Honest feedback/comments on venues and events

[David Bailey]

See my post above (No. 11)

OK, I'll bite

- Any negative response or feedback about a venue/event should be made to the organiser so that they can do something to put it right. If this feedback influences people and prevents them from turning up in future, then you have taken away their chance to improve.

On the other hand, public and transparent feedback makes it more difficult for them to ignore, and may add pressure on them to fix any problems, or at least respond to criticism.

- Every night is different.

and

- Opinion can only really be put down as "well, I liked it." personal tastes and opinions vary so much that you can't expect everyone to like the same things that you do.

These are good points (darn it )
But you could say that about any value judgement made by anyone about any day / week / weekender. I'm not trying to get authoritative reviews, giving definitive and final opinions, never to be challenged - just a bit more clarity about what people thought.

For example, it sounds like the recent Camber weekender was great, but it also sounds like there were lessons to be learned (strimmer man, tango class). Again, these "reviews" are on the forum already - I just want them to be a bit clearer and more easily-accessible.

Anyone who thinks that a negative review wouldn't be fiercely "debated" has probably not spent enough time in Usenet...

Most people here are 'passionate' about MJ, as such would be more likley to only post glowing reviews rather than negative ones

As indeed they do already. So, what's the problem with negative reviews then, if there won't be any?

By posting positive reviews, people may be attempting to get more/better dancers at their local/regular venue for themselves to dance with rather than an honest opinion.

Could be, I'd believe anything about these Evil Conspiratorial Ceroc Gods - but again, this happens already, I think most people can spot blatant advertising-diguised-as-discussion a mile off.

I just can't get past the fact that every night is different and you can't judge a venue without experianceing it for a long time - then it becomes irrelevant if a main factor changes like the DJ, teacher, "inspirational" dancers...

I agree that you can get more consistency if you've been a lot of times, but I also think you get value from a completely fresh viewpoint; first impressions are usually the most important ones.

Again, my main point is that people already post reviews, some of which have "lessons to learn" points - I just want them in one area rather than buried in, for example, the middle of the "Who's going to Camber" thread, because I can then search through them. These are valuable resources, and I'd like to be able to more easily access this information.

Obviously, as a grown-up (sometimes), I'll then make my own mind up, considering all factors, review comments by people being one of those factors. As I do now - I just want the job of finding review comments to be easier.

[clevedonboy]

Well, I'm going to make a crazy guess, without knowing Lou , that he has money to lose, the "Commercial Operator" tag possibly being a bit of a giveaway. And as an individual, he may have more to lose than an organisation would have, in percentage terms. Individuals are more creative than organisations.

You obviously don't know Lou

I do and her comments are impartial

It is a difficult topic in many ways as we can only really talk about our experience on a given night - a prime example would be last night at one of my favoured venues in Bristol. I had a "not very good time" but normallly I have a "very good time" so if i review the venue twice which would you go by?

[philsmove]

It s is not simply- I had a good time, I had a bad time

An example of how a forum can improve a class or dance

Several dances at a local and popular class, posted suggestions, that the class could be improved, if the timing of the classes and free style session was changed

While the beginners’ class was very popular, the numbers attending the intermediates varied

The organiser posted his ideas and this led to more suggestion

The organiser took note and changed the class times

Both beginners and intermediates are now full


At another venue, the organiser had a habit of playing the same compilation of tracks month after month

Following a few “comments” on the local forum, the organiser introduced guest DJs


I think every one is happy

[David Bailey]

You obviously don't know Lou

What gave that away?

I went by the comment of "him", and the tag of "commercial operator". Still, I'd never let the facts get in the way of my ranting...

It is a difficult topic in many ways as we can only really talk about our experience on a given night - a prime example would be last night at one of my favoured venues in Bristol. I had a "not very good time" but normallly I have a "very good time" so if i review the venue twice which would you go by?

Well, I'd say exactly what you said - let people make their own minds up.

As I said, it's not a "marks out of 10" situation, or even a grading situation - just give some details of what you thought of the place, the crowd, the dancers, the floor, the venue, the parking - you name it.

And yet again, I'd reiterate, it's exactly the same information as people do already on the forums - it just gets buried, and I'd like to see it in a "Review" tag so I know what I'm reading...

[philsmove]

Several dances at a local and popular class, posted suggestions, ..........

this should read seveal dancers.......

[Lou]

I went by the comment of "him", and the tag of "commercial operator". Still, I'd never let the facts get in the way of my ranting...

