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Thread: Southern ceroc teachers/franchisees

  1. #81
    Registered User Jayne's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Well said Sheena !!!

    Originally posted by Dancing Veela
    I was turned down twice on Saturday night in Blackpool (in a very nice way) - but it was still enough to knock my confidence and give up asking any other man in the room which left me sitting for 1.5hrs not dancing.
    DVx
    DV: what follows is a general comment, not a personal attack - honest. :sorry

    Sorry but life's too short for that... Sometimes you just have to swallow your pride and keep asking until the end of the night. Then when you get home and can't sleep because you've been so active you spend that time pondering over why you were turned down - not waste all that time while you're out. Or am I being too simplistic? :sorry

    J ?

  2. #82
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Well said Sheena !!!

    Originally posted by Dancing Veela
    Yes but if we women we need to go where the better dancers are to get a fix and they all say 'no thanks' then how do we get our fix????? and how will we ever improve?
    Fair comment ... but I was fairly carefull about what I said. I would never advocate that anyone has the right to dance only with their peer group. What I was saying is that once in a while its OK to focus on improving your own dancing. In the weeks leading up to the Champs I was trying to get some floor time with my partner and so I was dancing more or less exclusively with her for an hour or so (some good it did us ... ) but when people asked for a dance I explained the situation and TRIED to catch them for a dance later on.

    Believe me, I know what its like to be turned down because someone thinks they are too good to dance with you (it still happens) but sometimes people do have genuine reasons. To be honest there are a couple of dancers I will avoid dancing with because THEY never ask anyone alse and they think they are better than everyone else ... or they just dance so roughly they are a liability.

    I'm sorry if you had 1.5 hours without a dance but given the amount of guys there (and considering you're a nice dancer) I would have thought that you would have still been spoilt for choice

  3. #83
    Omnipotent Moderator Tiggerbabe's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    They want to spend their rare chance of an evening to socialisie with each other, not dancing with "hicks from the sticks".
    Well sorry, but if he didn't mean to be misinterpreted calling beginners "hicks from the sticks" is hardly a good start.......

    I accept Gus' point about spending time dancing with only Helen when preparing for a competition - don't think anyone would grumble about that, especially if you seek out someone you've turned down (after your explanation of course) and dance with them later on.

    Neither do I see anything wrong with BigDJiver actively seeking out his challenging dancers if that's the type of evening he's after. I think David B put it very well in that you should go and ask these girls to dance if that's what you want to do.

    What I DO find offensive - and always will - is people refusing to dance with someone who has plucked up the courage to ask them. Especially if they are offhand about it and are doing so because they think the person is not good enough for them to dance with. We were ALL beginners once and I think some people could do with remembering that every once in a while.


  4. #84
    Registered User horsey_dude's Avatar
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    Toughen up!

    Its my turn to get flamed I think. The "Hicks from the sticks" comment was very provocative but other than that I thought there were some valid points in BJ's post. I don't think that the "Spirit of CEROC" as one poster (I think Gus) put it, is that you must dance with everyone even if your leg has just fallen off.

    An example of constructive refusal to dance might be the following case: we had a guy come to CEROC who was a real slease he was always touching the women in a way that bordered on inappropriate and when he was wasn't doing that he would be leering at them. He was always on the lookout for "fresh meat" and a number of beginning women left because of him. Now I would have loved to have seen some woman say "no I don't want' to dance with you because you are a slimy creep!". It was very difficult because he never did anything that was actually illegal or bad enough to ban him but he made the women very uncomfortable. Luckily he moved on to another franchise.

    Its easier to preach about not turning people down if you are a guy because you don't get asked as much but personally I don't want to dance with someone who does not want to dance with me. If a woman does not want to dance then that is her perogative.

    If I get turned down then so be it! If someone turns me down in a nice way then I will ask them in future and if the answer is still no then I will not ask again. If they want a dance then they will have to ask me.

    Imagine if you applied the same rules to sex or marraige? You can't turn anyone down... now that would be interesting.

  5. #85
    Registered User Dancing Veela's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well said Sheena !!!

    Originally posted by Jayne
    DV: what follows is a general comment, not a personal attack - honest. :sorry

    Sorry but life's too short for that... Sometimes you just have to swallow your pride and keep asking until the end of the night. Then when you get home and can't sleep because you've been so active you spend that time pondering over why you were turned down - not waste all that time while you're out. Or am I being too simplistic? :sorry

    J ?
    Jayne, you are quite right - but sometimes when you are feeling a little sensitive anyway it can just get to you - other times my attitude is 'their loss'

    You don't know what is going on in someone elses head and they could have just had a really bad day, so be sensitive to other people's feelings (and don't get me wrong, the guys were really nice when they turned me down!)


