The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

[Andy McGregor]

Well Nigel may still be free on Thursdays -- but he's not free monthly on Mondays, as he's teaching with Nina at RebelRoc in Woking, like tonight

SpinDr.

I've only been to this class once. I wouldn't have called it an advanced lesson as it had to be pitched for early intermediates to cope with - but it was very stylish - as usual

[RobC]

Seriously that is great stuff - so who do you get to teach it?

Is that once a month or every week?

Goldalming on Sundays is a weekly class usually taught by Paul Kingston.
Woking on Tuesdays is a weekly class taught by Will & Kate.
Fleet on Thursdays has a weekly Jive Fusion class taught by Adam and Tas (which may not always teach strict jive moves, but definitely gives you that something extra to think about and merge into your own dancing style), and a monthly adnvanced class with a guest teacher (last month was Mick, but was have also had Adam & Mandy down on occasion).
Not sure about the Surbiton class.

[Martin]

OK, so all credit for RobC not biting

Plus, did not know about Fulham - David and Lily, so cool

Stand corrected and humble in front of RobC and his integrity.

[Gadget]

{skip to the (--relevant--) bit to avoid rant }
I went back to re-read Andy's post to make sure that I wasn't being completely unfair: the post is littered with assumptions, presumptions and guesses that are used to draw conclusions or point the reader to a specific conclusion - if that's not tabloid gossip, then what is?

My “Headlines” were drawing (what I thought) fairly outrageous statements. I didn’t expect them to be read out of context and with any seriousness – again you used it to question people’s motives and politics (well, mine actually) I hope I’m right in reading it as a jest.

I agree that I was a bit single-minded about saying that the past bears no relevance to the present/future: To use Tramp’s parallel; if Lorna stopped teaching in Aberdeen, I would be curious as to the reason behind it (unless she was getting progressively bigger in the weeks leading up to the absence ) but I can’t think on any scenario that would affect my dancing, attendance, or lack there-of. Even if I felt that the reasoning behind the decision was bias, flawed, incorrect, dubious or outrageous. As with Gus’s thread – dance politics exist, but I don’t think they should affect my dancing, and I think that any organiser of any venue tries very hard for this to be the case.

From what’s been said, JiveBug->Ceroc had more changes than just a teacher re-structuring – putting the changes in attendance/demographics down to just one factor is rather narrow-minded IMHO.

—relevant—
Can someone tell me what the difference is between an advanced class and a workshop? (besides numbers and more focused teacher attention)
Is the “Advanced class” sort of a stage in-between and intermediate class and a workshop? Is it better a weekly thing, or a monthly thing?

[RobC]

Can someone tell me what the difference is between an advanced class and a workshop? (besides numbers and more focused teacher attention)
Is the “Advanced class” sort of a stage in-between and intermediate class and a workshop? Is it better a weekly thing, or a monthly thing?

Do you mean the difference between an advanced class and an Advanced workshop ? There are many types of workshops - Ceroc themselves run a number of beginners / intermediate workshops around the country.

Workshops, IMHO, tend to be longer running (several hours) with smaller numbers, allowing a more one-on-one approach to the teaching style, where as a class is usually less than an hour long with the teacher on a stage, often >20m away from the pupils at the back of the class.

[Gadget]

I meant in terms of the subject matter - most (/all) workshops I've been to have not been designated as "advanced" or "intermediate": they are just workshops.

I was asking to try and get an idea if you would get more out of attending an "advanced class" or a "workshop" ?

[TheTramp]

I agree that I was a bit single-minded about saying that the past bears no relevance to the present/future: To use Tramp’s parallel; if Lorna stopped teaching in Aberdeen, I would be curious as to the reason behind it (unless she was getting progressively bigger in the weeks leading up to the absence ) but I can’t think on any scenario that would affect my dancing, attendance, or lack there-of. Even if I felt that the reasoning behind the decision was bias, flawed, incorrect, dubious or outrageous. As with Gus’s thread – dance politics exist, but I don’t think they should affect my dancing, and I think that any organiser of any venue tries very hard for this to be the case.