I'm not exactly a standard "Commercial Operator", either...

I took over a class from GrahamW for a few months. I'm a freelance substitute LeRoc teacher available & happy to stand-in for anyone who asks me. I'm a part-time web designer (I did Sherif's LeRoc2000 site) & at some point I plan to organise the odd tea dance. (I actually hate the "Commercial Operator" tag for the reasons apparent in your post - but Bradders suggested it because we non-Ceroc people may have evil intentions and are obviously biased & money oriented.... )

Oh. And I'm definitely female. You can tell by my red high heels I was wearing at St Bon's yesterday. (Sheena - the Rumpf Flamencos have come out of storage again.... )

Honestly. I am female.

Really.

I have witnesses.

[Bangers & Mash]

Paid my first visit to Stockport last night and had an absolutely brilliant time.
- The music was great,
- the dance floor was large and busy with people dancing all the time,
- the cabaret (lydia et al?) was absolutely superb as was the class they taught
(perhaps a little too much hip swinging for my poor body to cope with )
- and everybody was really friendly.


I'll be back there again!

[David Bailey]

we non-Ceroc people may have evil intentions and are obviously biased & money oriented....

Obviously, whereas Ceroc People Just Do it For Love.
Actually, that's a good T-shirt slogan...

Oh. And I'm definitely female. You can tell by my red high heels I was wearing at St Bon's yesterday. (Sheena - the Rumpf Flamencos have come out of storage again.... )

Well, apparently (CF Clive Long) that's not always definitive, but I'll certainly take your word for it. In case you were wondering, I am male, or so I'm told.

[Gus]

Paid my first visit to Stockport last night and had an absolutely brilliant time.
- The music was great,
- the dance floor was large and busy with people dancing all the time,
- the cabaret (lydia et al?) was absolutely superb as was the class they taught
(perhaps a little too much hip swinging for my poor body to cope with )
- and everybody was really friendly.


I'll be back there again!

Thats really strange. Had a late night text from two of my female mates who went. They said the music was dire, the dancers were even worse and swore NEVER to return!

[Bangers & Mash]

Thats really strange. Had a late night text from two of my female mates who went. They said the music was dire, the dancers were even worse and swore NEVER to return!

Oops! wonder if they danced with me?

[Minnie M]

Thats really strange. Had a late night text from two of my female mates who went. They said the music was dire, the dancers were even worse and swore NEVER to return!

From what I remember, the music in the main hall did have its hiccups and the standard of dancing there was also very mixed - however the 'blues & swing' room/area was packed with amazing dancers and fantastic music

[stewart38]

Im sitting on the fence on this one

I can see good and bad sides to both and i cant make my mind up !!

[Dance Demon]

From what I remember, the music in the main hall did have its hiccups and the standard of dancing there was also very mixed - however the 'blues & swing' room/area was packed with amazing dancers and fantastic music

Erm that was SOUTH port Minnie...not Stockport.....

[Bangers & Mash]

Erm that was SOUTH port Minnie...not Stockport.....

I'm so glad you cleared that up DD - I was beginning to think I had missed a whole dance floor at Stockport!

[Minnie M]

Erm that was SOUTH port Minnie...not Stockport.....

wooops senior moment

BTW I made a South Park character of my son Jack and emailed it him, with the subject "Southport Jack" - he was very confused

[Gadget]

OK, I'll bite

munch munch munch

On the other hand, public and transparent feedback makes it more difficult for them to ignore, and may add pressure on them to fix any problems, or at least respond to criticism.

But who gives this criticism? Only a minority who are unhappy with X,Y or Z. This minority is now dictating the direction that the venue/event takes. What happens if a criticism is listened to, then dissregarded as a one-off? Nothing changes, the venue is now branded as not being flexable or open to suggestion.

The main problem I see with "open" feedback is that only those who can be arsed to give feedback will - and only those who feel cheated/ hard done by/ criticised/ insulted/ let down...can get worked up enough to respond.

The other direction it may head towards would be a love-in where any negative feedback is washed over by fawning and pawing at the hems of the venue/event - any criticism is shot down by adoring fans as nonsense.

I'm not trying to get authoritative reviews, giving definitive and final opinions, never to be challenged - just a bit more clarity about what people thought

The other point about everyone's views being different is their background and the comparisons they can draw against: People who get taught by (eg*) Amar every week as their local teacher will expect every other teacher to be imilar to that. People who are used to having great floors to dance on will expect that. If they have a poor DJ, they will think that an average one is amazing...
... every view point is subjective and without knowing the 'baseline' the view is taken from, it's never going to be a 'definitive' opinion.


