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Thread: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

  1. #101
    Registered User Yogi_Bear's Avatar
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    The seating arrangements will normally have a significant effect. In the first place they can form a physical barrier to getting on and off the dance floor, making it difficult to circulate around the room, approach a prospective partner, extricate oneself from point a to point b , and so on. Secondly the seating can be a profound psychological barrier. Partly because we feel more reluctant to approach someone and ask for a dance if they are sitting than if they are standing, and partly because of the physical difficulty of approaching someone shielded by several hefty tables and chairs. Too much seating can encourage clique formation - at least in how things come across to newcomers or those of a nervousdisposition....
    Of course, in the ideal world there would be no seating, everyone would stand...

  2. #102
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Hmmm, what is the ideal seating arrangement? From my limited London venue experience, I'm not keen on places like Hipsters and Hammersmith - big halls, few tables at one end and seats around the outside of the dance floor.

    I like the arrangements at Ashtons - tables all around the dance floor - but I think that's because there's a distinct non-dance space between the floor and the tables, so there's space to move without doing the "avoid-the-dancers" shuffle...

  3. #103
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    There is no ideal seating arrangement, because everybody wants different things, and different things at different times.

    People that love to dance will want to be able to come off the dance floor and have a new partner readily available, or to be easily reached, so seats all around the dance floor are best for them. People who want to spend time chatting and only dance with their friends, or when it suits them, will want to be well away from the dancefloor. People who want to watch whilst they chat will want a natural barrier between them and the floor. A glass screen or trellis works well, a few close tables between them and the floor, with no standing room, is a good compromise.

    The venue manager may have different objectives rom the dancers, and may want them to mix and dance. and not want to provide hiding places, or may want the attendees to not dance but consume expensive drinks instead.

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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    We have mentioned it before and I can again confirm that the MJ scene is not anywhere near as rude as the Salsa scene

    Last night I was at Bar Salsa after a very long time of absence. So I asked the first girl I came across for a dance. She looked at me and asked 'Can you dance? Because I don't want to teach right now.' My slight nod must have been too subtle due to my surprise of such a rude comment that she decided I probably could not dance. And off she walked. I just told here that this was very arrogant and she told me we'd have a dance later. Now this did not make things any better. She had to be a fool (which she obviously is, considering the arrogance) to believe that I would grant her even the hint of a dance.

    This was the second most rude turn down I have ever received, and again it was in Salsa.

    As we have noted before, really good dancers do not know such arrogance and she too could not dance anywhere near as good as she obviously thought she was.

    Unbelievable.

  5. #105
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    We have mentioned it before and I can again confirm that the MJ scene is not anywhere near as rude as the Salsa scene

    Definitely, in spades, especially in the Central London venues. Suburban local venues are more friendly, but still not as social as the average MJ venue.
    It's pretty amazing that some salsa dancers take themselves so seriously, considering it's such a relatively easy dance, but I think it's all part of the Latin American thing. And as for the standard of teaching, don't get me started...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    As we have noted before, really good dancers do not know such arrogance and she too could not dance anywhere near as good as she obviously thought she was.
    Always the case, isn't it? There are some lovely people and dancers in the salsa scene, but it's much more difficult to pick them out from the crowd. I've been turned down by relative beginners in salsa, it's far too much like a nightclub scene that way. Best revenge is to dance with someone else, in front of them, and show them what they missed out on

  6. #106
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    And as for the standard of teaching, don't get me started...
    me neither


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Best revenge is to dance with someone else, in front of them, and show them what they missed out on
    Well, I can't be bothered to make that effort but it sort of happens anyway as the dance floor isn't that big

  7. #107
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    I was disappointed with the apparent attitude of the guys at a venue we visited recently for a dance. Whilst numbers were similar there were a few extra women. It became clear to me that the same women were sat out for much of the night - these were all newish beginners & I danced with most of them at least once as did a friend from my local scene. Many of the local "good" men (a very loose term in this case) spent their time chasing a few "good" women - to me it looked like stalking the way some acted.

    It really depresses me to see this sort of attitude - whilst I don't advocate the two wrongs to a make a right attitude, I hope these beginners remember who these "good" men are so they can ignore them when they become good dancers in the future.

  8. #108
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Best revenge is to dance with someone else, in front of them, and show them what they missed out on
    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    I hope these beginners remember who these "good" men are so they can ignore them when they become good dancers in the future.
    What's all this talk of revenge? I can't see it's going to help anyone.

    I wish people just got on with their own dancing, concentrated on making their partners feel good on the dance floor, and on having a good night themselves...

    ... rather than wasting any time trying to work out how other people should be made to feel bad.



    It simply is not possible to know, from watching people at one venue on one night, whether or how much they give back to MJ in general by making an effort to dance with beginners, or anything else. You don't know whether they taxi somewhere else, or just chose to make that night a "for themselves" night.

    And if someone watches for long enough to gather enough evidence to make a judgement, then I'd contend they have too much time on their hands, and should dance more.

