More men! How do we find and keep them dancing??

[under par]

It appears to me reading through various threads that most venues struggle to keep the numbers of men and women balanced.

The most common compaint is of a lack of men, anecdotes of 10 to 20 women over at a lesson are common.

What is it that attracts more women to dancing?

What alternatively is it about MJ that fails to attract enough men and retain them as regular dancers?

I have my own thoughts which I will save for later.

I would like to see forum opinions on this topic.

If we could resolve this issue, oh how many satisfied customers MJ clasess would have.

Wouldn't that be good for love, peace and understanding.

[stewart38]

Based on a limited area of dance experience in the southeast / London I would suggest its a bit 'swings and roundabouts'

Seems now more women at most venues I attend but a year ago particularly this time of year seemed to be more men at many venues ?

Its odd sometimes at venues you can have even and next time 20 more women and the football theory doesnt work.

The biggest in balance seems to occur when its free (ie far more ladies)

10yrs ago I think the imbalance was a lot worst i.e. move 35 ladies around etc

To answer the question maybe the macho image re dancing hasn’t fully gone yet ?

[Emma]

I would guess that-

1. Fewer men join in the first place, as culturally dancing is regarded as 'not macho'. I know several women whose partners won't dance becuase 'it's for poofs', and I imagine an equal amount of single men don't start for the same (or similar) reasons.

2. MJ is harder for men (at least initially), and their learning curve is much steeper. They have to lead from their first lesson (you're into freestyle!), and it's much harder and arguably more embarrassing for a beginner lead than a beginner follow. I would think there is a higher proportion of early male drop-outs.

[Andy McGregor]

To answer the question maybe the macho image re dancing hasn’t fully gone yet ?

I think this is right. My answer to my Rugby playing friends is to ask them a question "Compare rolling round in a muddy field with a bunch of guys to spending a night with 30 lycra clad women in your arms - which is the most 'manly'?"

But, back on thread. I think there are more women in dancing because women grow up dancing. How many women never went to a dance class when they were a girl? Most of them have done something in their youth, ballet, tap, modern, even ballroom. Compare this to guys, if we did anything it was judo, karate, football, fishing, Scouting, etc.

So, no I don't think most guys worry about being seen as a cissy if they dance - especially jive, which is also done by Hells Angels, who I wouldn't accuse of being cissy I don't think most guys give dancing any thought at all, it just doesn't cross their mind.

Has anyone seen a good way to get guys to come dancing?

[Emma]

But, back on thread. I think there are more women in dancing because women grow up dancing. How many women never been to a dance class when they were a girl? Most of them have done something in their youth, ballet, tap, modern, even ballroom. Compare this to guys, if we did anything it was judo, karate, football, fishing, Scouting, etc.

What Andy said

So, no I don't think most guys worry about being seen as a cissy if they dance - especially jive, which is also done by Hells Angels, who I wouldn't accuse of being cissy I don't think most guys give dancing any though at all, it just doesn't cross their mind.

I can feel a poll coming on

[MartinHarper]

Once at Ceroc Cheltenham, I heard the teacher apologising that the previous week he'd taught a move where the guy had lots of stuff to do, but the woman mostly just hung around doing nothing, and promised he'd stay away from such moves in the future (or that was the gist of it, anyway). Given that the venue typically has more women than men, this struck me as somewhat counter-productive.

If a venue is at capacity already, I guess the only way to make more money from it is to increase the number of wallflowers, since they all pay the standard rate. I can't believe anyone would aim to do that, though.

[Tiggerbabe]

I know several women whose partners won't dance because 'it's for poofs'

I know one gay dancer whose partner won't dance for the same reason

[HeatherX]

I have noticed that when new women come along to a dance night they come in pairs, threes or even fours. When new men come along, they are almost always alone.

I am not sure why this is.

Something to do with women feeling a bit uncomfortable without a pal (or two or three) at a new venue....and men don't?

[Lory]

I have noticed that when new women come along to a dance night they come in pairs, threes or even fours. When new men come along, they are almost always alone.

I think that's one of the biggest problems, I just can't imagine many men saying to their work colleges, sporting mates or drinking pals, Hey, fancy coming dancing tonight? Or even, I've started this knew hobby, dancing! .........e.t.c

Women probably want their friends there as moral support, cos women say nice things to each other, when they need a boost of confidence, they will pick on a good point and share it with their friend or say things like, NO you look fine! but some of the men I know, would take great glee in telling their mates, Hey, your c**p, or Two left feet if ever I saw some!

Now I KNOW there's nothing wrong with men talking about it but I'm just pointing out that they probably don't (and yeah yeah I know there are always exceptions to the rule)

As for keeping them there, I think they need lot's of humour, maybe a licenced bar and lot's of confidence boosting (probably more so than the women) I know from experience that some men gave up, cos they looked round the room and saw men who could 'do it' looking cool and if they couldn't look like that instantly, its was a NO NO!

[Gus]

I have noticed that when new women come along to a dance night they come in pairs, threes or even fours. When new men come along, they are almost always alone.

Good point. We've managed to retain a few 'single' blokes but our real result (so far) is a group pf 4 lads, all early 20's. They still come and seem to be enjoying it. May have something to do with the fact that on the first night they ended up sitting next to a bunch of new lasses, all early 20's and attractive ...... think this may be the answer!!

[under par]

As for keeping them there, I think they need lot's of humour, maybe a licenced bar and lot's of confidence boosting (probably more so than the women) I know from experience that some men gave up, cos they looked round the room and saw men who could 'do it' looking cool and if they couldn't look like that instantly, its was a NO NO!

