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Thread: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

  1. #41
    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Kieran Loftus' ran a sort of Hipsters (before Hipsters) at Eastleigh for the Southampton dance community.

    BTW - if you haven't experienced Kieran's teaching style, I recommend it for his novel approach and banter, etc. especially if there is heckling from Barry.

    The club went through a number of different permutations; originally it was targeted without a beginner's class -- later on a brief "style" class was added on. I think it worked quite well for several years given the location, etc. -- the fact that it didn't have a beginners class pulled in dancers from around the area because you were fairly assured of getting a good intermediate/improver level dance.

    Eventually, I think the formula got a little staid, and attendance started dropping -- and a beginner's class was started up to bring fresh bodies through. I think Kieran closed the class about 18 months or so afterwards.
    There could well have been pressure from MoJive classes or JiveRiot in that area.

    In contrast to Hipsters there was no website, and only infrequent email updates. Also Kieran doesn't tend to teach at weekenders of do cabarets like Nigel + Nina, or Andy + Rena.

    SpinDr.

  2. #42
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr
    Kieran Loftus' ran a sort of Hipsters (before Hipsters) at Eastleigh for the Southampton dance community.

    The club went through a number of different permutations; originally it was targeted without a beginner's class -- later on a brief "style" class was added on. I think it worked quite well for several years given the location, etc. -- the fact that it didn't have a beginners class pulled in dancers from around the area because you were fairly assured of getting a good intermediate/improver level dance.
    .
    Although we have similar aims ... I dont pretend that we have the teaching draw that Hipsters has. We will be operating with the baisc MJ formula ... beginners class will remain but the intermediate class will seen as an 'improvers' class ... greater emphasis on style and interpretation rather than just moves. We dont intend to make each class 'advanced' .. as I dont believe that is the path to improving dancers. The main 'Hipsters' development will be the music. We will seek to play a reasonable amount of 'advanced' tracks to challenge the dancers and encourage more dancing and less move-junkies.

    Its a hard path to tread between commercial success (i.e. just pack the numbers in) and dance development .... be interesting to see where the balance ends up.

  3. #43
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

    I think a good DJ who understands MJ is essential. JB and Roger aren't the only ones but they are amongst the best known. I think a DJ that played relentless pop music all night could kill Hipsters in a month

    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
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  4. #44
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    Sporty for me please, I've always gone for the most talented
    You're not an Old Spice person then ?


  5. #45
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    You're not an Old Spice person then ?

    OK, since you're offering: send Ginger spice too

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    IMHO Hipsters should be like Salsa or Ceroc Australia, you should be told which level you're at and given a lesson suitable for your level - you don't get much out of the lesson being too easy or too hard.
    I agree! Has this been discussed in here before? Even more interesting, has there been a poll on this topic?

  7. #47

    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    OK could the Hipsters brand be sold...
    Only events approved and moniterd by the Hipsters team can (officialy) use the name and a certain level of quality and format must be maintaind to keep using the name,
    Could other independants match the standard?
    Would anyone (organiser) be interested?
    Could ceroc go down a simmilar path using the casbah as the brand name (I keep refering to the casbah cos when I started dancing this was the top UK venue by reputation....but not anymore......or is it?
    I repeatI am not trying to say H or C is best just create an open discussion on the leading brand names
    So Gus would you consider :Hipsters of the North'
    What formula could Ceroc develop to match Hipsters
    Is there another MJ brand name (other than Hipsters or Ceroc) that is instantly recognisable outside it's region -Not sure if Leroc counts as it is not a cohesive organisation, just a group or organisers using the same name.
    LL

  8. #48
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    OK could the Hipsters brand be sold...
    ......What formula could Ceroc develop to match Hipsters
    LL
    Isn't that what Ceroc Plus is?

  9. #49

    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Isn't that what Ceroc Plus is?
    ceroc plus is the name for the ex jive bug venue run by simon, my understanding is that it has a larger infux of beginners and less advanved dancers since the change (RobC can verify)
    So no I think it has brought the successfull Ceroc formula to fleet but is not matching Hipsters
    LL

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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    ceroc plus is the name for the ex jive bug venue run by simon, my understanding is that it has a larger infux of beginners and less advanved dancers since the change (RobC can verify)
    So no I think it has brought the successfull Ceroc formula to fleet but is not matching Hipsters
    LL

    Imust admit not been back since

  11. #51
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    ex jive bug venue run by simon, my understanding is that it has a larger infux of beginners and less advanved dancers since the change (RobC can verify)
    Just musing, pending Rob's confirmation of this or otherwise....

