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Thread: The Hipsters formula - Recipe for a successful club?

  1. #1
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Amir's (advanced?) musicality class last night was one of the best that I have EVER attended ..

    - excellent techniques (eg signalling breaks half a beat ahead, to give the lady time to react)

    - fascinating new ideas (eg putting breaks in your dancing at times other than breaks in the music / dancing through the breaks in the music - apparently this is all the rage at USA swing competitions)

    - challenging music (eg double bass only jazz / syncopated rhythms)

    Not surprising those 4 beginners decided to give up and get a refund after 40 mins!

  2. #2

    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter
    Amir's (advanced?) musicality class last night was one of the best that I have EVER attended ..

    - excellent techniques (eg signalling breaks half a beat ahead, to give the lady time to react)

    - fascinating new ideas (eg putting breaks in your dancing at times other than breaks in the music / dancing through the breaks in the music - apparently this is all the rage at USA swing competitions)

    - challenging music (eg double bass only jazz / syncopated rhythms)

    Not surprising those 4 beginners decided to give up and get a refund after 40 mins!
    I thought the wednesday Hipsters was to attract new dancers not scare them off
    Surley Tuesday is the advanced class
    If hipsters Tues and Wed is now aimed at the 'top' dancers and unsuitable for the beginners has it become an elitest club, depending on other venues such as Ceroc to recruit new dancers, ready fore hipsters to cream them off.
    I am not dishing Hipsters,cos they are providing a level of dancing that ceroc are not providing (I guess) - but not adding to the dance pool, is this right?

    So is Hipsters correct in (what appears to be) targeting the 'better dancer' and effectivle excluding beginners from their 'elite' club
    Is Ceroc wrong in not providing this level of dance teaching (and if Ceroc do provide real advanced classes then Hipsters market their product better cos we all know about it)

    Would it not be better for amir to teach on Tuesdays (as he used to) and Roger to teach, Wednesdays, Roger is the Wednesday DJ, he is one of the most respected and experienced teachers on the MJ circuit and could be more beginner friendly

    Must be enough there for a heated debate and Ideas, and I know the Hipsters team read the forum so no nrrd to be polite
    LL (in a controversial mood)

  3. #3
    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    I am not dishing Hipsters,cos they are providing a level of dancing that ceroc are not providing (I guess) - but not adding to the dance pool, is this right?
    Hmmm, dishing == dissing?? Get down wid' da kidz Pete, it's well wick'?

    Perhaps you could view Hipsters as adding to the MJ dance pool, by keeping certain dancers interested in MJ -- rather than having them leave for more exotic and technical dances like Salsa, AT, WCS, etc. And of course showing intermediates that there's more room to grow. And of course encouraging the use of "non-classic" MJ music -- unlike other venues -- hey, I can be controversial too!!

    SpinDr.

  4. #4

    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr
    Perhaps you could view Hipsters as adding to the MJ dance pool, by keeping certain dancers interested in MJ
    snip
    . And of course encouraging the use of "non-classic" MJ music -- unlike other venues -- hey, I can be controversial too!!

    SpinDr.
    errr I dont think Hipsters is the only venue that expands the music - I play at least two NEW unheard MJ SUITABLE tracks at my venues EVERY week then there are many DJ's playing great new music,
    Re your other comments - learn to dance at Ceroc and THEN go to Hipsters
    Ok if it works, but as they have Lindy on a Tuesday, why not WCS + MJ on a Wednesday

  5. #5
    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    errr I dont think Hipsters is the only venue that expands the music - I play at least two NEW unheard MJ SUITABLE tracks at my venues EVERY week then there are many DJ's playing great new music,
    Thought you might bite (the pedant in me is wondering how do DJs know an unheard track is MJ suitable tho').

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    Re your other comments - learn to dance at Ceroc and THEN go to Hipsters. Ok if it works, but as they have Lindy on a Tuesday, why not WCS + MJ on a Wednesday
    Learn to dance wherever, keep enjoying and progressing wherever -- Hipsters is one option -- there are others. As for WCS + MJ on a Wednesday sounds great to me, tho' perhaps Boogie Woogie + MJ would be even more fun!

    SpinDr.

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter
    - signalling breaks half a beat ahead, to give the lady time to react
    - putting breaks in your dancing at times other than breaks in the music / dancing through the breaks in the music - apparently this is all the rage at USA swing competitions
    - double bass only jazz / syncopated rhythms
    Of course Franck was organinsing workshops teaching this sort of thing last year...

