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Thread: Rotate or Scatter!

  1. #21
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    Re: Rotate or Scatter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    I have been teaching the scatter method at Hastings beginners class for two years, but we teach in a circle with ladies rotating clockwise and my demonstrator moves around the circle so i get to dance with each beginner during the class, jjust have to make sure there is a maximum of 1 lady between each couple.
    as this takes up a lot of space it is not suitable for the intyermediate,
    I have tried the scatter method in line up's at camber....DISASTER

    At major events like Camber I find that moving the ladies up a single row works, they then re-join at the front and divide the number of ladies between the rows (4 rows, 20 ladies + move up 5 in each row)
    Overall I think the standard totation method is best - have seen one Leroc teacher with 20 ladies over in the line up and only moving 5 at a time - this was a disaster.
    peter
    Rotation appears to be best for busy classes with lots of numbers and little space.

    Small classes can and do work quite well with the scatter or circle method which I have seen at numerous smaller venues.

  2. #22
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: A little moan

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY
    There are the same number of men and women whichever method of rotation is used, so on average people should get the same number of dances.

    With the "scatter and move one on" method, if the "scattering" isn't scattered enough, you can get the situation where there are lots of spare folk in a given row, and you're faced with the daunting prospect of working slowly along a long row, one dance on, one dance off. But if you're in a "good" row you can dance nearly every dance. It's quicker to move on and not held up if someone tries to spend extra time helping their partner with a move when everyone else is moving. However if you're near the back of the room, where you can't see well, both partners have been stuck thereabouts all night and neither can help each other with knowledge gleaned from being near the front (or dancing with someone there).

    So scattering potentially gives you more teaching & practicing time (because less time is spent moving on), but is much more variable if there's an uneven scatter.

    With the "rotate lots at once" method you know where you are - you know you'll have a few dances as you work along the row, then be off for one rotation, then you're back on again. But it can take longer to move everyone round.

    Personally when men are rotating, I like rotating lots of people at once because you know you'll get at least a few dances before you're off again. I also think it's more fun as you don't know who you're going to get to dance with next!
    The problem with the scatter method is it only works if no new people turn up. The more 'extra people' you have full rotation works best. Hey its just a opinion, there must be some form of maths formula for this ?

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    Re: A little moan

    The scatter method only works if no new people turn up
    That's not been my experience in smaller groups - if there are excess men, then late arriving women snap them up, and late arriving men just insert themselves in a gap between two pairs. Might be different in large groups, though.

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    Re: A little moan

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    there are excess men,

    WHERE? I'm on my way.............

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    Re: A little moan

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Chain
    Instead of having us lined up as wallflowers and moving 15+ each time, we were scattered throughout the room. The ladies moved round 1 man each time. So, whenever you reached a point where a spare lady had started the lesson, you had to stand out and wait for the next rotation in the middle of the room .
    I did mention my opinion to the organiser at a subsequent freestyle but the organiser firmly believes that it is a fairer and superior method of rotation.

    I never went back.

    Daisy Chain
    (A Happy Little Wallflower )
    This style of rotation was done once at dundee recently and it confused everyone and made the ladies feel even more awkward than they do sitting waiting at the side of the dance floor.

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    Registered User Rhythm King's Avatar
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    Re: A little moan

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    That's not been my experience in smaller groups - if there are excess men, then late arriving women snap them up, and late arriving men just insert themselves in a gap between two pairs. Might be different in large groups, though.
    Yes, but that's only if more of the opposite gender turn up. If more of the same arrive, the scatter system becomes somewhat unfair, as people invariably join in wherever they are going to get on next, rather than at the back of the wall flower queue. Amir Giles said something very interesting at Beach Boogie last week. He is of the opinion that the people who learn moves faster are the ones who practise the move on their own, whilst waiting in the queue, as it gets into their muscle memory faster. It makes for a quiter class too, as the teacher isn't competing to be heard over people talking.

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    Re: A little moan

    If there are an excess of men, then late arriving men just insert themselves in a gap between two pairs. They wait out the current bit of dancing, and get a dance next time the class rotates. With a wallflower queue, late arriving men join the end of the queue, wait out the current bit of dancing, and get a dance the next time the class rotates. It's unclear to me how either of these systems can be considered more fair than the other.

    Practicing is good, of course - but one can practice the moves in both systems - provided there's space! I've happilly danced with air, or practiced spins, (or drunk some water ) when I'm in a gap in the scatter method, and some women do the same. It seems to me the critical factor for practicing on your own is sufficient space to do so - I'm afraid I just don't see how the rotation system makes a difference.

  8. #28
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    Horses for courses

    I think the different methods work best in different situations. I get the impression that the majority of teachers prefer to work with a circle, though space rarely permits this. If you're in a circle, then the scatter method is the only one to use.

    For the average weekly class, with people arriving late, and up to 10 spare men/women then the single queue is what people are used to, and it generally works well. (Unless there are more than 3 men moving on, because they are hopeless at counting, the number of times I've been bumped out of a class due to bad counting But I've just had a thought, maybe it's the women, seeing some guy coming round that they definitely don't want to dance with, even for a few seconds, do they slip out of the lesson and cause chaos? Has anyone ever done this?)

