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Thread: Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

    Given whats happen in Russia, is there going to be a solution to global terrorism ?

    What can governments/people do ?

    Has terrorism and the shooting of children reached an all time low

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    Given whats happen in Russia, is there going to be a solution to global terrorism ?

    What can governments/people do ?

    Has terrorism and the shooting of children reached an all time low

    In previous years a good old traditional World War was a good cure to settle disputes.

    Dealing with despotic governments is far easier than despotic extreme religeous fanatic splinter groups of whatever persuasion.

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    Hostage taking does seem to be more the trend now, but have there actually been any cases of a Government giving in? I assume not, but it appears to be a fact of life that more extreme factions are prepared to go to any extremes to get there way. They are prepared to kill innocent people to justify their views. Surely these murders were not justifiable by any argument? Didn't Ghandi manage to get his view accross in an oppressed state without violence? If these hostage takers thought their hostages were guilty of a crime, they killed them without giving them the right to a fair trial.

    These people were not even able to consider their victims basic right to food and water - it was a horrendous act, but I just hope that revenge is not being planned.

    My heart goes out to those people who were touched by this dreadful event.


    Elaine

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB
    Hostage taking does seem to be more the trend now, but have there actually been any cases of a Government giving in? I assume not, but it appears to be a fact of life that more extreme factions are prepared to go to any extremes to get there way. They are prepared to kill innocent people to justify their views. Surely these murders were not justifiable by any argument? Didn't Ghandi manage to get his view accross in an oppressed state without violence? If these hostage takers thought their hostages were guilty of a crime, they killed them without giving them the right to a fair trial.

    These people were not even able to consider their victims basic right to food and water - it was a horrendous act, but I just hope that revenge is not being planned.

    My heart goes out to those people who were touched by this dreadful event.


    Elaine
    When the Chechens blew 2 planes out of the sky how much publicity did it get in the worlds press

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by under par
    When the Chechens blew 2 planes out of the sky how much publicity did it get in the worlds press
    Sorry got timed out for changes...

    When the Chechens blew 2 planes out of the sky last week how much publicity did it get in the worlds press then there was a car bomb in Moscow again did the worlds press get too excited, not really...

    So now if terrorists separatists etc. from any particular persuasion want to get their cause publicity what type of terrorist act do you think they will settle for?????

    The worse the act the more publicity....

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    Given whats happen in Russia, is there going to be a solution to global terrorism ?

    What can governments/people do ?

    Has terrorism and the shooting of children reached an all time low
    Its really sad, unfortuntely the death of a child takes the spirit out of both the child and the parents, that's why children are often a target, plus they are defenceless. It's total cruelty.
    We have reached a point of change, and when their is a change in order there are ripples. Governments should be very aware that legitimising terrorism by adopting illegal methods of force themselves, puts them and their people in a vunerable place. Once the moral highground has been surrendered, there is neither legitimacy in action, or trust, or justice.

    It's a very sad and desperate time

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    What can governments/people do ?

    Has terrorism and the shooting of children reached an all time low
    Erm, no. Several million Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and Communists being systematically slaughtered was probably that.

    Or maybe it was processing untold millions through slave labour camps in Siberia.

    Or maybe it was 'correcting' the population by exterminating one in seven of them in the Killing Fields.

    Or...well, I could go on unfortunately, but the point is (alluding to Dianas point), these things were all done by governments, not terrorists. Please don't assume terrorists are unique in their evil. The only difference between them and extremist governments is a question of resources.

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    Made the mistake of watching the history channel today ... totally screwed me up for the rest of the day and its still preying on my mind. It covered possibly the first terrorist event that made the world news ... and maybe was the 'inspiration' for all the atrocities by the IRA, ETA, Red Brigade and all the Arav terrorists. Munich Olympics ... eleven Jewish athletes massacred. Couldn’t watch the whole program. That was back in the 1970s .... nothing seems to have changed except for the scale and depravity of the crimes.

    As someone once said .. "one mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" .. in true ODA style .. didn’t Israel achieve statehood by murdering innocent UK servicemen who were there to protect them but were 'inconvenient'??

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M
    Erm, no. Several million Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and Communists being systematically slaughtered was probably that.

    Or maybe it was processing untold millions through slave labour camps in Siberia.

    Or maybe it was 'correcting' the population by exterminating one in seven of them in the Killing Fields.

