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Thread: Shoulder Drop

  1. #21
    Registered User Nick M's Avatar
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    Re: Shoulderdrop

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    The one I was shown was similar to Chris's. Starting R-R, though
    I always do this from a R/R as well

  2. #22
    Registered User Bigger Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Strategies to keep beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    Definitely not a beginner move.
    As it has been explained to me ...
    "Beginners moves" are not necessarily called that because they are easy.
    There are some more complicated moves included because they form the basis of what is to come.

  3. #23
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    Re: Strategies to keep beginners

    My problem with the move is that it starts identically to one of my favourite Jazz Jive moves called "turn the girl, turn the guy, charleston". I knew another guy there who'd done Jazz Jive, and we both said it was difficult to resist the urge to go into the charleston rhythm.

    I'll have to try it L-R next time, and/or with a catapult style exit and/or missing out the fourth and fifth steps. Another nice variation I've seen is going off on a stroll after step three.

  4. #24
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Re: Shoulderdrop

    [QUOTE=littleemc-central]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    Well...

    4. NASTY
    5. NASTY





    We were told to say
    4. Away
    5. Together

    if you really wanted to know that!!!!!!!
    Errrr.........no........

    Gordy
    ~ It's a Dance Thing ~


    'Τα δόντια μου είναι μου δικοί - οι γόμμες δεν είναι'

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  5. #25
    The Dashing Moderator
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    Shoulder Drop Variations

    I've seen a few variations on this move.

    I think I've seen it taught with parts 4 & 5 missed out.

    I've also seen 4 & 5 done with both partners stepping the same way at the same time, and also the opposite way, with the leader stepping right while the follower steps left.

    I've also seen a "catapult" ending, and also a different ending where the leader steps to the side (right) while the follower steps to the side left, follower's RH sliding down the leader's LH, followed by a return to end facing.

    My question is though - if it's a beginner's move and everything is supposed to be standard from Ceroc venue to Ceroc venue, shouldn't it be the same for all Ceroc venues?

    If I had been dancing for only a very few weeks, I'd be confused if different teachers or different nearby venues teach different variations from week to week. I stand a chance of remembering things if they're the same every time, but different variations confuse me if they are labelled as being the same thing.

    I can see Rachel's point about Marc needing to vary the move because the routine was too long, but I can't remember the last time a teacher changed any of the other beginners' moves in that way. I'm sure Marc was correct to do what he did, but it feels like this might be a fault in the move itself (is the move too long?) or in the routine that was "set" for that night.

    When other Beginners' moves (eg. a First Move or an Octopus) get taught, it seems to be an identical move in all Ceroc venues - whoever's teaching. There are variations between eg. ArmJive pushspin and an ArmJive Swizzle, but these are listed as separate Beginners moves in their own right.

    Why does the Shoulder Drop get to vary so much?
    Love dance, will travel

  6. #26
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Re: Shoulder Drop Variations

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY
    Why does the Shoulder Drop get to vary so much?
    'cos it's a pants move that no one likes...???(IMHO)
    Gordy
    ~ It's a Dance Thing ~


    'Τα δόντια μου είναι μου δικοί - οι γόμμες δεν είναι'

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  7. #27
    The Dashing Moderator
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    Re: Shoulder Drop Variations

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    'cos it's a pants move that no one likes...???(IMHO)
    Maybe - but it seems to have replaced the sway (which also seemed to be a beginner's move for a while) -and I didn't like the sway much as a beginners' move either.
    Love dance, will travel

  8. #28
    Ceroc Teacher Little Em's Avatar
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    Re: Shoulderdrop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    Errrr.........no........




    rude!

  9. #29
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Shoulderdrop

    Quote Originally Posted by littleemc-central
    rude!
    Just playful - I was actually reminiscing last night with another Ceroc teacher of the old school how training had changed over the years and how the 'cheese of the training' has been interpreted and implemented (or not) by teachers....

    All in jest little cute one.....have a hug...
    Gordy
    ~ It's a Dance Thing ~


    'Τα δόντια μου είναι μου δικοί - οι γόμμες δεν είναι'

    www.vatsim-uk.org

  10. #30
    Ceroc Teacher Little Em's Avatar
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    Re: Shoulderdrop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    Just playful - I was actually reminiscing last night with another Ceroc teacher of the old school how training had changed over the years and how the 'cheese of the training' has been interpreted and implemented (or not) by teachers....

    All in jest little cute one.....have a hug...

    The course has changed quite a lot from what i hear from teachers old an new!!........ the 'cheesy' lines for the key points are always good!!

    Though i must admit i only had the courage to use one proper cheese line on one of my key points the other night and i did get a laugh!!....(at me or with me im not too sure!! )

    i think its more of how you say it than what you say?

    If you have any tips for me on anything this would b good!!!!

  11. #31
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Re: Shoulderdrop

    Quote Originally Posted by littleemc-central
    If you have any tips for me on anything this would b good!!!!
    Do what feels right.......find your own style....if ever the class has more fun than you - give up teaching........

