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Thread: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    I danced with a women recently and she told me many times that "she was crap" her words.

    Now this was her first time and it put me off

    She wasn’t a great dancer but it was her first time so, so what ?

    I tried to encourage her, but then I wonder why we do that ?

    I've done this. I must have apologized 6 or 7 times at the Hammersmith champs when I was paired of with a teacher in the lucky dip !

    There is a difference between saying 'be gentle I’m a beginner' and constantly reminding your partner at what ever level your not good enough to dance with that person !

    I could have told her yes you are crap and that dance teacher could have said to me yes your not very good but it wouldn't help would it.

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    I think people do it for lots of reasons..

    Some beause they are very new and feel overwhelmed
    Some because they are very shy and feel like they have to 'warn' people
    Some because they are very modest and genuinely don't believe they are any good
    Some because they like it when people say 'no, you're not, you're good'
    And some for a mixture of the above....

    I think when it's the first reason (and it sounds as though the lady you were dancing with was in this category) then all you can do is be as encouraging as possible, tell them they *aren't* crap and do all those wonderful things to make them relax and enjoy themselves that people did for us when we were starting out and were so nervous we couldn't remember our own names, let alone dance

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    We do it to encourage .... and build morale


    ... and hope that others do the same for us ...
    Last edited by Peter; 29th-July-2004 at 12:00 PM.

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    I danced with a women recently and she told me many times that "she was crap" her words. ...
    Responses I might use:
    "Oh, good! I need somebody to look up to me sometimes."
    "Don't remind me of when I started"

    "This is called the slow comb, you just stand there and wiggle until I push you back. Hey, we're dancing! Hey, we're looking cool ... "
    and /or Simple one handed bounce in and out. Repeat "hey, we're dancing ..."

    and/or Recurrent hand jive motion whilst going down and up. It does not matter if she just stands up. " Hey..."

    and/or This is called a freeze. "Hey ..."

    If I can raise a smile, and I usually can, "If you are enjoying yourself you are doing it right."
    I often use the speech about it being a male led dance, and it being my job to lead her correctly, "Just go where I put you".

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    ... and/or Recurrent hand jive motion whilst going down and up....
    I'm definitely not with it today ... I've just been trying to figure out which move could possibly be called the 'Redcurrant hand jive'!
    R.

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    I danced with a women recently and she told me many times that "she was crap" her words.
    There used to be one man who gave me the creeps. He always used to ask for a dance by saying that he wasn't good enough to dance with me. One week (I must have had a touch of PMT), I agreed that no, he wasn't good enough to dance with me. Errr.....he has never asked me to dance since. Result!

    Personally, I'd never tell a man that I wasn't good enough to dance with him.............................I'd let him find out for himself and then agree with him that all my errors must be his fault as he is leading. After all, whatever is wrong, it's always the man's fault.

    Daisy
    (A fussy little flower)
    Last edited by Daisy Chain; 29th-July-2004 at 12:46 PM.

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    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Chain
    There used to be one man who gave me the creeps. He always used to ask for a dance by saying that he wasn't good enough to dance with me. One week (I must have had a touch of PMT), I agreed that no, he wasn't good enough to dance with me. Errr.....he has never asked me to dance since. Result!

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    I danced with a women recently and she told me many times that "she was crap" her words.

    Now this was her first time and it put me off
    Er, why on earth would it put you off?

    Lots of 1st time beginners say this - it's because they feel awkward, uncoordinated, foolish - any one of a number of things people feel when they start learning something.

    If I'm taxiing and they say this to me, I sometimes grin at them and say "you're supposed to be crap for the first few weeks, otherwise we'd have nothing to teach you". That always gets a smile and breaks the ice.

    Or I may say "It's completely normal to feel crap at the beginning but don't let that put you off - you should have seen me when I started, I was dreadful"

    Or if I can tell they're going to be able to learn to follow pretty quickly, I stick my neck out and say "I promise you, you won't feel so bad by the end of this track" - and watch them start to get a grin a mile wide as they start to dance.

    IMHO, if you're an experienced dancer and you can't do/say something along these lines, and in particular if it puts you off when they talk like that, then you shouldn't dance with first time beginners. And it's not enough just to say they aren't crap, cos it sounds like you're bullsh1tt1ng them, which will make it worse for them.

    Chris
    Last edited by ChrisA; 29th-July-2004 at 12:54 PM.

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Just need to check whether it wrong of me but, in the lesson last week, I moved onto a man who beamed and greeted me with the words "Complete Rookie"

    I beamed back at him and stated "Complete Expert"

    Sorry Gus. No wonder some beginners don't come back for a 2nd week.

    Daisy.

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    The exact words you use do not matter, but gently you need to explain

    The best way to improve your dancing is to dance

    Your first lessons are always then most difficult

    And next time you dance with them let them know their dancing has improved

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    I'm afraid I felt like starting every dance at Southport with an apology, simply because I thought everyone there was more experienced than me,to 'warn them' I suppose. And when I was dancing with forumites who I knew were good dancers, I felt bad when I got a move wrong - but - they just smiled, said it was their fault (even when it wasn't), etc - really nice. I don't think I had a single bad dance and by the end of the weekend wasn't apologising any more, or not as much.

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    IMHO, if you're an experienced dancer and you can't do/say something along these lines, and in particular if it puts you off when they talk like that, then you shouldn't dance with first time beginners. And it's not enough just to say they aren't crap, cos it sounds like you're bullsh1tt1ng them, which will make it worse for them.