    A notable change since Jivebug Fleet became Ceroc+ is that Nigel and Nina no longer do advanced classes there. If there are indeed fewer advanced dancers there now, I wonder if there's a connection.

    Not that I think of myself as an advanced dancer, but with N&N no longer doing their spot down there, it has less to attract me than it did before. Why would I drive all that way down the M3 when there is so much available to me in London? There are venues I greatly enjoy for different reasons on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, and from time to time at weekends, so for me to drag my danced-out corpse down to Fleet on a Thursday would need something special, and N&N (together with the dancers they attract) would have fitted that bill very nicely.

    Chris

  12. #52
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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    ceroc plus is the name for the ex jive bug venue run by simon, my understanding is that it has a larger infux of beginners and less advanved dancers since the change (RobC can verify)
    So no I think it has brought the successfull Ceroc formula to fleet but is not matching Hipsters
    LL
    To be honest, the only conclusion I can really draw from our transition from Jive Bug to Ceroc Plus, is that there appears to be a lot of biggotted dancers out there who appear to have stopped coming to Fleet just because we are now part of the Ceroc family. Anything else would just be speculation. There were just too many changes all happening at the same time to put Fleet's current status down to any one factor.

    Sure, we have had a lot of new people come down to Fleet since the start of the new year, but then we have done a number of successful busking sessions, and the new year is traditionally when a lot of people try something new and decide to work off those inches gained over christmas.

    There have also been a few people stay away that used to travel long distances once a month just to come to Nigel & Nina's advanced class (AndyMcG being one example), which has resulted in the appearance that some of our top dancers are no longer there. However, we are still running monthly advanced classes with guest teachers brought in (we have had Adam & Mandy and Mick on various occasions in the last few months), and those dancers that weren't just drawn in by N&N are still dancing with us and enjoying the monthly 'challenging' classes.

    I think what will be more interesting will be when we open a new venue down in Farnham in september. Once we get through that initial 'new venue' phase and things settle down, we will have a lot more space available to us and will be able to offer a lot more to our dancers. Anyone who has been to previous MJC's when it was held in the Farnham Maltings will know that there is space to hold up to 5 concurrent classes.

  13. #53
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    To be honest, the only conclusion I can really draw from our transition from Jive Bug to Ceroc Plus, is that there appears to be a lot of biggotted dancers out there who appear to have stopped coming to Fleet just because we are now part of the Ceroc family. Anything else would just be speculation. There were just too many changes all happening at the same time to put Fleet's current status down to any one factor.
    It seems extremely harsh to me, to use a term such as 'bigoted', when in the next breath you say that there have been too many changes for it to be possible to put things down to any one factor.

    The thing about Ceroc is that it goes to great lengths to appear consistent - content, style, format, whatever. This is one of its greatest strengths, and has contributed much to its universality in the MJ world.

    But as with many things, strengths can also manifest themselves as weaknesses, and particularly for seasoned jivers who go to lots of venues, driving a long distance to go to "another Ceroc venue" might not have the appeal of an independent - if only for its variety - if such dancers already have access to lots of good Ceroc venues.

    So even if it's true that people aren't coming because Fleet is now Ceroc, it is uncharitable verging on unfriendly, to accuse them of bigotry. In fact the more I think about it, the more astonished I am that you chose to use such a word.

    Chris

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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    It seems extremely harsh to me, to use a term such as 'bigoted', when in the next breath you say that there have been too many changes for it to be possible to put things down to any one factor.
    I have been told to my face, by more than one person, that they no longer come to Fleet because we are Ceroc ! That seems pretty clear to me.

    Maybe it was unfair for me to use 'a lot', but these people do exist.

    big·ot
    n.
    One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
    I think bigot is a suitable description.
    Last edited by RobC; 2nd-July-2004 at 05:32 PM.

  15. #55
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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    I have been told to my face, by more than one person, that they no longer come to Fleet because we are Ceroc ! That seems pretty clear to me.
    But as I say, there are legitimate reasons why someone might not go somewhere because it is Ceroc - and not because they don't like Ceroc. I like Ceroc, but I wouldn't want to go to exclusively Ceroc venues, since there isn't enough variety in the product.

    So if I choose not to drive to a Ceroc venue, whereas I might choose to drive to a non-Ceroc venue on a particular night, it doesn't mean that I don't like Ceroc, and it certainly doesn't make me a bigot.

