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Thread: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

  1. #21
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra Woman

    Hey Under Par, you're so diplomatic.
    Diplomatic? No! there is room for both, both are great, both very differing styles. I happen to like both styles. If they where c**p I would say as much(diplomatcally maybe) but LL tries to make the point that Amir had 200+ and Mikey 700 at Southport.

    Does that make Amir (and Kate BTW) bad teachers. I say no! LL is comparing chalk and cheese, adding 2 + 2 and coming up with David Beckham!!!!!

    Mikey had his highly entertaining much talked about STRICTLY SINFUL class and another less sinful class over the weekend. Amir and Kate had a different lesson, less highly publicised, not previously done at a weekend (to my knowledge).
    Both their lessons were great.

    LLs number crunching does not take account of the graveyard shift either the lesson just after lunchtime (from memory).

    I know LL was in his contraversial mood and accept his post in the tongue in cheek way it was supposed to be seen, I just feel comparing Amir and Mikey in such a way detracts from his original point of do Hipsters look after beginners on a Wednesday.

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    Does Amir leave all other teachers standing in his shadows? I remember at Southport he taught A good class to 200+ dancers, then Mikey had the next class, and was joined by about 700 who took part in Mikeys class. LL
    What point are you making here LL? Are you trying to say that Mikey is a better dancer than Amir? Or a better teacher? Or just more popular?

    The Spice Girls were more popular than Opera. But which contains the best musicians?

  3. #23
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    What point are you making here LL? Are you trying to say that Mikey is a better dancer than Amir? Or a better teacher? Or just more popular?

    The Spice Girls were more popular than Opera. But which contains the best musicians?
    It took me half a page of A4 to reply as you have so succinctly Andy.


    Spice Girls where good though zigger zig zag

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by under par
    Spice Girls where good though zigger zig zag
    Sporty for me please, I've always gone for the most talented

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    Sporty for me please, I've always gone for the most talented
    Scarey for me I am a masochist........I think.

    Did you hear about the sadist who threatened to beat the masochist to within an inch of his life and then didn't...................................

  6. #26
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Now here's a positive view on how classes outside London should deal with the higher standard of dancing in the metropolis, from a post I received recently [although it was posted to a distribution list, I've snipped a few details, to protect the guilty and to make a point later]:

    "It is recognised that the standard taught in London is higher than that outside of London. At ... we have always tried to maintain our levels at the highest around and together with ..., ... and our other teachers, we are working to get our standard up to the same as in London. The top level class in ... has for a long time been a high level intermediate class. You may have noticed that ...'s class has become progressively more challenging as he brings people up to London Intermediate levels and towards Advanced level techniques and routines. ...'s class will also be working to this goal. As a result, this is likely to mean some people will be asked to change the level they are in to give them the opportunity to pick up on some of the techniques they may be needing individually. Please don't be disheartened if you are asked to change, it is intended to help you and you will become a better dancer for it!"

    Shame it was from a Salsa class!

    I don't *ever* remember getting quite such a positive, and frankly honest, email from a non-London Jive class -- although I hope someone will prove me wrong.

    SpinDr.

    P.S. Oh and they kept the price for classes the same as well and they are 90 minutes in total for each level!
    Last edited by spindr; 2nd-July-2004 at 01:58 AM.

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr
    Now here's a positive view on how classes outside London should deal with the higher standard of dancing in the metropolis, from a post I received recently [although it was posted to a distribution list, I've snipped a few details, to protect the guilty and to make a point later]:

    "It is recognised that the standard taught in London is higher than that outside of London. At ... we have always tried to maintain our levels at the highest around and together with ..., ... and our other teachers, we are working to get our standard up to the same as in London. The top level class in ... has for a long time been a high level intermediate class. You may have noticed that ...'s class has become progressively more challenging as he brings people up to London Intermediate levels and towards Advanced level techniques and routines. ...'s class will also be working to this goal. As a result, this is likely to mean some people will be asked to change the level they are in to give them the opportunity to pick up on some of the techniques they may be needing individually. Please don't be disheartened if you are asked to change, it is intended to help you and you will become a better dancer for it!"

    Shame it was from a Salsa class!

    I don't *ever* remember getting quite such a positive, and frankly honest, email from a non-London Jive class -- although I hope someone will prove me wrong.

    SpinDr.

    P.S. Oh and they kept the price for classes the same as well and they are 90 minutes in total for each level!

    It sounds fantastcally positive..... there are lessons that could be learned from other styles of dancing apart from other styles of dancing.

  8. #28

    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    What point are you making here LL? Are you trying to say that Mikey is a better dancer than Amir? Or a better teacher? Or just more popular?

