The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

[TheTramp]

Actually I'd like to think that the loyalty of regular customers does have something to do with not only the teachers and DJs at a venue but also the rest of the crew / venue owner etc for the environment they create.

Absolutely. But in this case, it's not the teachers, DJ's or crew that's made the difference. It's the change of company.

I agree with all your points. But you still can't take it personally when it's nothing that you've changed.

And you can't blame the people who have left either. It's their decision, for whatever reason they made it. As Under Par said, it doesn't help calling them names or anything like that. If they read the forum, then it's not going to attract them back.....

Just gotta get on with the rest of the people, and keep trying to attract new ones. Wish you all the best.

Trampy

[Gus]

But in this case, it's not the teachers, DJ's or crew that's made the difference. It's the change of company.

I think its naive to believe that Jive Bug could move under the Ceroc banner and not have some fall-out. Ceroc has alientated a fair few people over the years (OK ... they are not alone in this) and some people really would not want their cash ending up in Ceroc coffers ... regardless of those at the front end of the transaction. Its no different to someone have undying admiration for a footballer ... then loosing that when they join a despicable club ... like Leeds Utd.

[DavidB]

then loosing that when they join a despicable club ... like Leeds Utd.

??? You mean we can afford to sign someone? Things are looking up.

[djsaz]

ceroc plus - not all the crew stayed the same!! i will say no more.....xx

[Lounge Lizard]

Ok Rob. firstly Fleet was only referd to in this thread cos Gus suggested it was Ceroc equilivant of Hipsters, so no need to get so defensive.
I commented that it appeared to target/put more emphasis on newer dancers rather than the top level dancers.
Something you have confirmed in your comments.

I think you are way off line with your bigoted comments

Jive Bug to Ceroc changes resulted in
Nigel nina (and I think Jules) no longer teaching
Me & sarah no longer DJ'ing - if none of us attracted any dancers I would be suprised, if the dancers that we appealed to stopped going to your venue i would not be suprised
BUT Ceroc Plus more than filled any gap with new dancers

What also suprised me was at MJC I recognised loads of dancers and not that many new faces I had expected a whole new crowd from the ceroc camp.

Considering this was possibly Ceroc's biggest weekender to date was the event well attended by the mainstream ceroc dancer (i.e. the dancers that only go to their local ceroc venue and think Hipsters is a form of clothing)
or despite it being Ceroc does it still mainly attracted the regular followers of MJC
We are not having a go at Ceroc or Hipsters here so be carefull ....you are a big lad to be perched on a wobbly soap box

[RobC]

I commented that it appeared to target/put more emphasis on newer dancers rather than the top level dancers.
Something you have confirmed in your comments.

Not at all. Yes, there has been a shift in balance of numbers towards the newer dancer, but not because we are targeting or putting any extra emphasis on them, other than the usual amount of advirtising & busking that most venues will do. In fact, since we became Ceroc Plus, we have actually put on more classes for the 'advanced' dancer, with Adam and Tas teaching every week instead of the Improvers class Debi and I used to run under Jive Bug, and we still run the monthly advanced jive class with guest teachers instead of N&N.

[ChrisA]

with Adam and Tas teaching every week

Ooh... could you give an idea of the sort of stuff they teach please, Rob?

They would be an incentive to get me down there

Chris

[Zuhal]

In fact, since we became Ceroc Plus, we have actually put on more classes for the 'advanced' dancer, with Adam and Tas teaching every week instead of the Improvers class Debi and I used to run under Jive Bug, and we still run the monthly advanced jive class with guest teachers instead of N&N.

There is surely a difference between a standard MJ evening that offers a Beginners and Beginners improver concurrant (sic) with a Intermediate class and the efforts that Ceroc/Bug/Plus are making to provide an additional Advanced Level class at any venue where there is space.

That additional class does not come from the Ceroc formula but is a valuable service that the owners of Ceroc Plus will decide is viable and desirable. Personally I admire the drive that creates the opportunity for the punter.

Zuhal

[RobC]

Ooh... could you give an idea of the sort of stuff they teach please, Rob?

They would be an incentive to get me down there

Chris

Well I've never done or seen their class because I'm always busy downstairs with the repeat beginners class, while Dan is on stage with the Intermediate class. The class is called Jive Fusion and my understanding is that they teach moves with a twist of Hip Hop, Jive and other styles thrown in. We don't video their routines like we do the beginners and intermediate classes as they often do moves which are drawn from their competition / cabaret routines and they don't want to give away their competitive edge

[Andy McGregor]

As I'd been mentioned I thought I'd chip in with my honest spin-free view.

