More men! How do we find and keep them dancing??

[Rhythm King]

I think I've said before, I got into Ceroc as a result of an organisation which was having a summer ball. They booked 6 weeks of lessons, prior to the event and all the guests were asked along. About 30% kept it up afterwards and I did, until posted away from London. Sometime later, whilst still in the Forces I got back into Ceroc. I took a certain amount of mickey-taking from my colleagues, right up until the point where I took a table of Ceroc-ing guests to the Mess Summer Ball. Lo and behold, for the next week's visit to my local venue, my car was full of willing, but nervous volunteers. Once they saw the environment and also realised that they could learn Ceroc moves, rather like practising drill movements, they were hooked. I know at least 3 of them are still dancing 6 years on. Similarly, whilst on a 6 month course, we took it in turns to organise a social event each week. I took a minibus load of males and females to Bedford, for a night's dancing. We ended up going twice more by popular request, the only event to be repeated on the course.
I have been busking for various venues over the years. We have always been at shopping centres, or in high streets. These places are usually full of women shopping, or men going shopping with women (oh, and the Andy McGregors of this world, of course [ ]). Perhaps we should try to be more pro-active about where we busk. There are numerous companies and other organisations which hold social events during the year, perhaps they should be approached either to allow busking, perhaps in the form of a "gentle" cabaret (ie not too frightening!), or to try the pre-ball classes route.
I have tried to get people from my current office to come with me, but so far, only a couple of the women have been interested. I intend to bring in a couple of Ceroc and Beach Boogie videos to try and encourage the chaps, in due course. (I have one ally, but he does salsa, and doesn't admit to it in the office!)

[Little Em]

iv been in touch wiht the MOD and havea contact to try an get ceroc int o do promos an cabarets @ balls/events and stuff .......

do you think that would be worthwhile??

em x

[Rhythm King]

iv been in touch wiht the MOD and havea contact to try an get ceroc int o do promos an cabarets @ balls/events and stuff .......

do you think that would be worthwhile??

em x

Got to be worth a try, but if you do get into Sservice Messes, make sure you get to the Sergeants' Messes, as well as the Officers' Messes. Even the Junior Ranks have summer balls now, but not as formal as the above.
I like the idea of sports clubs too.
Hopefully see you at Hipsters tonight for a dance.

R-K x

[Gadget]

I would feel obliged to explain that it was not costing me anything because I would be getting in free. To avoid all these minor relationship problems I would far rather tell my friend that they would get free admission if I introduced them, and I would prefer that to be venue policy.

I have taken a few people for their first night, and paid for them: I think that the above is a great idea.
I don't mind having to pay myself in: I know what to expect and I know that I will enjoy myself. The newbie however is just about to hand over cash for something they may not enjoy {} - sort of like a "free trial" or "test drive" concept.

[Little Em]

yes of course!!!! though dont know your face so please if you see me come an grab me!!! ill b wearing black trousers an red boots so come an introduce yourself!!

tonight is going to be wicked i can feel it in mydancign shoes already!!!

hehe x

Got to be worth a try, but if you do get into Sservice Messes, make sure you get to the Sergeants' Messes, as well as the Officers' Messes. Even the Junior Ranks have summer balls now, but not as formal as the above.
I like the idea of sports clubs too.
Hopefully see you at Hipsters tonight for a dance.

R-K x

[tsh]

I have been busking for various venues over the years. We have always been at shopping centres, or in high streets. These places are usually full of women shopping, or men going shopping with women (oh, and the Andy McGregors of this world, of course [ ]). Perhaps we should try to be more pro-active about where we busk. There are numerous companies and other organisations which hold social events during the year, perhaps they should be approached either to allow busking, perhaps in the form of a "gentle" cabaret (ie not too frightening!), or to try the pre-ball classes route.

I think that the best way of getting more people interested is by demonstration. Unless people can watch, they won't understand what it is that they're getting into. Even at this stage, I think it's worth trying to show that lots of complicated moves arn't the secret to being able to dance well - which I think is also something to emphasise in the leaning phase as well.

In terms of keeping us coming back - all it needs is for us to be sure that we'll get some good dances out of each evening. If that doesn't do it, we'd rather be somewhere else anyway!

