_kingdom

[Gadget]

I don't think Guss will mind; this is a copy of the PM dialogue...

I think it would be a good topic for a thread. Howveer, I am less than convinced by your logic.

Gus

Gadget my man ... its no raceisim .. its geogrphy ... the UK is (even on UK-Jive) somthing like;

• South East
• South West
• Midlands
• Wales
• North West
• North East
• Scotland

N'est Pas?

Indeed, but "North East" and "North West" are abbreviations* used politically** and commonly used in the media. While I know that "North" was intended to indicate "North East & North West", it is commonly used in the media to indicate anything/everything above the midlands: including Scotland.

{* "South East" and "South West" need no abbreviation because the names hold true no matter if you are reffering to the UK, Britian or England.
The "Midlands" is not a compass point or geographical reference - it's a proper name used to describe the middle section of England.
"North East" and "North West" are abbreviated from "North East England" and "North West England"}

{**Note: political divide rather than geographical: NE & NW of England are actualy central to Britian}

[Dreadful Scathe]

I don't think Guss will mind; this is a copy of the PM dialogue...

its ok Gadget he agrees with us now

[Graham]

So WHAT!! Give me a good reason why we should identify Scotland as a Nation and not just as Northern UK?

It's customary when proposing a change to outline the benefits derived from the change, rather than question the benefits of the status quo. Give me a good reason why we shouldn't continue to class Scotland as a nation? Are there any other nations you think we should be getting rid of? Denmark, perhaps, or Slovakia?

Also, why did you ignore my previous post?

[Gus]

It's customary when proposing a change to outline the benefits derived from the change, rather than question the benefits of the status quo. Give me a good reason why we shouldn't continue to class Scotland as a nation? Are there any other nations you think we should be getting rid of? Denmark, perhaps, or Slovakia?

Also, why did you ignore my previous post?

Come on guys ... this was meant as a bit of fun ... Full ODA mode etc. ..... if someone wants to take it seriously then fine. My personal view is that the maintence of the POSITIVE tradiions and culture of the home nations is a vital thing, especialy in the face of increasing immigration cultures and the interference from Brussels. Be it Politics, Nationalisim, Football or Regilion people will always find a devisive way to fight other people so I dont actualy believe that being British would be any beter than being English .... I was just looking for someone to find a POSITIVE case for Nationlaisim .. I think it speaks volumes that all that could be mustered were defensive attacks on the original question....

[CJ]

Also, why did you ignore my previous post?

Well, you will make a relevant, cogent point!!

Don't take it personally, is Gus' way to flame the retards and ignore any response from someone with an intelligent answer.

(or an IQ over 14)

Now that you've suggested it, getting rid of Slovakia might be no bad thing: we might go up to 176 on the FIFA rankings!!

[Graham]

I think it speaks volumes that all that could be mustered were defensive attacks on the original question....

I think it's vital to the cohesion of society that people feel some common bond with which they can identify. Originally, the common bond was provided by genetic links. Village culture is not too much different from tribal culture - essentially the common bond is that everyone knows each other. Now that we are a metropolitan culture, most of us feel much less of a common bond with our fellow-citizens, although there are cities such as Liverpool where this is still comparatively strong. Since the principle organisation in modern society is the nation (most laws which govern the conduct of individuals in order to structure a stable society are implemented at a national level) it is clearly important for the citizens of any nation to feel the common bond with their fellow-nationals. In the USA, I would say that the symbol of that common bond is the flag, with other important facets being the constitution and a capitalist economy. In the UK, the sense of national identity at a UK level is nowadays relatively weak (having previously derived largely from the existence of the British Empire), whereas the sense of cultural identity at the level of the home nations has strengthened. I would therefore submit that rather than trying to reinvent the UK, it is more sensible to work with these existing strong cultural bonds, and therefore to retain the identities of Scotland and Wales.

[Dreadful Scathe]

I was just looking for someone to find a POSITIVE case for Nationlaisim .. I think it speaks volumes that all that could be mustered were defensive attacks on the original question....

Hmm but Scotland and Wales ARE nations, so it seems to me like you're asking us to say why a Ferrari should be a sports car. It already is. Isn't the onus on you to say why it shouldnt be or to ask us to do so? If you do want us instead to defend the abolition of those Nations you should have made it clearer.
But assuming that is the case I can say that there are clear differences in language, culture, law, economy and social structure between the 3 Nations on mainland Britain (especially between Scotland and England/Wales ;they are considered as one for many things). To abolish their Nation or Country title would be fine if its seen as just a lable but the people would still see themselves a certain way. This is clear all over Europe - The Northern Germans seem themselves differently to the Bavarians, North and South Italy Ive heard have a similar divide.


Also, no need for YOU to get defensive we all appreciate interesting topics. I enjoy the scathing remarks myself

[Bill]

Surely you mean "SwingEland" no??!!?!?

Gus, I like your thinking. Let's just make Europe, Africa and Asia single countries, too. Hell, they are just 3 individual land masses.

Was it 3 land masses in 1984??? I should remember but its a while since I read it...............

[Graham]

I think it was three superpowers, rather than three land-masses (Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia, presumably based on NATO, USSR and PRC)

[Dreadful Scathe]

Yeah and Eurasia was always at war with Eastasia the evil warmongers. Or was it Oceania ? And you forgot the evil state of Nantwich

[filthycute]

Busy eating my tea then off to Perth, so don't have time to read everything before i go.......
Can someone kill gus before i come home tonight???

Sorry dahling.........you can't ever ever ever come to Scotchland again now

filthycute x x