  9. #109
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA

    It simply is not possible to know, from watching people at one venue on one night, whether or how much they give back to MJ in general by making an effort to dance with beginners, or anything else. You don't know whether they taxi somewhere else, or just chose to make that night a "for themselves" night.
    I can agree with that for a small number of men but with a full venue for all men to have a valid reason for not dancing with beginners is implausible. It's not something I have been as struck by anywhere else - I've seen individual "strangers" have difficulties to get a partner, but not a largish number have to sit out large parts of the night.

    FYI I wasn't working out how to make people feel bad during the evening- I was concerned at how bad those ladies may have been feeling as the same few were selected time and again leaving them left on the side.

  10. #110
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    FYI I wasn't working out how to make people feel bad during the evening
    I didn't say you were.

    But when you said:

    I hope these beginners remember who these "good" men are so they can ignore them when they become good dancers in the future.
    .. then you are explicitly suggesting that people remember who turned them down or didn't ask them to dance for long enough to take revenge on them by doing the same thing to them - presumably to make them feel bad in the future.

    It's not what the MJ world needs. As you said, two wrongs don't make a right, so I don't know why you suggested it.

  11. #111
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    I was disappointed with the apparent attitude of the guys at a venue we visited recently for a dance.
    You have an implicit assumption there, that advanced guys have a duty to seek out beginners to dance with - I don't agree with that.

    Advanced and beginners both pay money to go out and enjoy themselves, and advanced dancers aren't unpaid teachers; in fact, that's what Ceroc has Taxi dancers for. So dancers shouldn't feel guilty about dancing with people they want to dance with; and if you try to impose a choice, they just won't come to the venue any more.

    Note: I'm certainly not advocating that advanced dancers should not dance with pretty much anyone who asks them, at whatever level. And certainly it's nice if advanced dancers do take the time to help out beginners. However, I don't think they should have an obligation to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    What's all this talk of revenge? I can't see it's going to help anyone.
    Hey, I'm just nasty that way - but I was talking about salsa, which in many London venues is a nasty scene, not lovely and cuddly like all MJ venues

  12. #112
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    It's nice if advanced dancers do take the time to help out beginners. However, I don't think they should have an obligation to do so..
    People are free to choose whether or not to be nice, provided that they are willing to accept the consequences of that choice.

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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    You have an implicit assumption there, that advanced guys have a duty to seek out beginners to dance with - I don't agree with that.
    Your assumption was that I was talking about advanced dancers - I was talking about most of the gents in the room, definitely not the advanced dancers alone.

    I certainly agree that people are free to choose to dance with whoever, I was saddened to see how few chose to dance with these particular ladies.

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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Bit of a dilemna here. I was asked for a dance the other night by somone I have never seen before who strode across the room making a direct bee line for me so I spotted him coming.

    The dance was a slow one and would lend itself to UCP stuff which I'm not too confortable with (do you know the number don't know its name but is punctuated with long breaks and meaningful lyrics such as "fi-re")

    So I avoided eye contact like mad, looked at the floor and hoped he would ask one of the women on either side of me. When I finally saw his shoes in front of me I looked up and accepted the dance.

    Half was through he blew a break I laughed and we enjoyed the dance. But I would rather have had that dance with him, as the first dance ever.

    What would you have done???

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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    I would like someone to teach the DJ's how to talk very, very occasionally, and pre-announce the more specialised tracks. E.G. as one track starts say after this "****" and then we get bluesy with "Fire". For me, too often "Fire" has to be a lukewarm hot-water bottle.

  16. #116
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    I would like someone to teach the DJ's how to talk very, very occasionally, and pre-announce the more specialised tracks. E.G. as one track starts say after this "****" and then we get bluesy with "Fire". For me, too often "Fire" has to be a lukewarm hot-water bottle.
    I dunno, I'm ambivalent about these voice-over things, I always think it cuts into my dancing time. On the other hand, I can see the advantages of an occasional bit of guidance - "We're now slowing it down a little". Although every time I think of a DJ doing that I imagine a cheesy Smashy-and-Nicey type voiceover...

    On balance, I think a DJ should generally let the music talk for them.

  17. #117
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    I dunno, I'm ambivalent about these voice-over things, I always think it cuts into my dancing time. On the other hand, I can see the advantages of an occasional bit of guidance - "We're now slowing it down a little".
    I remember being at a dance where there were a lot of singles, over 80 people there with about half on the dance floor - the DJ said that and completely cleared the floor for an entire track. Not even the couples got up. (He actually announced he was playing several slow songs but wisely gave up after one!). Not an MJ event of course or there would have been some folk getting bluesy!

  18. #118
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    I would like someone to teach the DJ's how to talk very, very occasionally, and pre-announce the more specialised tracks. E.G. as one track starts say after this "****" and then we get bluesy with "Fire". For me, too often "Fire" has to be a lukewarm hot-water bottle.
    Nope. I really dislike it when the DJs are talking. It all averages out in the end (getting the right dances with the right people I mean). But the DJ talking feels like an interruption to me....
    Last edited by TheTramp; 13th-April-2005 at 06:31 PM.

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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    I really dislike it when the DJs are talking.
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
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    Re: Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    Nope. I really dislike it when the DJs are talking. It all averages out in the end (getting the right dances with the right people I mean). But the DJ talking feels like an interruption to me....


    Hear, hear. So just keep yer mouth shut, Trampy!

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