    The Spice Girls were more popular than Opera. But which contains the best musicians?
    Sorry not trying to make a point
    I originaly raised the point over Hipsters no longer catering for new beginners (as implied in another post)
    I questioned wherher Hipsters was being elitest or selective towards dancers
    are they creaming off the best dancers or keeping them interested in the MJ scene
    is an advanced specialist class the way forward or the mass appeal of a good entertainer.
    Hipsters is undoubatly the number one club on the MJ scene, it is therefore usefull to make a comparisom with the regular clubs.
    As an independant organiser I will look at others around me, question and learn to immprove my venues.
    Is Hipsters success based on ...
    Best Venue
    Best teachers
    Best organisation
    Best music
    The Nigel Factor
    also is Hipsters a real success in financial terms for others to emuate - eg If I payed.....
    Nigel, Jules, JB, Andy, Rena & Roger to come to my local town hall and have Franco covering the bar would I benefit from it - probably not, would the dancers on the south coast benefit?
    So just a dance based discussion, no more, no secret message
    LL

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    Is Hipsters success based on ...

    LL
    I think there is an assumption in the above question. It is assumed that Hipsters is a success. IMHO Hipsters is successful in certain terms and not yet successful in others. I also think that the success that Hipsters enjoys is a fragile and changeable thing.

    If we consider Ceroc, with a few notable exceptions, my observation is that Ceroc is about the formula, the manual, the CTA training, etc. Hipsters is about the people and the personalities: they are what makes the night what it is. So when the people change at Hipsters the product changes too. When the people change at a Ceroc night the product stays the same.

  10. #30
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    Is Hipsters success based on ...
    Best Venue
    Best teachers
    Best organisation
    Best music
    The Nigel Factor
    LL
    I think you've missed one major factor! THE DANCERS!

    I think basically it's just a self perpetuating phenomenon. Good dancers are attracted to venues where they know other good dancers will be and they know they're on a cert at Hipsters.

    Yes, it may also be the case that the not so confident or lesser dancers feel intimidated, therefore don't return. So it appears elitist!
    But how many times have we all turned up at our local venue and although it's really friendly and the teaching is of a good standard and we're made to feel really welcome, we might only be certain of getting a couple of really great dances, with the teacher etc. but because Hipsters has a 'name' in the dance world, people who are visiting London from all over are drawn towards it, therefore it has a constant turnover of the better dancers.

    And I hate to say it because I do really like the teaching there but I have a feeling that the numbers of good dancers wouldn't change that much even if they didn't have a lesson at all, cos the majority of the REALLY good dancers turn up after the lesson's finished anyway!
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  11. #31
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Maybe you'd get more turning up if there was no lesson, and just 3.5 hours of freestyle...??

    I know that'd make me come if I lived down there!!

    Trampy

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory

    And I hate to say it because I do really like the teaching there but I have a feeling that the numbers of good dancers wouldn't change that much even if they didn't have a lesson at all, cos the majority of the REALLY good dancers turn up after the lesson's finished anyway!
    It's certainly the dancers that Mrs Par goes to Hipsters for. There isn't a venue like it for a good female dancer who wants to be pushed to the limit.

    Only at weekend events do you get the amount of quality male leads other than Hipsters in the south of England. We travel at least once a week 160 miles round trip to Hipsters.

    I love the lessons but quite often get there too late to join in (bl**dy London traffic). Mrs Par sits out the lessons more often than not as it is mainly 10 ladies+ over .

    I too have become a convert though.

    Initially I refused to consider travelling so far to dance and Mrs Par travelled with other addicts from nearby. But after a few visits I got hooked and I really look forward to going now.

    I feel my standard of dancing has improved due to the lessons and the amount of superb dancers to 1. dance with and 2. watch

    Watching from the sidelines occasionally, in awe of their ability to look smooth and uncomplicated and really get into the music. I keep trying to pinch little bits of style/moves from my watching. really really helpful

    Lory if I do eventually become a good dancer does that mean I have to arrive after the lesson?
    If so it would give Mrs Par more time to do her hair before we set off. So I will have to try harder.

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    Maybe you'd get more turning up if there was no lesson, and just 3.5 hours of freestyle...??

    I know that'd make me come if I lived down there!!

    Trampy
    So would I Trampy but would Mrs Par ever get her hair done if we had to get there so early.

  14. #34

    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    so what makes Hipsters the 'dance god' magnet - Why not the Casbah or other venues
    good dancers go to Hipsters it seems cos the teaching is brill.....and arrive after or sit out the lesson (excep ChrisA, Andy et al)
    Very little mention on Music, Location, Promotion ETC.
    Would Hipsters work without JB & Rog?
    Could it be a success if located in Windsor or Central London?
    LL

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by under par
    If so it would give Mrs Par more time to do her hair before we set off. So I will have to try harder.
    Mrs Par (Sharon) is always perfectly turned out and looks a million dollars. She'd be beating them off with a stick if she spent more time on her looks

  16. #36
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Ummm. You don't think the sight of Mr. Par might scare a few off then???