    Mind you...that's me.......
    Gordy
    ~ It's a Dance Thing ~


    'Τα δόντια μου είναι μου δικοί - οι γόμμες δεν είναι'

    www.vatsim-uk.org

  12. #32
    Ceroc Teacher Little Em's Avatar
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    Re: Shoulder Drop

    Tips noted and taken on board!!

    I feel a bit static at the moment still..... like im a recorded message!!

    hope i dont come across like that.....youll have to come up to one of my classes and see for youself one night.....would b lovely to have you an sal there??????? thur night @ Rugby is it a possibility? Hhmmm?

    u going to Twyford by any chance this sat?

    E x

  13. #33
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    Re: Shoulderdrop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    Just playful - I was actually reminiscing last night with another Ceroc teacher of the old school how training had changed over the years and how the 'cheese of the training' has been interpreted and implemented (or not) by teachers....

    All in jest little cute one.....have a hug...
    Did the conversation consisit of seven ,eight (with false grin)

  14. #34
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Shoulderdrop

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon r
    Did the conversation consisit of seven ,eight (with false grin)
    Certainly did, with an upward intonation on the eeeeeeeeeight.....


    'Ickle Em,

    I'm on my annual pilgrimage this weekend so can't make it to Twyford.....

    It's the World Superbikes at Brands Hatch......lots of noise with hot and throbbing things between men's legs and copious amounts of leather.....

    Mind you, if Andy McG is having a party this weekend..........could get the same kind of experience......
    Gordy
    ~ It's a Dance Thing ~


    'Τα δόντια μου είναι μου δικοί - οι γόμμες δεν είναι'

    www.vatsim-uk.org

  15. #35
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    Re: Strategies to keep beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigger Andy
    As it has been explained to me ...
    "Beginners moves" are not necessarily called that because they are easy.
    There are some more complicated moves included because they form the basis of what is to come.
    Thanks for passing that on, but I am not buying that argument for the "shoulder drop". I have seen some beginners having difficulty and coming close to inflicting pain with the arm-jive nelson, but I can see the point of that move.

  16. #36
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Re: Strategies to keep beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    Thanks for passing that on, but I am not buying that argument for the "shoulder drop". I have seen some beginners having difficulty and coming close to inflicting pain with the arm-jive nelson, but I can see the point of that move.
    Is this the arm jive taught by Nelson (fro the South / South West...or do you mean the Armjive Swizzle...???

    Devil's Advocate mode off ...
    Gordy
    ~ It's a Dance Thing ~


    'Τα δόντια μου είναι μου δικοί - οι γόμμες δεν είναι'

    www.vatsim-uk.org

  17. #37
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    Re: Shoulder Drop Variations

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY
    I've seen a few variations on this move.
    My question is though - if it's a beginner's move and everything is supposed to be standard from Ceroc venue to Ceroc venue, shouldn't it be the same for all Ceroc venues?
    I thought that too! I don't like it either. As a taxi dancer, I find that most of the guys have problems with it (and some of the girls). We were taught the long version, and I think they also have problems remembering it! The class where this was taught with 4 other moves also significantly overran timewise.

    Also if the moves are taught partly because they lead onto other intermediate variations (like the first move, or the basket) then I can't see what the shoulder drop is doing there from that point of view either - I've not commonly done any variations on this that I can think of!

  18. #38
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    Re: Strategies to keep beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    Is this the arm jive taught by Nelson (fro the South / South West...or do you mean the Armjive Swizzle...???

    Devil's Advocate mode off ...
    swizzle

    n : any of various tall frothy mixed drinks made usually of rum and lime juice and sugar shaken with ice


    don't recognise that ... though it sounds like a good innovation.

    or

    To convert external names, array indices, or references within
    a data structure into address pointers when the data structure
    is brought into main memory from external storage (also called
    "pointer swizzling"); this may be done for speed in chasing
    references or to simplify code (e.g. by turning lots of name
    lookups into pointer dereferences). The converse operation is
    sometimes termed "unswizzling".

    I rest my case, does that sound like a beginner move?

  19. #39
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    Re: Strategies to keep beginners

    One query I have with the shoulder drop - how do you lead the lady to let go of your shoulder&right hand and catch your left hand with her right? As opposed to just grabbing your left hand with her left, for example?

  20. #40
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Re: Strategies to keep beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    One query I have with the shoulder drop - how do you lead the lady to let go of your shoulder&right hand and catch your left hand with her right? As opposed to just grabbing your left hand with her left, for example?
    Offer your left hand behind just before letting go of your right hand. As men step forward, let go of the ladies hand on your shoudler and (hopefully) the ladies will take hold....

    Kinda like how do the ladies know how to take hold of your left hand when doing the catapult...???

    Clear offer behind....

    Nasty, nasty move.....(IMHO)
    Gordy
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    'Τα δόντια μου είναι μου δικοί - οι γόμμες δεν είναι'

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