I think that it is in the interests of all teachers/venues/dancers etc to encourage all newbies to come again.

I think it is even more important that teachers/venues make an extra effort with new male dancers.
The reasons mentioned in the threads above ie; 1.more difficult to learn to lead initially than follow 2. men often arrive alone and tend not to have moral support with them, being the main reasons.

Nowhere I have ever been to for a beginners lessons have the new male leads ever been taken to one side and given extra peptalk or extra help with the difficulties of lead and follow specific the role of male lead.
Nor any other incentive ie reduced entry costs for short period whilst they consolidate.

Many places do consolidation classes for both male and female dancers but the poor male newbie dancer with his fragile ego and low self esteem I think is the one person teachers should be doing a lot more for.

It would certainly have a pay huge dividends for all venues(financially) and lady dancers(more dances for all) if the new male dancers could be encouraged to stay with MJ.

Selfishly it would not be in my interests to have too many more males dancing but for the better good of all the ladies who have to sit out half the night lets see if more can be done please.

[Trish]

Nowhere I have ever been to for a beginners lessons have the new male leads ever been taken to one side and given extra peptalk or extra help with the difficulties of lead and follow specific the role of male lead.
Nor any other incentive ie reduced entry costs for short period whilst they consolidate.

The taxi dancers and Thursday night venue manager at Peterborough always take the new guys away on their own and talk to them about leading/what moves are easier to pick up on/what to do if you "freeze" in freestyle, which I think a lot of them appreciate. Personally I tend to spend a lot more time with the men than the women when I taxi as I think they need it. I get the impression that most of the guys are ok when they're in the first six weeks or so, but if they're finding it difficult after this, they feel a failure. I tend to tell them when I'm taxiing that it takes as long as it takes (often a lot longer than six weeks) and they shouldn't be discouraged. I can understand why they are though, especially if other guys starting at the same time pick it up quicker than they do.

I agree with UP about reduced costs for a longer period for men. Both the guys and the women at our venue get something like 4 £2 off vouchers for their first few weeks, but that's not long enough to encourage the men, and we're often overrun with women as it is!

[Gordon J Pownall]

There was also the thread - how do we keep beginners in teh archives somehwere - that might offer a little insight.

More men - sorry we're fickle - lovely ladies and a bar and more on offer than a night down the pub, tinkering with cars, football or other bastions of male life....

....and before you start.......


I KNow...

not all men,

women mess with cars too,

etc,

etc,

[david gunn]

Hi to all!
first ever post.
To the experienced lady dancers I would say dance, talk to and encourage new men.
Lisa, lorna, Yvonne, Isabel, Sheena and many other excellent ladies in Aberdeen do (with a smile) and it helped me tremendously.
I am relatively new to Ceroc, and even though I started with a partner, initially we both tended to watch more than dance because I was still unable to lead for the first few crucial weeks. This is where encouragement from experienced dancers comes in.
Again we both found it quite a jump moving up to intermediate and I suspect some people might give up or feel discouraged (as we did) at this point.

Finally, getting new men in the door seems to be a major problem and one good suggestion I heard was a 'free' night for ladies who bring a new man; and I hope that won't be misconstrued by some!

[HeatherX]

David, all you say is quite right. I always make a point of dancing with new men - I enjoy it! I try to be encouraging, and not do the moves for them (though that is hard with someone on their first night - I do find I am lifting their arms and returning myself under them!


The free night is an excellent idea.

[Gordon J Pownall]

Hi to all!
first ever post.

David - Hi...

A huge welcome from me Gordy - welcome to the Forum and I hope you have many happy hours neglecting work at the taxpayers / bosses expense whilst watching the hours pass as you sit on the Furum.

We are a very friendly bunch so do feel free to tell us a bit about yourself on the thread marked - BY WAY OF AN INTRODUCTION

Just beware of Andy McGregor , Gordon J Pownall , UnderPar and The Dreadful Scathe - they are all nutters you know - Andy and Gordon are gimps as well - slaves to their Masters.......

But I digress - have fun and enjoy ...

Gordon...

[Lory]

Hi to all!
first ever post.

Hi David, first of many we hope!

[under par]

David - Hi...

A huge welcome from me Gordy - welcome to the Forum and I hope you have many happy hours neglecting work at the taxpayers / bosses expense whilst watching the hours pass as you sit on the Furum.

We are a very friendly bunch so do feel free to tell us a bit about yourself on the thread marked - BY WAY OF AN INTRODUCTION

Just beware of Andy McGregor , Gordon J Pownall , UnderPar and The Dreadful Scathe - they are all nutters you know - Andy and Gordon are gimps as well - slaves to their Masters.......

But I digress - have fun and enjoy ...

Gordon...

Hears sound of scream......footsteps running into distance ......a door slam shut......faint sound of sobbing discerned from behind closed door...

[Andy McGregor]

Hears sound of scream......footsteps running into distance ......a door slam shut......faint sound of sobbing discerned from behind closed door...

See, my fellow Gimp, Gordy, did say that under par is a nutter. It's the altitude - UP is 17' 9 3/4" and still growing

..but please be gentle with him as he loses a year of his life expectancy for every two inches over the proper height for a male dancer - which, as everyone knows is in the range 5' 7" to 5' 8"

[Gordon J Pownall]

See, my fellow Gimp, Gordy, did say that under par is a nutter. It's the altitude - UP is 17' 9 3/4" and still growing

..but please be gentle with him as he loses a year of his life expectancy for every two inches over the proper height for a male dancer - which, as everyone knows is in the range 5' 7" to 5' 8"

Indeed Andy - we mustn't mock the afflicted....