    Trampy

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    so what makes Hipsters the 'dance god' magnet - Why not the Casbah or other venues
    good dancers go to Hipsters it seems cos the teaching is brill.....and arrive after or sit out the lesson (excep ChrisA, Andy et al)
    Very little mention on Music, Location, Promotion ETC.
    Would Hipsters work without JB & Rog?
    Could it be a success if located in Windsor or Central London?
    LL

    Peter a good question

    The music is important. JB Roger and Toby are brill. great mixes of MJ and bluesy music. Always a good mix of well known with the odd new more challenging tracks for good measure.

    The teaching is important. Nigel Roger Amir and co teach at consistently high levels all aspects of dance that are not covered at most other venues.

    The dancers are important. Because the teachers are so good the dancers are a relatively higher standard (even the beginners) than other venues.(trust me I dance in many local venues and I still dance with beginners a lot)

    It also helps that the venue is London based as it attracts dancers from up to a 80 mile radius if you consider the Bristol/Northampton and Sussex based visitors. If not further!

    Not being a "dance god" I can only summise that all of the above attract them.

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    so what makes Hipsters the 'dance god' magnet - Why not the Casbah or other venues?
    LL
    I've never been asked to go to the Casbah or been told anything about it. I was told about Hipsters and asked to support the opening night: so I did, and I've been going back ever since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    good dancers go to Hipsters it seems cos the teaching is brill.....and arrive after or sit out the lesson (excep ChrisA, Andy et al)LL
    As you know, I always do the lesson if I get there on time - which I make a great effort to do. Some people do sit out the lesson and chat, I think it's because Hipsters is often the only place they meet and they're catching up with gossip. This Wednesday I would have to have left at about 5.30pm to be sure of being in time for the lesson. Sue and I simple couldn't get away by that time so we didn't go - because we don't think it's worth driving all that way (four hours driving!) for an hour and a half of freestyle no matter how good the other dancers are.

    The teaching is brilliant but sometimes the other people in the class don't get the lesson because the level is pitched too high. A great woman going around the lines of male dancers who don't get it might give up after a while and chat with their friends. IMHO Hipsters should be like Salsa or Ceroc Australia, you should be told which level you're at and given a lesson suitable for your level - you don't get much out of the lesson being too easy or too hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    Very little mention on Music, Location, Promotion ETC.
    LL
    Music - mostly good
    Location - Good location for people who live in London. Not too bad for us people who live outside London compared to other London venues which don't have such good motorway links.
    Promotion - This is word of mouth: which seems to work best in MJ if you aren't after beginners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    Would Hipsters work without JB & Rog?
    I think a good DJ who understands MJ is essential. JB and Roger aren't the only ones but they are amongst the best known. I think a DJ that played relentless pop music all night could kill Hipsters in a month

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    Could it be a success if located in Windsor or Central London?
    LL
    Once you'd actually defined what Hipsters is it could work anywhere in/near a population centre that has a number of successful MJ classes

    My own opinion is that Hipsters Legend is bigger than its reality. People that don't go think it's some kind of perfect place. It's just a very good dance class with some very good, and not so good, dancers.

  19. #39
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    so what makes Hipsters the 'dance god' magnet - Why not the Casbah or other venues
    good dancers go to Hipsters it seems cos the teaching is brill.....and arrive after or sit out the lesson (excep ChrisA, Andy et al)
    Very little mention on Music, Location, Promotion ETC.
    Would Hipsters work without JB & Rog?
    Could it be a success if located in Windsor or Central London?
    LL
    Arrhhhh .. Grasshopper .. you are looking for logic! Sometimes clubs 'just' become succesfull for no reason .. or for different reasons than those that you would expect. I think it would be easy to point to the composite elements and say thats why Hipsters works .. but I'm sure that there are examples where other venues have tried the same and failed. I think its great that Hipsters works ... or at least creates a legend of the 'super-club'. I think thats what's needed eslewhere. We're going to try to create something in the North West, well a less ambitious version. We're located between a number of established clubs, starting with experienced crew at a venue with an excellent rep for freestyles, with heavy focus on music and will only used the best instructors at our disposal.

    Will it work ?? God knows ... despite all the postiive factors we could still crash and burn ... BUT its the 'myth' of Hipsters that has incentivised us to try to create a similar mecca in the North .... but is the North ready for it?

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus

    Will it work ?? .......................snip......its the 'myth' of Hipsters that has incentivised us to try to create a similar mecca in the North .... but is the North ready for it?
    Lets hope so, good luck with venture.

    All parts of the country deserve something similar to Hipsters.

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