    People who aren't used to touching and communicating in a "dance" way often need some sort of ice-breaker before the dance begins. "Would you like to dance" "Yes please" isn't quite enough and so a comment like "By the way I'm crap" is just a persons way of trying to create some sort of go-between and relationship between you as people. Newbies are people and not "dancers" as such, and are used to dealing with controntational situations that make them feel uneasy by talking. Saying you're crap is a way of being submissive and looking for reassurance and support. It's not such a big thing to give if you're an experienced dancer, is it?

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    At least a couple of times a night I get women telling me "I'm not very good". My answer is usually "who told you that?" More often that not we have a nice dance - at the end of the track I ususally say to the woman something like "I thought your dancing was good, you might like to tell whoever said you weren't very good that it's him that can't lead you"

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    At least a couple of times a night I get women telling me "I'm not very good". My answer is usually "who told you that?" More often that not we have a nice dance - at the end of the track I ususally say to the woman something like "I thought your dancing was good, you might like to tell whoever said you weren't very good that it's him that can't lead you"
    That's great, that would really buck up someones confidence. We can all remember back to the days when the first person said "You're good!" and you'd go home with your head hardly fitting through the door and would be telling all your friends for a week. Well done Andy!

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    I think comments like that are just nervousness. They state something that is obvious for almost any beginner as a brief apology, because they're nervous, a way of saying "be gentle with me", whatever. I've been dancing for years, but when I was a beginner at Ceroc I did it too, it was just nerves and not wanting to look foolish.

    I've found that as a taxi dancer the best thing to do is to be honest. I don't try and flatter beginners with false praise because I want them to learn and get better - and if they already think they know it all they won't. So with everyone I dance with I try and find something they do well and pick up on that - this calms them down and also makes them more receptive to constructive criticism:
    I had a lady in the revision class last night that was having terrible trouble with the moves, so on the next rotation of ladies I made sure she was dancing with me and when I did the move with her it was almost a complete disaster, but she did the most wonderful spin! So, very quietly, I said to her "you spin beautifully" and she had the most almighty grin - and spent the rest of my taxi-session asking me and the other taxi dancer questions and practicing, and she was so much better by the end!

    All it takes is someone to be understanding, offer a little encouragement and praise where it's due and soon enough beginners stop doing the 'I'm crap' comment before a freestyle dance because they know that there are things they can do well and things they can work on just like everyone else. Some of the best dancers I know will be the first to admit that they still have a lot to learn...

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    Er, why on earth would it put you off?

    Lots of 1st time beginners say this - it's because they feel awkward, uncoordinated, foolish - any one of a number of things people feel when they start learning something.

    Chris
    No I think there is a big big difference between "I'm new or be gentle or i'm not good at this" mentioned once or twice against a constant Im no good in a dance which lets be fair doesn't happen that often. I think the word "crap" really bought it home.

    However it can happen at all levels, a women said to me why I don't do more drops, I said I never really learnt them and she started to show me some which was fine. If I said Im so sorry I cant do drops 7 times during the rest of the dance/s that would be different

    In the 10yrs of dancing i've only walked of twice because Im afraid the girl was so bad she would cause an injury to me or her and each time Ive apologized.

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    No I think there is a big big difference between "I'm new or be gentle or i'm not good at this" mentioned once or twice against a constant Im no good in a dance which lets be fair doesn't happen that often. I think the word "crap" really bought it home.
    I still say "Sorry" or "I'm so sorry" if I bugger something up. Are you sure that the look on your face wasn't why she was saying I'm crap. Sometimes I've found that if I dance with someone who makes me feel crap I keep trying to apologise and perhaps make them soften towards me. You get a move wrong and you see the look on the persons face, so you say "don't mind me, I'm useless" and it's said tongue in cheek, but half meaning because you feel the need to make excuses and in effect, lighten up the catalogue of disasterous moves! You did say you was put off by what she'd said, so perhaps she could sense that in your body language, hence kept on trying to compensate for being a beginner, by stating "I'm crap" at various points through the dance. If you feel uncomfy, sometimes that's what people do.

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    No I think there is a big big difference between "I'm new or be gentle or i'm not good at this" mentioned once or twice against a constant Im no good in a dance which lets be fair doesn't happen that often. I think the word "crap" really bought it home.
    Let me suggest a motto: "When in a hole, stop digging."

    If you, a dancer of 10 years' standing, have to listen to a 1st-time beginner saying they're crap, or expressing their feeling of awkwardness in any damn way whatsoever, then your job is to do everything in your power to make the dance as enjoyable and fun as damn well possible, and leave them feeling a little less crap.

    It is not to feel "put off" yourself, poor diddums.

    If you can't do that, don't dance with beginners.

    Oh yes, and what Pammy said about body language...

    Chris

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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    I think I'd quite endear myself to the dancer who said 'that'

    at least it's better that one I got last night........ A man asked me to dance, he was obviously a beginner and wasn't at all clear what he was trying to lead but I tried to follow as 'best' as I could, smiling nicely, in a non critical way!
    Then he chirped up, 'Oh! I saw you dancing with some other guys before and I thought you could do it! I replyed sweetly, 'don't be fooled by all you see! Who was I to disillusion the guy?
    Last edited by Lory; 29th-July-2004 at 05:52 PM.
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    Re: When we say "Im not good enough for you" (dance)

    Of course, one can do everything in one's power to make the dance great... AND feel a little put off. A learning point for non-Ceroc life: I'll have to remember not to apologise to the plumber for my lack of plumbing ability.

    Body language is a good point. When something happens that I don't expect (whether it's good or bad), I always get a half-second flash of consternation across my face, and that does get apologies. I'm working on replacing this with the little yelp of surprise I find so attractive in followers...

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