    For the mega classes (Camber) or other places where there may be huge numbers of extra women (men if it's a blues class ) then break them up and put them at the end of the rows. This one does have the disadvantage that you only get to dance with 1/2, a 1/4, or whatever, of the class.

    Greg

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    Re: Horses for courses

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman
    For the mega classes (Camber) or other places where there may be huge numbers of extra women (men if it's a blues class ) then break them up and put them at the end of the rows. This one does have the disadvantage that you only get to dance with 1/2, a 1/4, or whatever, of the class.

    Greg
    But the counter argument is that it is an advantage for the other half of the class who do not have to dance with me!

  10. #30
    Registered User Daisy Chain's Avatar
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    Re: Horses for courses

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman
    : But I've just had a thought, maybe it's the women, seeing some guy coming round that they definitely don't want to dance with, even for a few seconds, do they slip out of the lesson and cause chaos? Has anyone ever done this?)




    Ahem, told you I was fussy...
    Last edited by Daisy Chain; 3rd-August-2004 at 12:09 PM.

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    Re: Horses for courses

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman
    For the mega classes (Camber) or other places where there may be huge numbers of extra women (men if it's a blues class ) then break them up and put them at the end of the rows. This one does have the disadvantage that you only get to dance with 1/2, a 1/4, or whatever, of the class.

    Greg
    Hey, I've got this one sussed! Shhhh! Just join another row, when you've had enough of the one your in!
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    Re: A little moan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhythm King
    Amir Giles said something very interesting at Beach Boogie last week. He is of the opinion that the people who learn moves faster are the ones who practise the move on their own, whilst waiting in the queue, as it gets into their muscle memory faster.
    A good reason for rotating, rather than fixed partners ... oops .. wrong thread!

  13. #33
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    Re: Rotate or Scatter!

    Well I've taught using both methods. The scatter method definitely saves time when you have a large number of people to move on, but as previously mentioned, only works if you have the space to have everyone on the dancefloor at the same time. When teaching in a circle, it's the only choice IMHO, but it has worked just as well for me in lines. When everyone knows whats going on (we regularly used to teach our Improvers class with 50-60 people + up to 15 spare in a circle using the scatter method) even the late comers neatly slot themselves into a suitable gap between partners.

  14. #34
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    Re: Rotate or Scatter!

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    When everyone knows whats going on
    This seems key to the scatter method..I guess it's easier for people to turn up late as 'newbies' and realise that there's a queue to be joined, scatter method would need constand explanation for those new to it (perhaps)....

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    Re: Rotate or Scatter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Emma
    I guess it's easier for people to turn up late as 'newbies' and realise that there's a queue to be joined
    We had some late-arriving newcomer guys at Ceroc Cheltenham this Monday, and they didn't realise they had to wave their hands to get a girl from the queue to come over (or should they have walked over and grabbed a girl from the queue? I'm still not clear on the finer points of wallflower etiquette... ). In two cases, they didn't realise that there were spare women and they could join in. The same sort of thing has happened in the scatter classes I've gone too. What's obvious to folks who've been going a few weeks might not be to newcomers...

    Interestingly, when I went from a scatter class to a queue class, I didn't have much of a problem, and I know someone who did the opposite, and she seemed to cope fine. Perhaps the confusion arises when an entire class is asked to switch? IE, if you have a class full of people who are only used to a queue, then switching to scatter is going to confuse them a bit - and vica versa. That seems to be what people are saying here.

    If so, the message to teachers has to be - whatever you're doing, keep doing it! I'm sure they'll be relieved.
    Last edited by MartinHarper; 4th-August-2004 at 12:10 AM.

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    Re: Rotate or Scatter!

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    and they didn't realise they had to wave their hands to get a girl from the queue to come over (or should they have walked over and grabbed a girl from the queue? I'm still not clear on the finer points of wallflower etiquette... ).
    A lot of guys go for this hand-up-fetch-me-a-woman. I think it's rude and unchivalrous. If you want a woman to dance with, please go and ask one

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    Re: Rotate or Scatter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    A lot of guys go for this hand-up-fetch-me-a-woman. I think it's rude and unchivalrous. If you want a woman to dance with, please go and ask one
    Andy there isn't always that much time available.

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    Re: Rotate or Scatter!

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    (or should they have walked over and grabbed a girl from the queue? I'm still not clear on the finer points of wallflower etiquette... ).
    This reminds me of a time when about Ten of us were standing in the 'wallflower queue' and this guy hurried in, obviously quite stressed at having missed the very start of the lesson, he was taking his coat off and changing his shoes, without taking his eye off the teacher. then he realised , hells bells, he had to get a woman, he spotted the queue, ran up but then he was completely flummoxed, you could see his brain ticking over as he eyed the queue, 'what do I do, what do I do? do I take one from the front or the back (panic), not knowing what to do, he quickly walked up and down the queue and gave us all a fleeting 'once over' and ended up picking a lady from the middle. At which point, we all turned to each other, raising our eyebrows and gave each other a 'once over' then burst out laughing! Poor bloke! you had to be there!
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    Re: Horses for courses

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman
    l. (Unless there are more than 3 men moving on, because they are hopeless at counting, the number of times I've been bumped out of a class due to bad counting
    Greg

    I think women are fast worse at counting, they tend to talk more

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    Re: Horses for courses

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    I think women are fast worse at counting, they tend to talk more
    I disagree (and we're better at typing, too )
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