View Poll Results: What do you think is the average age of the crowd at your venue...???

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  • Ceroc venue....18 or under

    0 0%
  • Other venue...18 or under

    0 0%
  • Ceroc venue...19 - 25

    1 1.14%
  • Other venue...19 - 25

    1 1.14%
  • Ceroc venue...26 - 35

    8 9.09%
  • Other venue...26 - 35

    7 7.95%
  • Ceroc venue...36 - 45

    31 35.23%
  • Other venue...36 - 45

    20 22.73%
  • Ceroc venue...46 - 55

    13 14.77%
  • Other venue...46 - 55

    4 4.55%
  • Ceroc venue...56 - 65

    0 0%
  • Other venue...56 - 65

    0 0%
  • Ceroc venue...65 plus

    2 2.27%
  • Other venue ...65 plus

    0 0%
  • What is Ceroc...???

    1 1.14%
  • I'm to young to understand the big words or too old to remember what they mean...

    0 0%
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Thread: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

  1. #21
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Well said. At the time Annalisa qualified (gorgeous, blond, 18 ) me and Paul (Newcastle) qualified ... so I guess that sort of evened things out . HOWEVER, there is defintiely a thing about looks and image ... I sent down two dancers for interviews. One was mid 20's, good looking but average dance/presentation skills, the other was a superb dancer, experienced profesional presenter but more my age ... guess which one got through and which one failed
    I don't think that we need to guess....

    I think that several teachers (no names) were probably very lucky that they became teachers when they did. I'm sure that several would never have been accepted onto the CTA course had they come into the dancing scene later....

    Would have been a shame, since some of the people that would never have been accepted are among the better teachers (my opinion obviously).

    Trampy

  2. #22
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    I think that several teachers (no names) were probably very lucky that they became teachers when they did. I'm sure that several would never have been accepted onto the CTA course had they come into the dancing scene later....
    Not quite sure what time frame you are talking about ... the unofficial age limit has been in place for a long time. When I had my interview with Mr & Mrs Ceroc (James and Jamie), James looked me right in the eye as he talked about the aim to have teachers in the same age range as the traget dancer range ... i.e. under 30. I was significantly over that age range by then I was a bit surprised that I was allowed to do the course. My impression was that if I hadn't been a franchisee I wouldnt have been accepted on the course.

    Another point. Cant remeber who told me, think it was Janie, but the expected 'life' of a Ceroc teacher was originaly a couple of years. Must admit, that after two years of teaching I needed to take time out but after a year I was itching to get back into it again.

  3. #23
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    Well I was asked to teach for Jive Bug. I'm still waiting for clarification of where I stand with the CTA
    How come it's taking so long? It's been months !!

    Chris

  4. #24
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    I think that several teachers (no names) were probably very lucky that they became teachers when they did. I'm sure that several would never have been accepted onto the CTA course had they come into the dancing scene later....
    So with the new regeme, has the (unwritten) policy changed? Will (/do) the CTA now take on anyone other than the beautiful people? Is the criteria for being submitted to the CTA/approved by them a secret?

  5. #25
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    So with the new regeme, has the (unwritten) policy changed? Will (/do) the CTA now take on anyone other than the beautiful people? Is the criteria for being submitted to the CTA/approved by them a secret?
    New regime - new policy...watch this space...


    As for criteria, when I went through the criteria was that you could dance (or at least have the ability to learn), that you could be confident in front of a crowd and present confidently / teach clearly, (or at least have the ability to learn) and that you were able to meet the requirements of being a teacher ie, had a venue to go to, were fit enough, were motivated and dedicated to becoming a teacher and as for other criteria...who knows.....


    Ultimately, as long as a franchisee puts you forward (or you are buying a franchise), the audition seeks to clarify the above...

    Franchisees invest a lot of money in training new teachers and have to have a venue for them to go to. It is important that anyone going through the system will be a valuable investment that will recover the initial cost...

