Trade Unions. Good or bad?

[Andy McGregor]

This what I was getting at in my last paragraph of that post Nursery Nurses do a 'less important' job i.e. NOT doing it is unlikely to cost lives, than Firefighters do.

I wasn't really commenting on the importance of either job. Just the urgency with which each is required to do their job. We could go a day or two without Nursery Nurses and they could probably catch up later. Two days without a fire service and we could have serious problems.

[stewart38]

I just had a thought - Some people get paid way too much for what they do in the private sector.
I'm wondering now what firefighters would earn if they worked as private fire consultants ?

More proabably. Its supply and demand

[Dance Demon]

UK's most dangerous Jobs

1. Fishermen
2. Merchant seafarers
3. Aircraft flight deck officers
4. Railway lengthmen
5. Scaffolders
6. Roofers and glaziers
7. Forestry workers
8. Quarry and other mine workers
9. Dockers and stevedores
10. Lorry drivers

Not even in the top ten.

...I'm in the top ten...............Right then....I demand more money, and I want it NOW...in fact I want it yesterday, and I don't want any strings attached..........

[Bangers & Mash]

I had a whole spiel in response to this thread but I decided that I wanted to comment on some of the side issues instead - since they are particularly close to home.

To comment on the main thread first - I think unions are a necessary evil. In an ideal world they wouldn't be needed - but unfortunately we do. So long as they remember they are representing the workforce and so long as employers and government alike remember the same - they are a vehicle to a brighter future for all.

Whatever the firemen get paid, they applied for the job, at those wages, knowing the conditions of service. No-one forced them to take the job

I have friends in the fire service, health service and the armed forces and I have friends from each who have died doing their duty - trapped in fires, legionnaires disease and MRSA, and caught in the line of fire.

I chose my career in IT because I wanted money for little effort and largely in the past I have not been disappointed. That was my choice. The greatest risk for me is heart disease through lack of exercise, or being strangled on site

Many of the people in these services joined because they wanted to make a difference. They knew people who died or lost their homes in fires and wanted to join the fire service; they lost friends or family to cancer, accident or illness and wanted to join the health service; or they believed that freedom was a cause worth fighting for and joined to armed services.

Everybody knows you don't join the services for money - but what is wrong with giving a little more thought and respect to those people who do join - with pay, conditions and equipment.: instead of cheating them because they can't or won't strike through legal or moral obligation.

In my eyes, these people will never be paid enough!

Bangers

[TheTramp]

Everybody knows you don't join the services for money - but what is wrong with giving a little more thought and respect to those people who do join - with pay, conditions and equipment.: instead of cheating them because they can't or won't strike through legal or moral obligation.

In my eyes, these people will never be paid enough!

Looking at the figures quoted in previous posts - and I'll restrict this answer to the fire-service, since I don't have the time (or energy) to look into the other services - it seems that people who work in these services currently earn more than the average wage. And for those people who reach the 'top' of the fire-service tree, it seems a large amount more. I certainly wouldn't mind a £40,000, or even a £20,000 a year pension when I'm mid 50's. My father retired at the age of 64 last year, after working in the same job for nearly 30 years (I think), and his pension isn't even close to that figure.

So, I really don't think that they are being that cheated on the pay front.

I'm sure that some of the people working in the services have joined because it is their vocation. I'm equally sure that some have joined because they wouldn't be able to earn above the average wage in any other job, or for a variety of other reasons. Either way, it is still their choice, and it doesn't seem that bad a pay scheme to me.

I still respect the people who do the job. And of course, your opinion.

[Bangers & Mash]

Looking at the figures quoted in previous posts - and I'll restrict this answer to the fire-service, since I don't have the time (or energy) to look into the other services - it seems that people who work in these services currently earn more than the average wage. And for those people who reach the 'top' of the fire-service tree, it seems a large amount more. I certainly wouldn't mind a £40,000, or even a £20,000 a year pension when I'm mid 50's. My father retired at the age of 64 last year, after working in the same job for nearly 30 years (I think), and his pension isn't even close to that figure.