    Or...well, I could go on unfortunately, but the point is (alluding to Dianas point), these things were all done by governments, not terrorists. Please don't assume terrorists are unique in their evil. The only difference between them and extremist governments is a question of resources.
    Dont disagree with this.

    Since I started the thread 7 usa service men and 3 Iraqis have been blown up it hardly gets a mention now.

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    you'll struggle to come up with an 'innocent' people - every race has killed other races at some point.

    spoken by Gus
    nothing seems to have changed except for the scale and depravity of the crimes
    for the better ? Its better reported now (as long as its deemed newsworthy at least !) but there does seem to be less attempted genocide then there used to be.

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    for the better ? Its better reported now (as long as its deemed newsworthy at least !) .....
    Hold on ... thats the problem If it wasnt reported the chances of it happening would be less. Slaughtering 300 kids isnt going to cripple the military might of Russia ... BUT, the world coverage could cripple Russia's resolve. Munich, 9/11 etc etc were all to get publicity, which the morally bankrupt media are always eager to do. One of the key thgings that screwed upo any chance of saving the Munich situation was the live coverage of the events by the media ... which allowed the terrorists to know exactly what all the security services were up to!

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    Re: Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

    I think we are stuck with terrorism. There is really no solution to it. After 9/11, messrs Bush & Blair announced their "Fight against global terrorism"...then proceded to try fighting a conventional war against it. You would think that men of such power and "Wisdom" would realise that conventional warfare does not work against terrorism. Terrorism has no "rules of war".....How do you counteract people walking into public buildings with explosives strapped to their waist, prepared to die a glorious death for their beliefs ?....... by spending billions of pounds pummeling Afghanistan, a place which was already crumbling, where the bombs blew up acres of nothing, to try to flush out Bin Laden....unsuccsessfully?
    Terrorism is a way for small countries, who could not hope to compete against the super powers, to get publicity for their cause, without actually going to war.
    Now that Northern Ireland has gone all quiet, and with the exception of the Basque seperatists, the majority of terrorism is connected to the Jihad announced by the Muslim Fundamentalists. An interesting article I read in the Dailly Mirror (whether you like the paper or not)...made the statement.....The majority of Muslims are not terrorists...but the majority of terrorists are Muslims........The latest attrocity from the Chechens, was apparently funded by Al Quaeda money...........It would seem that this jihad against the infadels is an attempt by the Muslim fundamentalists to ethnically cleans the world of anyone who does not worship Islam. The last person who tried to take over the world was a small Austrian chap with a silly moustache. He made the mistake of trying to do it through conventional warfare..........Maybe he should have tried terrorism...

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    Re: Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

    Terrorism - what I struggle to get my head round is not the atrocities, but what would warp a person's view of their world enough to actually carry them out? Can you imagine being so convinced that you, your family, everyone you knew, everyone in your past; were all the victims of some other power. That power being their current "leaders". What could their leaders have done that would incite such haltered?
    They then feel so helpless - they can't change what is happening around them; their family are still starving, their neighbours dying, their crops still failing, and no-one notices. These acts of terrorism are intended as a shout for attention - look at how we have been hard done by!

    Does anyone else see a parallel between this and the "Children" thread? Actions spurred by emotions with no thought of consequence. Big powerful parents of first world states slap the third world children and tell them to behave. If people think that there are better methods of discipline than violence, why are they not employed here? Would this not be a solution?

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    Re: Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

    For the first time in my life I wept like a baby when I saw the paper sunday morning. I cried for my children who have to live in this world and I cried for the people associated with loss.

    Most of all I cried for the state of the world and the thought that anyone is capable of harm to another.

    I cannot understand how in this day and age things are so bad. Above posts have mentioned terrorists and governments, yet we are all guilty of fuelling the situations.

    We all want to run our cars, they need petrol, so we create the need for oil. We all want more money, bigger house of in some cases just more food or water.

    We all believe in something, religion or no religion either way we believe in something others do not. I saw a documentary recently about supporters in Glasgow. Some supporters in a pub felt it was acceptable to mame a supporter from another team just for supporting them.

    No the problem is inherent in humans and it is that that I find so difficult to deal with. I wake up everyday lucky to be here and lucky to have my family. I try everyday not to impose my beliefs on others and to respect others views and wishes.

    Where when and how can violence be stopped. Perhaps a global share of wealth would help a few problems. I cannot help but feel all the money wasted by the wealthy nations could do so much to help the world situation.