    Indeed, Ceroc teachers are regularly 'sold' to other franchisees when they move home or move to another part of the country.....


    OK - devil's advocate part (sorry Gus)...

    Why can't franchisees decide if a person is good enough to become a teacher - they are paying the money, investing time, effort and energy in the individual.

    Franchisees have a vested interest in their own business whereas the 'select few' who do auditions and make the decision yes or no, do not necessarily have to consider their own livelihood....(Mind you they do a good job....IMHO)

    Therefore, the audition panel may have very different criteria to those of the franchisee.......
    Gordy
    ~ It's a Dance Thing ~


    'Τα δόντια μου είναι μου δικοί - οι γόμμες δεν είναι'

    www.vatsim-uk.org

  6. #26
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    How come it's taking so long? It's been months !!
    I guess it probably comes down to money. It will cost simon a lot of money to get all his existing teachers trained and CTA certified, and while Fleet continues in this status quo situation, with Ceroc HQ not insisting that simon uses CTA trained teachers, I guess he's not going to force the issue. And that's all well and good for simon, as IMHO he already has an excellant team and teaching line-up

    However it does leave us teachers somewhat in limbo.....
    From my perspective (and I imagine the others involved probably feel the same), I would like to know what's going on. Sure, we could carry on exactly the same as we are, teaching in our well established format, but will we also get the added benefits of being invited to the teacher update meetings, networking with other teachers, getting our hands on the Ceroc Moves Manual (aka the Ceroc Bible) .......

  7. #27
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    getting our hands on the Ceroc Moves Manual (aka the Ceroc Bible) .......
    [pseudo ODA mode] So, does this mean that Ceroc Plus don't work from the Ceroc Bible? So how do they know how to teach approved moves and what to call them - or what is even approved? And how do they know when to say "large fries with that, sir?"[/pseudo ODA mode]

  8. #28
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    [pseudo ODA mode] So, does this mean that Ceroc Plus don't work from the Ceroc Bible?
    Not right now - none of us have seen the hallowed bible, let alone had a chance to read it's sacred pages.
    So how do they know how to teach approved moves and what to call them - or what is even approved?
    Ahh, now that's why we're Ceroc Plus. We teach stuff that gives you more than your typical ceroc class.
    To quote Mr.Ceroc when he came down to check out Fleet:
    "It's not quite Ceroc, but I like it!"
    And how do they know when to say "large fries with that, sir?"[/pseudo ODA mode]
    Come on Andy, you know we sell Pomme-frite down at fleet, a much more classy potato snack ...

  9. #29
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    Ahh, now that's why we're Ceroc Plus. We teach stuff that gives you more than your typical ceroc class.
    To quote Mr.Ceroc when he came down to check out Fleet:
    "It's not quite Ceroc, but I like it!"
    Maybe Ceroc Plus sould write a New Testament

  10. #30
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    Maybe Ceroc Plus sould write a New Testament
    Having receipt of a copy of the Ceroc Bible of moves....I wonder how many teachers actually use it...

    Yeah, it has all of the 'known' moves listed and notated beat by beat and is useful as a reference when you want to really pick a move to pieces or put into it's component parts however personally speaking, I cannot remember the last time I referred to it for the purpose of...

    "I need to teach four moves for an intermediate class - let's have a look through the bible and find four..."

    I think most teachers will usually teach moves or variations of moves they themselves dance, have seen, have been shown and so on....

    I stand to be proven wrong.....

    I would say though that for teachers new to Ceroc or those who have just qualified, it is valuable during the first few months of teaching...
    Gordy
    ~ It's a Dance Thing ~


    'Τα δόντια μου είναι μου δικοί - οι γόμμες δεν είναι'

    www.vatsim-uk.org

  11. #31
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Ummm, Isn't Frankie Manning in his 90's ? Wasn't he teaching at Jumpin' at the Woodside ?
    Frankie Manning

    http://www.savoystyle.com/frankie_manning.html

  12. #32
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove
    I know he's not a MJ dancer, but still

  13. #33
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    Having receipt of a copy of the Ceroc Bible of moves....I wonder how many teachers actually use it...
    Ummm. I think that you'll find (from my experience of the 6 or so that I've demo'd for) that most, if not all, of the lady teachers use it.