    DVx

  6. #86
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    DV
    I would like to offer you an apology, as, after finally finding out who you are and being introduced to you at Blackpool ,I did not ask you for a dance or three :sorry Very remiss of me, but hopefully the oportunity will arise again soon........hope you don't turn me down

  7. #87
    Registered User Dancing Veela's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dance Demon

    but hopefully the oportunity will arise again soon........hope you don't turn me down
    The Route 66 party on 21st March????? And there's not a chance I'll turn you down - Looking forward to all 3 already!

    DVx

  8. #88
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    Don't be disheartened.....

    Just to get back on thread-ish...

    Having a couple of Ceroc teachers as close personal friends, I recently dixcovered that having one's head up one's own arse actually helps with the execution of the super duper advanced moves... most of which can only be achieved in that glorious land, hemmed in by the M25.

  9. #89
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    Where to start. I do not think anybody should dance with anybody that they do not want to. I have never refused a dance, only ever delayed one. I do not think anybody should criticise anybody for refusing, provided it is politely. (They are so vain that they turned ME down? Pots and kettles?)
    Hammersmith is open to anybody, and is "known". It attracts a fair number of non-dancer lechers, attracted by the "they don't say no" reputation. There are always lonely ladies that have no interest in dance in itself. I have not been there in a long time. IMO it was too crowded and poorly lit to be safe.
    I am sorry if "doing my bit" caused offence. Beginner is a moment in time. It is not something that ever should be looked down upon. I believe in Modern Jive as a social, physical and artistic activity to be propogated so that as many people as possible can enjoy it. "Doing my bit" in my case is dancing at a new night for the last few months to help get it on its feet instead of at my favourite one. I miss the selfish opportunity to extend myself. I am not "fabby", more a bit of a cart-horse, but I am a good lead. I enjoy the thrill of seeing the relief on a nervous beginners face when she realises that someone will ask her to dance, and she finds that she can actually do the dance and enjoy it.
    As for "Scots", I am 3/4 Scottish. People are much the same all over. Scottish 60 mile journeys do not cross London.

  10. #90
    Registered User John S's Avatar
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    Bigdjiver:

    Well put, well written and glad to see you've not been chased away. Stand up for yourself and your views, and welcome to the Forum!

  11. #91
    Chief Worrier PeterL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by John S
    Bigdjiver:

    Well put, well written and glad to see you've not been chased away. Stand up for yourself and your views, and welcome to the Forum!
    here here!

  12. #92
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    There is another issue that affects many London events. There are groups of people who dance ballroom, swing, rock'n'roll and even Salsa who turn up at London weekend nights because there is nothing happening that night in their particular style. You can get turned down because the lady is not there to dance Modern Jive.

    Other issues that affects Hammersmith - a few times a year there are Ceroc training courses. Many of the teachers and franchisees that attend, who come from all over the country, gather at Hammersmith. There are to many old friends to get together with to fit into the evening. Their day may have started with a long journey, comprised mentally and physically demanding dance lessons on the new moves. They may be sitting on the Hammersmith stage watching their personal idols dance some of those moves together, something most venues would clear the floor to watch, and some stranger comes up to them and requests a dance. Hmm...
    My favourite track is "Fever". I have not had a quality dance to it in seven years. It does not get played at my local venues. Having travelled to London, the one time I did not get asked to dance it by a beginner my partner was a teacher who had just had an operation, which she told me all about. I can understand that there are many circumstances that would make people want to refuse an invitation.

  13. #93
    Registered User Debster's Avatar
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    Horrified!

    Wow, I've been missing out on a heck of a conversation here - only just discovered while procrastinating on some real work I should be doing....

    I'm horrified to find my favourite spot at Hammersmith is called "refusal row" way back in this thread!! Admittedly I only spend about 2 minutes there during the whole night when I have to stop or collapse through complete exhaustion.

    Interesting how Hammersmith has become such a focus in this conversation too. I guess because it is so big and likely to have a a higher number of very good dancers on a Saturday night.

    Lots of good points made by lots of people here I'd like to support and add light to.

    On Hammersmith - it not only gets a high number of great dancers but a high number of sleazy dancers too. I've been scared off the dark grizzly bar end of the room by a couple of particularly slimy dances with sleazy men. But gee, what can you expect in a big city! Besides the stage end not only has more light, it is a great vantage point to watch the good dancers, something you can't see nearly as well from the chairs down the sides.