    Chris

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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?



    Was going to write exactly what Chris said.

    And I'll add, that while Ceroc has done lots of very good things in bringing jive to the masses, it has, as a company, upset a good number of people along the way (what successful company hasn't?).

    Hence, if those people don't want to come to a venue, and contribute money towards the ceroc organisation, why should they be 'bigoted'???

    If you choose not to go to McDonalds, because you don't like the product, or you don't like that type of restaurant, or you don't like the staff who work there, you are not bigoted against McDonalds. You are just choosing which organisation you don't want to spend your money at. It's no different because it's dancing and ceroc...

    I think that you are taking people exercising their free right of choice way too personally Rob....

    Trampy
    Last edited by TheTramp; 2nd-July-2004 at 05:36 PM.

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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    Hence, if those people don't want to come to a venue, and contribute money towards the ceroc organisation, why should they be 'bigoted'???

    If you choose not to go to McDonalds, because you don't like the product, or you don't like that type of restaurant, or you don't like the staff who work there, you are not bigoted against McDonalds. You are just choosing which organisation you don't want to spend your money at. It's no different because it's dancing and ceroc...

    I think that you are taking people exercising their free right of choice way too personally Rob....
    Ok, so maybe I could have dug a bit deeper to find out if there was more to these people not wanting to come to Fleet anymore, but when someone comes regularly to a venue, and then come 1st Jan they just stop, even though (with the exception of N&N) all the teachers/crew involved with the venue remain the same, without even giving us the benefit of the doubt, I would call that pretty intolerant.

    BTW, your McDonalds analogy isn't quite accurate here. A better one would be when Burger King took over Wimpy, with people that previously ate a Wimpy restaurants but decided not to go back to the rebranded Burger King. On day 1, the way the burgers were cooked probably won't have changed much, since the original staff would need to be trained how to cook burgers the 'Burger King' way. (Which we haven't yet - we're still cooking the Wimpy way !)

    I'm not criticising peoples right to the freedom of choice, but when someone says to your face that they no longer go to a venue which you are actively involved in, because the brand name has changed ....... of course it's going to be personal to a degree.

  18. #58
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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    No. It's not at all personal. They aren't coming because of you, or anything you did. They are coming because of the brand name. That's not personal at all. That's business.

    I guess it might be personal, if you are the owner of the business, but since you're not (you're not financially backing Mike, are you?), then it can't be personal.

    And, if they've somehow been upset in the past by ceroc, because of something that ceroc did to them, or to their friends (even perceived), then it's hardly intolerant, not wanting to support the ceroc company with their money. That's just a freedom of choice thing. You can hardly expect them to support a company that they have issues with. Would you? Though, I will agree that it's a shame that this sort of thing gets in the way of the dancing....

    Trampy

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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp


    Was going to write exactly what Chris said.

    And I'll add, that while Ceroc has done lots of very good things in bringing jive to the masses, it has, as a company, upset a good number of people along the way (what successful company hasn't?).



    I think that you are taking people exercising their free right of choice way too personally Rob....

    Trampy
    And Rob if I may add that you are using language of hate instead of the all inclusive language of love and peace that might just bring more people through the door.

    Mcdonalds will try and make their product more appealing to the masses of stay away customers rather than publicly chastise them.

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    Re: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    No. It's not at all personal. They aren't coming because of you, or anything you did. They are coming because of the brand name. That's not personal at all. That's business.
    Actually I'd like to think that the loyalty of regular customers does have something to do with not only the teachers and DJs at a venue but also the rest of the crew / venue owner etc for the environment they create.

    I guess it might be personal, if you are the owner of the business, but since you're not (you're not financially backing Mike, are you?), then it can't be personal.
    You and I both know that there is more to investment in a venue than just financial ! Every teacher, DJ and crew member invests time and effort into the venue to make an evening enjoyable and, dare I say it, profitable, not just on the night, but in preparation for lessons, DJ sets, busking to attract new members ..... the list goes on. So I would argue that all of the above are personally involved in a venue and can take it personally when someone decides to stop coming to the venue for no other reason than it has changed it's name.

    You can hardly expect them to support a company that they have issues with. Would you?
    But what about a venue you were previously loyal to that had nothing to do with previous gripes ?

    Though, I will agree that it's a shame that this sort of thing gets in the way of the dancing....
    Ditto.

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