The one thing that puts me off most is being at a venue where there are no beginners I can dance with (the easy option) and everyone else is doing really fancy stuff, such that I don't feel able to bore anyone by asking them to dance with me - and I know it'll be a bad dance because I'll be trying too hard to fit in some intermediate moves.

No good ideas on how the ladies can make this easier - most of the time they seem to be as encouraging as they can, and I'm not sure how it would go down if they started saying 'I really liked the sequence out of the beginners class, why not just do that' - even though it would probably work quite well!

Sean
p.s. Doing Intermediate1 on Sunday, so I'll see if that's a useful part of the retention process...

[Rhythm King]

The one thing that puts me off most is being at a venue where there are no beginners I can dance with (the easy option) and everyone else is doing really fancy stuff, such that I don't feel able to bore anyone by asking them to dance with me - and I know it'll be a bad dance because I'll be trying too hard to fit in some intermediate moves.

Don't feel you should only dance with beginner ladies. If you lead something correctly and they make a mistake you're the one that gets confused! The good Intermediate ladies don't bite and will follow what you lead, which does wonders for your self confidence. When I was starting out, on the whole the Intermediate ladies were very good at encouraging the new chaps. One or two could be a bit fierce in their criticism, but on reflection they probably meant well in the long run. If one took notice of what they were saying, instead of just getting embarrassed/confused, it did help. (Although there were two in particular that the beginner men used to call "The Dance Nazis" - Did I really just fess up to that in public? )
Stick with it, oh and do workshops too.

R-K

[Lynn]

Interesting thread. The salsa scene is probably similiar here to what has been described - almost 2 women for every man - but jive is more usually more balanced - we are organising a Blues workshop here (this Saturday) and had to work harder at filling the women's spaces. (Might be because it was myself and another women organising it and we know more men than women dancers!?) But of friends I have invited to either salsa or jive classes, its been more often the men who have stuck at it.

I agree that plenty of encouragement in the early stages is essential, possibly more so for men than women? One of the reasons I don't go to salsa much is the balance (that and the 'I'm too good to dance with you' attitude of some, and very smoky venues).

[Maxx]

Probably just re-hashing what's been said already but...

I don't really have an answer on how to get more men through the doors. But one big reason I reckon they don't come (or stay) is because they're scared. I don't want to be brutal, but most of this "macho" stuff is... well...crap!
It's easy to be macho when you're with a group, but being out there on the dance floor doing something you're not sure of, on your own, (well sort of) is a different ball game.

As most men will know it can be scary at first, (it was for me), but you (they) have to do it; hang in there, break through it - the rewards are well worth it, as all you other Forumites know.
(BTW funny that Martial Arts were mentioned earlier, is there a connection here?)

And No I'm not gay. For a very long time I was involved in a "Macho" type world workwise, still am a bit and most of the guys I know would be too frightened to try dancing. (Under the surface of course, outwardly there's all kinds of excuses).

I guess they just needs lots of encouragement in various forms.

But I think most of you women know this already.

I can't imagine ever giving up dancing now, but if they put in a big TV with sports on it then I shall have to think hard about continuing in a venue like that. No objection to a licenced bar though. Cheers.

"To understand others is to have knowledge. To understand oneself is to be illuminated. To conquer others needs strength. To conquer oneself is harder still." The Tao Te Ching

[Little Em]

Got to be worth a try, but if you do get into Sservice Messes, make sure you get to the Sergeants' Messes, as well as the Officers' Messes. Even the Junior Ranks have summer balls now, but not as formal as the above.
I like the idea of sports clubs too.
Hopefully see you at Hipsters tonight for a dance.

R-K x

morning RK an everyone else on here!!!!

RK...any ideas on how i can get in touch with the services do you know anybody that i could speak too???? im VERY interested in looking into getting something like this off the ground for ceroc i think it would be brill for recruiting the guys and for promotions!!!!!

any hints ???

EM xx

[White Knuckle Ride]

just to go back to the original thread ....................

i think we need to find out where our guys hung out before they started dancing ...i.e they used to play rugby or go sailing????

guys what did you do.........then once i know i might go an do a few demos at these kinds of places!!!!

am i making sense??!?!!