    On Southern attitude - I'm the first to say the attitude can stink but having lived here over 2 years now I can understand a little bit. You would need a split personality to live in London and be the happiest friendliest person on earth at a huge Ceroc evening. Hey, I do my best, but you get to learn ways of dealing with living in a crowded scary environment, such as keeping to yourself. It's a bit like the 'driving 60 miles' comment, you need to look at the context as well as the argument.

    On refusing dances - I never want to and am genuine if I have to politely excuse myself for reasons such as an injury. Come to think of it a couple of months ago, later in the evening I did have to start getting picky, my arm was really wrecked from a couple of unintentionally harsh moves. And it may sound catty but there are only a few guys I can completely trust not to hurt it further, e.g. Viktor. and so I may have been appearing to get very snobby at the end there, but really it was fear of pain induced. I really will dance with anyone who asks normally (apart from 2 or 3 guys I run away from because of previous VERY bad experiences with them)

    Anyway... I'm probably starting to appear to like the sound of my own typing here... Just wanted to stick up for London for a change, I'm usually pretty harsh about it. But didn't want other potential visitors to be put off by the bad wrap it has been getting here. It really can make for a great night dancing! Really!

    And finally...
    Having a couple of Ceroc teachers as close personal friends, I recently dixcovered that having one's head up one's own arse actually helps with the execution of the super duper advanced moves... most of which can only be achieved in that glorious land, hemmed in by the M25.
    Love it Cracked me up! Maybe you had to be there/here...

  14. #94
    Registered User horsey_dude's Avatar
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    Refusal Row....

    I am really looking forward to seeing refual row for myself. I have been travellng around New Zealand on holidy and going to different franchises while I am staying in a towm. I went to the brilliant Hamilton franchise last night.

    I did all the clases since it was the same price and in the beginners class we did a variation on the quarter back. Every time we did it one woman would leap accross and try to wrench my arm up as high as she could behind my back. After asking her nicely to be more gentle I tried asking it nastily and added on a glare at the end. She didn't change. After years of dancing with different people I have learned to jam my hand on my hip when doing those kinds of moves to protect my shoulder (I have broken both collarbones and dislocated my shoulder doing other things) when dancing with beginners.

    Before anyone jumps on me for not being tolerant of beginners, try asking yourself this: If you are doing something that is hurting another peron and they ask to to be more careful and you don't even try then do you really deserve that kind of condiseration?

    If she had asked me to dance that night I would have truned her down.... Does that make me a bad person?

  15. #95
    Chief Worrier PeterL's Avatar
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    Re: Refusal Row....

    Originally posted by horsey_dude


    I did all the clases since it was the same price and in the beginners class we did a variation on the quarter back.
    At the risk of sounding stupid. We probably just use different names for moves here.

    What is a quarter back?

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    Re: Re: Refusal Row....

    Originally posted by PeterL
    At the risk of sounding stupid. We probably just use different names for moves here.

    What is a quarter back?
    You stand behind a line of seven to ten beefy guys, call out some random numbers, then one of them thrusts something like a rugby ball in your hands. You stare blankly for a few seconds before being flattened by one of another five or six beefy guys.

  17. #97
    Chief Worrier PeterL's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Refusal Row....

    Originally posted by Graham
    You stand behind a line of seven to ten beefy guys, call out some random numbers, then one of them thrusts something like a rugby ball in your hands. You stare blankly for a few seconds before being flattened by one of another five or six beefy guys.

    Originally posted by horsey_dude
    (I have broken both collarbones and dislocated my shoulder doing other things)

    no wonder


  18. #98
    Registered User horsey_dude's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Refusal Row....

    Originally posted by PeterL
    no wonder

    ha ha... A quarter back is where the guy turns to the side and his arm goes up behind his back and he looks over his shoulder at the lady.... It is not nice having your arm yanked up behind your back.......

    I have managed to avoid any serious Ceroc injuries... it has always been mountain bikes and horses that have been my downfall.

  19. #99
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    Lets not talk about dance injuries eh....

    So far (after 4 years), the list stands at:
    Broken wrist
    Broken toe
    Partly torn ligament in right knee
    Damaged peroneous tendon.

    Okie, so the tendon was actually done playing volleyball, but it was at a dance holiday. Which I wouldn't have been at if it wasn't for dancing.

    I suffered less in 7 years of martial arts, and 9 years of rugby!!!

    Steve

  20. #100
    Chief Worrier PeterL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheTramp

    I suffered less in 7 years of martial arts, and 9 years of rugby!!!

    Yeah but did you have as much fun

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