So, I really don't think that they are being cheated on the pay front.

I'm sure that some of the people working in the services have joined because it is their vocation. I'm equally sure that some have joined because they wouldn't be able to earn above the average wage in any other job. Either way, it is still their choice, and it doesn't seem that bad a pay scheme to me.

I still respect the people who do the job. And of course, your opinion.

[Dance Demon]

Re the Fireman thing..........Up here in Edinburgh, we have the Scottish Parlaiment, and a large number of MSPs who are paid obscene amounts of money for doing not very much. many of them can't even find the time to make it along to represent their constituents at the daily First Ministers question time. They receive all sorts of freebies, and expect to be exempt from things like the road tolls, that they are trying to push through. If you compare the salaries of these fat cats, to the salaries of the guys who put their lifes on the line to carry out their duties, it kinda puts it into perspective I think. I find it quite offensive when some sweaty money grabbing MP come s on TV , telling us how greedy these firemen are ...then pops out for a free lunch somewhere...

[Bangers & Mash]

Re the Fireman thing..........Up here in Edinburgh, we have the Scottish Parlaiment, and a large number of MSPs who are paid obscene amounts of money for doing not very much. many of them can't even find the time to make it along to represent their constituents at the daily First Ministers question time. They receive all sorts of freebies, and expect to be exempt from things like the road tolls, that they are trying to push through. If you compare the salaries of these fat cats, to the salaries of the guys who put their lifes on the line to carry out their duties, it kinda puts it into perspective I think. I find it quite offensive when some sweaty money grabbing MP come s on TV , telling us how greedy these firemen are ...then pops out for a free lunch somewhere...

I threatened to report our local MP back home as a missing person. He got really upset and snotty about it until I offered to publish the lengths I had gone to to try and get hold of him (including asking party HQ to get hold of him - they came back to me 3 days later and said they couldn't find him).

Since then, one of the local papers has threatened to do the same and ran an article on how crap he was.

This guy gets a salary and massive expenses which he uses to employ his wife!

I think we all know how crap this lot up here are - and their attitude to spending other peoples money.

All MPs and Council Executives should be forced to accept financial liability for their actions and decisions (bit like a lloyds name) such that if incompetence, fraud, theft, etc. are identified, they should be penalised financially.

(sorry - off thread but worth a rant! )



Anyway, back to thread...

I have a friend who remains now very active in the miners' union. I used to regard this union and Arthur Scargill as disruptive and politically motivated - more recently I have come to understand more that the miners' union

1. provides a sense of identity and community for the miners with miners travelling the length and breadth of the country to meet up
2. provides a whole set of packages to its members including pensions, assistance with medi-claims, negotiating damages, etc
3. Was pretty much right about pit closures at a time when the goverment was importing cheap(?) coal from south africa
4. funded the miners' union on south africa to give them a voice (and more conveniently force up the price of their coal)

In this respect I fully support the unions and applaud their efforts. I don't like people who persecute others who feel the need to continue working through disputes tho and was disappointed by the divisions caused by and that still exist because of the miners' strikes before.

The firemen had a very much more relaxed attitude - they were on strike, but they still went out and attended RTAs and Fires etc. The government saw this as weakness and division. I think moral dilemma better describes it.

[Dreadful Scathe]

If you compare the salaries of these fat cats, to the salaries of the guys who put their lifes on the line to carry out their duties, it kinda puts it into perspective I think.

It certainly does. Hypocrisy is rife. Another example of that was during the Nursery Nurses strike. The local councillors were the ones who did not want to give in and grant the Nursery nurses the pay rise they were looking for, but they managed in that time to vote themselves an increase on their own salaries, from £7,000 to £21,000 (for what amounts to a very part time job). Yes, tripled! The money spent on their pay rise for a hundred or so councillors would have covered the full increase wanted by all 6,000 nursery nurses. Hilarious .

[bigdjiver]

It should be mentioned that firemen work shifts, and it plays havoc with their dancing.