It may not affect you Gadget. But I'm betting that if someone bought out Franck, and starting running the classes is Aberdeen, and told Lorna that she wouldn't be teaching anymore, then there would be people who would question that decision, and may well decide not to go to the venues, in a show of support for Lorna. Fortunately this scenario isn't going to happen. But it would definitely have a negative effect with some people. You may choose not to believe me, but I've seen it happen - and not just with Fleet.

Trampy

[Andy McGregor]

{skip to the (--relevant--) bit to avoid rant }
I went back to re-read Andy's post to make sure that I wasn't being completely unfair: the post is littered with assumptions, presumptions and guesses that are used to draw conclusions or point the reader to a specific conclusion - if that's not tabloid gossip, then what is?

I read back through that post too. There was a bit where I said 'my guess is' but that was a figure of speech as I knew what I was saying is true. Other than that I'm at a loss to find 'assumptions and presumptions'.

We need to settle this like gentlemen.

Gadget, my seconds have posted my message here.

[Gus]

So where do "we" go for advanced stuff?

Interesting question. Lots of MJ and Ceroc clubs advertise 'advanced' classes ... but most seem to concentrate on getting the punters to do complex moves .... very little try to focus on real style. Why? Because the majority of punters EXPECT that .... and complain if you try teaching them how to dance instead. Once more teachers have to compromise their teaching ideals beacuse of commercial reality

[Gadget]

...and may well decide not to go to the venues, in a show of support for Lorna. Fortunately this scenario isn't going to happen. But it would definitely have a negative effect with some people. You may choose not to believe me, but I've seen it happen - and not just with Fleet.

I'm not disputing that it does happen - but I have always wondered how not attending is a show of support?
I would agree if those people went to another venue that teacher was now (forced to?) teach at - that is showing support. If the primary reason you attended the venue was because you liked that teacher, then by their absence, you may well choose another venue - better floor, different music, ... eliminate the "teaching" factor and there are a plethora of other reasons to choose club A over club B. Why let politics get in the way of having a good time?

It seems to me ...I can not imagine... My guess is ...Let's assume ...Let's consider this further.. it seems that ...The only thing I can think of is ... possibly explain...

assumptions and presumptions?

[Martin]

I read back through that post too. There was a bit where I said 'my guess is' but that was a figure of speech as I knew what I was saying is true. Other than that I'm at a loss to find 'assumptions and presumptions'.

We need to settle this like gentlemen.

Gadget, my seconds have posted my message here.

Sabre it is then - look, really fun to read posts BUT PLEASE make sure you know a BIT about the subject

(not you Andy)


Forum is fun - inane comments from elsewhere PLEASE...
Marty

[Andy McGregor]

assumptions and presumptions?

Touche

[Andy McGregor]

Sabre it is then

Not sure yet: I'm still waiting for Gadget to confirm. The difference is that sabre will look more spectacular and is much louder

..but slightly more painful for the loser

[Martin]

Interesting question. Lots of MJ and Ceroc clubs advertise 'advanced' classes ... but most seem to concentrate on getting the punters to do complex moves .... very little try to focus on real style. Why? Because the majority of punters EXPECT that .... and complain if you try teaching them how to dance instead. Once more teachers have to compromise their teaching ideals beacuse of commercial reality

So what is advanced? maybe you have not seen it "up north"

IMHO travel to Hipsters, not about complex, more about style and interpretation....

I did teach at Hipsters at Nigels request, so I pulled out what I thought was advanced for the UK market and Janet partnered me

Don't knock it til you done it...

IMHO

[spindr]

For me an advanced class is one that helps my dancing.
Improver's / intermediate classes only help me dancing Modern Jive.

Strangely, some teachers' beginner classes can be regarded as advanced in this respect -- getting that Zen feeling, now!

Oh I guess I should be somewhat concrete:

• floor craft
• frame
• lead and follow
• style / musicality
• poise / elegance
• balance / frame
• expanding movement vocabulary

SpinDr.

[Andy McGregor]

Strangely, some teachers' beginner classes can be regarded as advanced in this respect -- getting that Zen feeling, now!

Pull up a cushion