{* a name pulled from the forum - I couldn't say if he was better or worse than the local dance teacher who teaces my 3year old daughter.}

these "reviews" are on the forum already - I just want them to be a bit clearer and more easily-accessible.

Most threads like this are in the "social events" area. And the 'search' utility isn't that bad.

These {reviews} are valuable resources, and I'd like to be able to more easily access this information.

What is valuable about these histories? What information could be(/is) within them that could influence you?
Isn't the fact that they are burried within other threads give them more of a context?

[Gus]

What is valuable about these histories? What information could be(/is) within them that could influence you?
Isn't the fact that they are burried within other threads give them more of a context?

Gadget ... so you are saying that unless ALL reports are made on objective, scientific grounds with irrefutable evidence and backed by the confirmation of experts then all reports on teachers, clubs etc are worthless? COME ON!!! Get over this anal stuff. Like any other review or guide, you should look forward for peoples comments, adjust them as far as you can for their known bias and come to your own conclusion. To rubbish comments just because they aren't totally 'normalised' is really worrying.

ALL reviews, even the ones you might not agree with, are valuable input and should be praised not criticised!

[David Bailey]

But who gives this criticism? Only a minority who are unhappy with X,Y or Z.

Criticism is always done by a minority - think of the pitiful level of complaints the BBC gets even for controversial programmes. Doesn't mean it's irrelevant. Most people are so reluctant to criticise in this country, even a few complaints are usually a signifier of a generally low level of satisfaction.

This minority is now dictating the direction that the venue/event takes.

Hardly, anymore than a few complaints about a TV programme dictate the direction of programming. But complaints are listened to, and do usually force a response or defense, even if it's a "we're right, because..."

What happens if a criticism is listened to, then dissregarded as a one-off? Nothing changes, the venue is now branded as not being flexable or open to suggestion.

Not if a complaint is properly responded to. I think people are adult enough to realize that a venue organiser is responsible for, well, organising the venue, and should make decisions based on his/her vision; but if a complaint is ignored, yes, that's pretty much a definition of poor customer service in my opinion.

The main problem I see with "open" feedback is that only those who can be arsed to give feedback will - and only those who feel cheated/ hard done by/ criticised/ insulted/ let down...can get worked up enough to respond.

Totally - but that's the same with all complaints, everywhere. Active complaints are usually the tip of the iceberg. Are you saying you don't want a complaint culture?

The other direction it may head towards would be a love-in where any negative feedback is washed over by fawning and pawing at the hems of the venue/event - any criticism is shot down by adoring fans as nonsense.

Yeah, and there's a lot of that already... Hmmm, dunno what to do about that, apart from try it and see.

People who get taught by (eg*) Amar every week as their local teacher will expect every other teacher to be imilar to that. People who are used to having great floors to dance on will expect that. If they have a poor DJ, they will think that an average one is amazing...

I've got no problems with people aiming for a lesson from Amir, a great dance floor and a superior set of music - raising expectations is a Good Thing. I'd also imagine most venue organisers would aspire to that level...

a name pulled from the forum - I couldn't say if he was better or worse than the local dance teacher who teaces my 3year old daughter.

Well, without knowing your local 3-year-old dance teacher, who knows?
But Amir's pretty good...

Isn't the fact that they are burried within other threads give them more of a context?

As would these new-fangled hyperlink things, apparently.

Looking at the excellent LeRoc in Bristol site, reviews seem to work very well there - what are the problems with this already-working example?

[MartinHarper]

The Bristol site has the advantage of limiting its reviews to a specific number of local venues, which I think makes sense. If this forum had an official "review" section, should it limit itself to reviewing Scottish venues? Should it limit to only reviewing venues where the relevant organisers are OK with being publically reviewed?

[Lou]

The Bristol site has the advantage of limiting its reviews to a specific number of local venues, which I think makes sense.

Actually, there's a section for reviews of classes & dances outside Bristol, too.
The last topics cover Newbury, Swindon, Taunton, Gloucester, Cardiff, and even Worcester.

If this forum had an official "review" section, should it limit itself to reviewing Scottish venues?

I'd like to read reviews of classes anywhere. If a forumite has been to it, I'd be interested in his/her/its opinion.

Should it limit to only reviewing venues where the relevant organisers are OK with being publically reviewed?

If it's a public event, it's fair game in my opinion. And, after all, that's all the review would be - just opinion!