I did used to go to Jive Bug, and not just on the nights Nigel and Nina were teaching. I liked Simon's teaching too. Even though it takes me longer than Hipsters to get to I still thought it was worth the trip.

I do go to Ceroc classes. I went to Horsham last Wednesday, Chigwell last Sunday, Godalming a couple of weeks ago, etc, etc. And I really do believe RobC when he says Ceroc Plus provides good teaching and has a good crowd of dancers.

I have, jokingly, told RobC that I'm not going because there are nearer Ceroc classes. I have compared it to McDonalds and asked why I would drive past 3 McDonalds to go to a more distant McDonalds for my identical Big Mac. This is not the main reason I don't go to Ceroc Plus in Fleet - I have not told the complete truth because the above reason is more palatable than my real reason.

The simple reason I don't go to Ceroc Plus is because they upset Nina.

[Franck]

The simple reason I don't go to Ceroc Plus is because they upset Nina.

Is that because they told her she wasn't allowed to smoke there?

[Andy McGregor]

Is that because they told her she wasn't allowed to smoke there?

Very funny, I tried to give you some positive rep for that but it seems you even need to spread it around before you can give rep to the master.


And, to answer your question, after teaching for Jive Bug for quite some time, Nina was told that them joining Ceroc meant that they could no longer employ Nigel and Nina as teachers.

[RobC]

And, to answer your question, after teaching for Jive Bug for quite some time, Nina was told that them joining Ceroc meant that they could no longer employ Nigel and Nina as teachers.

OK, I might be wrong here, but I believe that it was actually Nigel we were not allowed to have teach for us, due to his involvement with a competing london venue..... Nina was not the issue, but of course, the chances of getting her back down to Fleet without Nigel ....
(I believe the same holds true about their absense from MJC.)

[Andy McGregor]

OK, I might be wrong here, but I believe that it was actually Nigel we were not allowed to have teach for us, due to his involvement with a competing london venue.....

Which brings us neatly back on-topic. It seems to me that Ceroc HQ see Hipsters as the spawn of the devil. I can not imagine that it was Simon who stopped Nigel and Nina from teaching for him. My guess is that it was a condition of him becoming a Ceroc franchisee.

And now we come on to the hypocrisy of this decision. Let's assume that RobC is right when he says "it was actually Nigel we were not allowed to have teach for us, due to his involvement with a competing london venue". Let's consider this further.

1. John Brett is DJ and partner in Hipsters. He is also DJ at many Ceroc Metro venues.

2. Nigel works for Ceroc Metro recruiting people to take part in Jive Masters.

3. Our own Lounge Lizard, Peter Phillips runs his own successful, competing, dance organisation - and he was a DJ at MJC. This is what the MJC website says about him "he frequently plays guest slots at our Fleet and Bisley venues including our last new years eve dance".

If we consider the above, it seems that the "involvement with a competing venue" rule has not been applied unilaterally. The only thing I can think of is that this rule might only apply to teaching - but don't Joseph and Tricia teach at their own venue?

I have no answer to offer, I could make something up to possibly explain why events have taken the course they have - but I leave that to others who are sooo much better than me at fabrication

In the meantime I'm left with a small light blinking on my control panel that says "no proper answer given", "no proper answer given", "no proper answer given", etc.

But I do have another question. What, exactly, have Ceroc HQ got against Hipsters?

..or is it personal?

[Gadget]

Is there going to be a "wooden spirtle" award at the BFG for stirring it? If so, I nominate McG.

Does it really matter what the reasons were behind the descision? It was between Nigel and Ceroc Plus - all anyone else needs to know, or should be interested to know is that he's not teaching there. It's in the past. A descision has been made, and everyone should now be looking at the present, leading to the future.

I really don't understand what the fascination is with gossip. I suppose that's why I don't like soaps on TV.

[Martin]

I have been told to my face, by more than one person, that they no longer come to Fleet because we are Ceroc ! That seems pretty clear to me.

Maybe it was unfair for me to use 'a lot', but these people do exist.


I think bigot is a suitable description.

mmmm strange thread - I read it as it was talking about Hipsters originally.

One observation I did have was that word biggot...

Keeping in mind the statement "OK, I might be wrong here, but I believe that it was actually Nigel we were not allowed to have teach for us, due to his involvement with a competing london venue....."

Now has this got any corrolation to the below description also offered by yourself?

big·ot
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

mmmm does make you wonder?