Sailing! As Master and Commander you will be most welcome to demo' on deck. C'mon over Andy, this should be good!

[Little Em]

Sailing! As Master and Commander you will be most welcome to demo' on deck. C'mon over Andy, this should be good!

OKEY DOKEY!!! not too sure....r u being serious?

if you are then we need to make a date? to organise a promo .......oooh i have ideas forming already!!!

[Yliander]

I do not like the idea of free admission for someone bring along a new member. It would deter me, I would not have a profit motive for promoting MJ, and I would not want to be perceived as having one. I believe you should try and bring your friends along as a favour to them.

When we have these sorts of promotions I generally invite a friend a long - but play the generous host and pay for them - then it doesn't cost them anything but time....

[Magic Hans]

Challenges that us men face, the first time? Summarised from previous posts :-

Learning to lead from day one.

Going alone, rather than in 2s, 3s or 4s, lacking the emotional support that women might have.

Somewhat fragile egos that can be damaged easily

Having to get it right first time, every time.

Being viewed by (I would say somewhat ignorant) non-dancers as pansies or worse!

No previous dance experience (tap, ballet, jaz)

-----------------
[Generalisation Warning!] [ .... oh, and heavy psycho-babble warning too !!!!!]

Culturally, our society tends to value mental/intellectual achievement over physical (except for the 1% of us who are top sportsmen), compared, say, with Cubans, South Americans, who, in common with all ancient cultures, have always danced (and sung) from infancy to adult hood.

We (British males in particular, for some reason) need to learn to be in our bodies more, and our heads less.

-

Blokes tend to be loners, and although might not go dancing with a specific end in mind, are helped by having small milestones .... and encouragement, both from lasses and blokes.

I'll tend to ask new blokes how it's going, that it /is/ tough and difficult, and that /I've/ been there as well. As an initial goal, I suggest they make their favourite four moves into a routine that is etched into their muscle memory as a chisel on stone.

-

External negative peer pressure and the perfect need, stem from our insecurities. I guess only encouragement can go any way to addressing this.

-

I believe that blokes (as girls) can generally either be of a leading or a following demeanor. [Control freaks, are one (perhap more extreme) example]

Natural 'lead' blokes will take more to (and out of) their first few sessions. Natural 'follows' will find them far more daunting, and will find more excuses for giving up. In my opinion, only some manner of lead/follow training/workshops (where everyone swaps lead/follow role) can make this easier.


... hope this a) made sense, and b) wasn't so heavy as to leave a hole in the floor!!

[drathzel]

Ian....... just to say that i didn't have the emotional support.... i went on my lonesome

[TheTramp]

Ian....... just to say that i didn't have the emotional support.... i went on my lonesome

When did you become a man then Danielle??

Trampy

[drathzel]

When did you become a man then Danielle??

Trampy

Ha Ha what you dont know wont hurt me... What i meant was that he siad women have emotional support and go in groups... i didn't

[Ste]

Has anyone mentioned food could attract blokes?

Free food ( lots of it..... ...steak would be nice) and free beer....all you like !

[Dazzle]

It is unfortunate that with men, the very things we can offer to attract them, often bring along an undesirable element that can then make it all so difficult.

Women who bring along new guys get in free. Guys who come in before the start of the beginners class get in free. Advertise with singles clubs to attract men to be able to dance with lots of women, "Every woman loves a man who can dance!"

Then we end up with stalkers and those who expect women to be dropping at their feet.

The very nature of male development goes against dancing as being efeminite (Spelling not my strong point?) and so on, yet many of their male icons in the music industry dance as part of their acts. The male mind is a maze of dead ends and can take a lifetime to unravel. If women with partners cannot get them to come and dance with them, how can we attract single guys? More nationwide awareness is needed. After Top Gun the movie, the US Navy were flooded with Naval Fighter Pilot applications. We need a film, Top Drop! to have a similar effect maybe?

[drathzel]

Has anyone mentioned food could attract blokes?

Free food ( lots of it..... ...steak would be nice) and free beer....all you like !

women? thats what made my friend come....to ceroc!!!