    There was a mention above of the press involvement. There must be an arguement to ban any coverage of any terrorist act. This must take away some of the incentive.

    Ultimately and finally I come to realise there is NO solution. The reality is we are human, but still animals. that will not change and for as much as we are individuals and have different ideologies that we want to share/impose so it is that very individualistic trait that also makes for wonderful things.

    My answer, just not hurt anyone and hope others may do the same.

    A very sad Adam

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    Re: Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cerocmetro
    We all want to run our cars, they need petrol, so we create the need for oil. We all want more money, bigger house of in some cases just more food or water.
    Many people need transport and would be happy with anything that would do the job. If all the money the big car companies had went into eclectric cars you could have a forecourt car in a couple of years but big business wants to maximise profits and maintain the status quo as long as possible. A good example of this just now is the downloading of music, the big music companies are happier to sue people in order to slow progress and maximise their profits then they are to embrace the change.

    We all believe in something, religion or no religion either way we believe in something others do not.
    I agree, even if that something is "destiny", "luck", "doing the right thing" or whatever. I would say that every human is different and some will always be violent, anti-social etc.. but as a society the "Western" Nations are fairly well adjusted - and I think its society that is the problem, not the individuals.
    Society produces more well adjusted people where there is equality and freedom for individuals - something a lot of non-"western" countries dont do very well.

    Perhaps a global share of wealth would help a few problems. I cannot help but feel all the money wasted by the wealthy nations could do so much to help the world situation.
    People with power and money like it very much and are unlikely to be socialist, there needs to be a radical change in peoples outlook for this to ever happen. Not only that but money tends to pass between governments and the people at the top get first option .

    There was a mention above of the press involvement. There must be an arguement to ban any coverage of any terrorist act. This must take away some of the incentive.
    I disagree, the coverage of muslim terrorists has created more hatred of muslims than it has sympathy with the plight of people who become terrorists.
    You're are not going to implement much change to your benefit if everyone hates you. I doubt if your average terrorists cares about media coverage one way or the other, it wouldnt stop them doing it and it would be worse for society to "sweep it under the carpet" and not report it at all.

    The reality is we are human, but still animals. that will not change and for as much as we are individuals and have different ideologies that we want to share/impose so it is that very individualistic trait that also makes for wonderful things.
    As long as children are brought up in an open society with a good education which allows for an open exchange of views, there will be very little problem. I take as an example..Britain. In Scotland we have an anti-English sentiment because of our history, I could never bring myself to support England in football but do I want to harm English people. No. Historical past has become a mild rivalry when grown men play a game where you kick a ball around. If only all Arab peoples thought of Western countries the same way...not to mention the Chinese...etc...

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    Re: Global Terrorism is their a solution ?

    More extreme factions are prepared to go to any extremes to get their way. They are prepared to kill innocent people [...]
    Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq: 11,793-13,802

    didn’t Israel achieve statehood by murdering innocent UK servicemen
    You're probably thinking of the King David Hotel bombing and related incidents.

    It would seem that this jihad against the infidels is an attempt by the Muslim fundamentalists to ethnically cleanse the world of anyone who does not worship Islam.
    Last I checked, the aims of Al Qaeda were:
    * Muslims must rule themselves. Get foreign troops off "Islamic soil". Get rid of dictators (both foreign-installed and home-grown).
    * Israel is on "Islamic soil". Destroy Israel. Restore Jerusalem to Arab control.
    * Establish religious governments in Arab countries based on Islam and Islamic law (Sharia).
    * Jews and Christians (People of The Book) permitted to remain in Arab countries, if they accept Islamic law. Others must convert to Islam, or leave.

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    Re: Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cerocmetro
    For the first time in my life I wept like a baby when I saw the paper sunday morning. I cried for my children who have to live in this world and I cried for the people associated with loss.
    For the time being we're so horrified we've stopped buying papers - we'll start buying when the atrocities get off the front pages. We've seen enough of them and we've done our quota of crying

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    Re: Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    I disagree, the coverage of Muslim terrorists has created more hatred of Muslims than it has sympathy with the plight of people who become terrorists.
    You're are not going to implement much change to your benefit if everyone hates you. I doubt if your average terrorists cares about media coverage one way or the other, it wouldn’t stop them doing it and it would be worse for society to "sweep it under the carpet" and not report it at all.
    I think that this is well wide of the mark (but I'm not a terrorist, so it might be spot on):
    The reason that these acts are carried out against non-involved countries people is to either get them involved, or draw attention to their plight. If the terrorists committed these acts against their own people or their own government, then they are freedom fighters, gorillas, rebels,... whatever. But if they target a country that is not directly involved in the conflict; then they are terrorists. (a line I think that press have blurred into obscurity)