    Which is quite understandable...

    Trampy

  14. #34
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall

    I think most teachers will usually teach moves or variations of moves they themselves dance, have seen, have been shown and so on....

    I stand to be proven wrong.....
    Not that I have access to the CTA Bible anymore ... but I do use my Blitz Bible The 'easy' way is to just teach moves I do ... but then that can become restrictive. I use the manual as a refresher of moves that aren't taught that ofetn ... and I find the beat count invaluable for ensuring I teach the move the 'standard' way, not the way I may have corrupted it into my own dance style. Additionaly, the standard phrases still tend to be the best way to describe the movement ... when I can remember the words.

  15. #35
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the averge Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    Can a young teacher (say 18 - 25) have credibility with a venue whose average age is 35 - 45 or even older...???
    Short answer - Yes.

    For me it has to be about dance ability, and being good at getting it across. Inevitably it is likely that someone who has years of experience is likely to be more able, but that will depend on their training and application. I suppose there is just a chance that Amir may have been dancing longer than me (if he started VERY young ), but regardless of how long he's been doing it, it is quite clear to me that he has more skill and understanding of dance than I ever will.

    Not so long ago, I thought it was quite reasonable to take lessons from someone whom I didn't consider to be that good a dancer, provided they were good at the teaching part. Hopefully my dancing has now progressed to a stage where I need those skills to have been fully mastered by my teacher, in order that I can appreciate and learn from them. (Cautionary note - this doesn't mean I don't learn things from dancers of all abilities, but I would normally choose lessons/workshops where I consider the teacher to be a great dancer.) IMO the age of the teacher is irrelevant.

    Greg

  16. #36
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the averge Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman
    I suppose there is just a chance that Amir may have been dancing longer than me (if he started VERY young ), but regardless of how long he's been doing it, it is quite clear to me that he has more skill and understanding of dance than I ever will.
    God. I seem to be disagreeing with everyone today!!

    You may well have been dancing longer than Amir.

    But isn't he being trained full time to be a dancer? And will be a professional dancer when he's finished??

    I'd expect anyone whose profession is something to have much more skill and understanding in that profession than someone who does that same thing part time as a hobby, regardless of the amount of time they'd been doing it.

    It may well be that he might still have more skill and understanding than you, even if you had done the amount of training that he had done (at the level he's done it). Guess we'll never find out now!!

    Trampy

  17. #37
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    I really would hope that the reason i got asked to teach is that they new me as a person and had confidence that they thought i could do the job at least relatively well and i'm an ok dancer not that it has anything to do with the way i look!!! i do happen to think that other franchises other than ceroc do have more of a overall veiw of that there should be teachers of all shapes and sizes, colours and races, and dance styles as that should reflect the different ages,shapes, sizes ect that dance. mayb this view is rather naive and i do think that ceroc go for a certain type tho that jus leaves one question why did gus get through????!!!!!!

  18. #38
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the average Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by sars
    ........and i do think that ceroc go for a certain type tho that jus leaves one question why did gus get through????!!!!!!
    Thought the answer was obvious: charm, wit, personality, startling good looks, outstanding style, awesome physique ........ then again maybe the outright blackmail and bribery may have been what swung it

  19. #39
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the averge Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    Who is the 'oldest' teacher we know - anyone over 45 still treading the (sprung floor) boards...???
    How old is Graham LeClerc ?


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  20. #40

    Re: Babe in Arms or Collecting Your Pension - How old is the averge Ceroc Dancer...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall
    Who is the 'oldest' teacher we know - anyone over 45 still treading the (sprung floor) boards...???
    well you are all invited to my 50th next feb

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