Back on Thread - after all it not all about you (athough reading the second half of this thread one might think it is )

There is definately a place for Hipsters - is it sucessful? - Well if you mean raw numbers given it's location and teaching, DJ'ing staff, no it is not - If you mean providing the more advanced dancer somewhere to go (your prime steak burger if you like) yes it is very successful.
In the past it was Lindy hop and Salsa that got the advanced dancers as Ceroc only catered up to intermediate Level.
Go Hipsters...

[Andy McGregor]

Is there going to be a "wooden spirtle" award at the BFG for stirring it? If so, I nominate McG.

Does it really matter what the reasons were behind the descision? It was between Nigel and Ceroc Plus - all anyone else needs to know, or should be interested to know is that he's not teaching there. It's in the past. A descision has been made, and everyone should now be looking at the present, leading to the future.

I really don't understand what the fascination is with gossip. I suppose that's why I don't like soaps on TV.

What is this post about?

Gadget doesn't dance at Fleet/Ceroc Plus, he doesn't dance at Hipsters. If anyone's stirring things up it's Gadget. And he's stirring a pot he's never going to eat from.

If Gadget doesn't understand or like Gossip he's on the wrong forum. As far as I can see, we LOVE gossip here, in fact I thought that gossip was one of the cornerstones of the Forum. So, come on Gadget, tell us what you think we should do if we're not here to gossip?

Gadget may not like gossip on TV but as far as I can see he's here and taking part in major gossip on a daily basis. Come on Gadget, get real and get authentic - you love gossip and you're in denial

[Gadget]

My point is that your post was circumstantial and tabloid in appearance:
"Nigel leaves venue!" Was he sacked? Did he quit? Or is there a conspiracy against dancers? Full story page 5&6 with exclusive pictures!!

I have no problem with discussing the pros/cons of a decision. I have no problems with discussing the ramifications of a decision. I don't really mind postulating on the reasoning behind a decision. What I dislike is your framing of it: Accusatory without presenting evidence of these convictions.
If you have discussed the reason behind the decision with Nigel and got the opposing viewpoint from Ceroc, then formed an opinion, I will apologise unreservedly for accusing you of gossip-mongering. Unfortunately the tone of your post doesn't lead me to this conclusion.

When gossip becomes inflammatory and derogatory, it ceases to be gossip and is rapidly heading towards slander and liable. In this, I want no part. My use of the term "gossip" was referring to speculating about specific people, their motives and politics. Something, personally, I try to avoid. {with the odd exception }

Admittedly it is doubtful that I will have the chance to experience any of the venues involved in the above, have never experienced the venue before Ceroc assimilation; but I was not commenting on them - only on your presentation.

{Don't know why, but I seem to be using a lot of big words today. sorry My spell check almost gave up on me }

[Andy McGregor]

My point is that your post was circumstantial and tabloid in appearance:
"Nigel leaves venue!" Was he sacked? Did he quit? Or is there a conspiracy against dancers? Full story page 5&6 with exclusive pictures!!

Nigel and Nina were told their services were no longer required when Jive Bug became Ceroc Plus, I was told by and insider that it was a condition of the deal. I thought I'd said that. I never said any of the other stuff. ONLY Gadget said those things, again I wonder why

When gossip becomes inflammatory and derogatory, it ceases to be gossip and is rapidly heading towards slander and liable. In this, I want no part. My use of the term "gossip" was referring to speculating about specific people, their motives and politics. Something, personally, I try to avoid. {with the odd exception }

Does the only derogatory stuff about Ceroc seem to be in Gadget's example? Has he used the tabloid journalists trick of posing a question rather than making a statement? Is Gadget "taking no part"? What "specific people" did Andy speculate about in an "inflammatory and derogatory" way?

{Don't know why, but I seem to be using a lot of big words today. sorry My spell check almost gave up on me }

spell check + Gadget =

[TheTramp]

Does it really matter what the reasons were behind the descision? It was between Nigel and Ceroc Plus - all anyone else needs to know, or should be interested to know is that he's not teaching there. It's in the past. A descision has been made, and everyone should now be looking at the present, leading to the future.

Can I also say that this statement is quite untrue.

For those who might either be (a) friends of Nigel, or (b) just enjoy the teaching provided by Nigel and Nina (obviously Nina isn't going to go on her own), then yes, it may well matter what the reasons are. Since it has impinged on their enjoyment of the evening.

If Lorna was to suddenly be stopped teaching in Aberdeen, then I'm sure that you'd want to know, and comment on the reason.

Agreed that you have to look to the present/future. But that doesn't mean that what's happened in the past shouldn't affect you. Or affect your choices in the new world...

Trampy