    By committing acts that are broadcast all across the world, they are succeeding in drawing attention to their cause; people wonder "what is so bad that drives people to this?" News reporters go in and find out the background to the story. The governments involved are lent on to resolve the issues within their own borders. If this press coverage was not there, then less 'lean' would be able to be applied. The terrorists would focus their efforts on targets closer to home - those they see as responsible for their situation.

    I think that an act of terrorism without the media coverage would probably be handled discreetly with some special forces troops - end of terrorists, end of demands and less people likelihood of others taking similar action.

    Adam's solution of throwing money at a problem - does it work?
    Last edited by Gadget; 7th-September-2004 at 12:58 PM.

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    Registered User John S's Avatar
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    Re: Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

    Some thoughts:

    Unfortunately, it's a historical fact that terrorism is sometimes (often?) successful, particularly in securing independence - think of EOKA in Cyprus, Mau Mau in Kenya, Irgun in Palestine, even Wallace/Bruce in Scotland if you go back far enough! How many of us would know/care about Chechnya if it weren't for terrorism? Closer to home, would we be trying to have a power-sharing government in Northern Ireland without the IRA terrorism?

    Unless we have experienced first-hand something of the background of the people we label terrorists, I don't think any of us has an answer to, or is capable of understanding, terrorism as practiced today by the dispossessed and the fanatical - we live in our comfortable worlds where the biggest things most of us have to worry about are unutterably trivial.

    I don't suppose anyone on this forum feels strongly enough about anything (religion, politics, nationalism etc) to actually go out and kill for it, still less to die for it. We live in a society where to have strong feelings about any of these things nowadays is to be labelled at best eccentric and probably weird, but throughout history (as has been said) every tribe, society and country has engaged in what today we would call terrorism in the name of one of these ideals. But most of us have moved on, in this country at least.

    And although they're getting the headlines now, it's not just individual Moslems who have committed acts of terrorism recently in the name of fundamentalist religion - Hindus (Gujarat), Jews (Hebron), Christians (Oklahoma), Sikhs (Punjab), the list goes on - and that doesn't even begin to list the horrors of state terrorism through the ages.

    So maybe, just maybe, the germ of an answer is in that - gradually, as wealth and comfort increases, we become less willing to sacrifice it for an ideal - in some respects that's sad, as idealism and self-sacrifice have a positive side too, which we applaud when we agree with the aims, but deplore when we don't.

    Probably the country with the most experience of dealing with terrorism is Israel, and they haven't learned how to solve it - everything they are now doing (and it's all understandable from their perspective) is simply dealing with the consequences, not addressing the root causes.

    Eventually the only viable future for a safe society is the spread of wealth to the dispossessed, self-determination to those who want it, and an acceptance by everyone (and every religious and political leader) that discussion and non-violent persuasion is preferable to force. I guess this would have to be taught from birth and in schools, and as it's contrary to human nature and the economic/religious forces against it are so huge, it won't happen in my lifetime, and probably never will.

    My anger about Beslan, Madrid, 9/11 etc etc is not just towards the deluded and warped people who carried out the acts, but more to the cowardly paymasters and masterminds who planned them, secure in the knowledge that their own lives were not at risk. (I'm sure that one of the reasons the IRA eventually stopped fighting was that the leaders became middle-aged and realised that life was actually worth living!)

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    Re: Global Terrorism is there a solution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by John S
    My anger about Beslan, Madrid, 9/11 etc etc is not just towards the deluded and warped people who carried out the acts, but more to the cowardly paymasters and masterminds who planned them, secure in the knowledge that their own lives were not at risk. (I'm sure that one of the reasons the IRA eventually stopped fighting was that the leaders became middle-aged and realised that life was actually worth living!)
    Someone told me that after the Harrods bombing the IRA had to massively scale back operations. Why? Not due to public outrage ... but they were careless enough to kill an American. The Yanks dont seem to mind funding the IRA if it meant just killing Brits ... but as soon as a US citizen died, they stopped funding then IRA ... for a while. Amid all this tragedy, it would appear that in the past the US has been as guilty as many others in funding freedom fighters/terrorists.

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