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr
    (the pedant in me is wondering how do DJs know an unheard track is MJ suitable tho').
    Probably because all the good DJs are also dancers themselves...(Lounge Lizard, Emma, Dan Hudson, Roger Chin, Steve Lampert...to name a few
    )....... I know that I always try dancing to a new track before unleashing it on to the punters.I've been to nights where the DJ isn't a modern Jiver, and they sem to play more tracks that are hard to MJ to IMHO.

  8. #8
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    I thought the wednesday Hipsters was to attract new dancers not scare them off
    Surely Tuesday is the advanced class
    Not any more. When Viktor left there were a few weeks of limbo, then Amir moved to Weds and Roger took over the 8pm spot on Tues.

    I think they're quite brave taking the explicit 'we don't cater for beginners' tack - and there's been a lot of debate about that - but at the end of the day, they've made the decision and implemented it without being wishy-washy about it.

    And the numbers in Amir's classes are definitely justifying the decision. Given that it's an hour and three quarters of solid Amir, with no real break, I think the fact that the numbers are higher than they were when Viktor was teaching on Wednesdays must count for something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    If hipsters Tues and Wed is now aimed at the 'top' dancers and unsuitable for the beginners has it become an elitest club, depending on other venues such as Ceroc to recruit new dancers, ready fore hipsters to cream them off.
    It's not so much that Wednesday is aimed at top dancers - many of the people in Amir's classes are not advanced yet by any means - it's that it's aimed at people who choose to undertake longer term learning - technique, style, and musicality, rather than a quick fix of four moves.

    It's not elitist at all. Amir is incredibly patient, and teaches it all in a way that allows even people with relatively little experience to learn a little at a time - so pretty well anyone would benefit. The beginners last night that left after 40 minutes were very new indeed. A few months experience elsewhere would probably be beneficial first for people not prepared to throw themselves in at the deep end.

    Chris

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    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidB
    Of course Franck was organinsing workshops teaching this sort of thing last year...
    Workshops, sure.

    But would you not say it's unusual to have a weekly class at this level?

    Chris

  10. #10

    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    And the numbers in Amir's classes are definitely justifying the decision. Given that it's an hour and three quarters of solid Amir, with no real break, I think the fact that the numbers are higher than they were when Viktor was teaching on Wednesdays must count for something.


    It's not so much that Wednesday is aimed at top dancers - many of the people in Amir's classes are not advanced yet by any means - it's that it's aimed at people who choose to undertake longer term learning - technique, style, and musicality, rather than a quick fix of four moves.
    Chris
    so what are the numbers 50 - 100 - 150- 200? (Hipsters is a 200+ capacity venue)
    Would it be something that others should adopt or given the fact that it is london based in probably the most famous MJ venue in the UK with arguably the top uk teacher are the numbers low in comparison to other venues, eg fleet, dorking. ashtons, woking etc. which I understand all get in excess of 100.
    Still find it strange that any dance organisation completly ignores the 'new' dancer, but if the approach is quality not quantity they should be applauded

    Oh and spindr - how do DJ's know if a track is suitable for MJ.....that's what we are paid for, I like to think I can spot a good MJ track on first listen (some take two or three but seldom more)....the problem is having the time to play them all.

  11. #11
    Registered User Zebra Woman's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    I've only done a couple of Amir's classes at Hipsters (because I dance locally or not at all during the week) but would agree that he is teaching things that aren't taught on a normal ceroc night, not in my area anyway. His classes were inspiring, and hard work physically and mentally, and he almost gives you homework too!!

    I like to feel I'm getting better, but I honestly haven't improved much over the last couple of years. I couldn't see the way forward for me. Now I can see for miles. I feel like a beginner again... I can see a lot of dancing in the kitchen is in order, standing on one leg when no-one is looking, doing rondes, naughty hands, nice hands.....and then I can dance with the door.

    I think beginners who've had 6 weeks of ceroc would benefit enormously from his teaching, what a foundation they would have.

    It is very sad that the good dancers travel so far and don't dance locally, I miss them. But it's market forces, and if they didn't go to Hipsters they'd maybe drift off to salsa or lindy, and then we could lose them for good. Salsa usually teaches four levels, very different kettle of fish but maybe Amir is providing the level 3 that ceroc is lacking.

    I think his classes would be like a level 5 for salsa dancers. He's like a multi-purpose icing for all cakes IMHO.

  12. #12
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    so what are the numbers 50 - 100 - 150- 200? (Hipsters is a 200+ capacity venue)
    Well they vary during the night - quite a few turn up for the freestyle as they do anywhere. Less than 100 I suppose, but still more in the classes than before all the big changes.

    But as you say, it's not just about numbers - and there is undoubtedly a place for teaching that focuses on quality and detail rather than ensuring that the numbers remain high (not that there's anything wrong with that approach either).

    Much of what Amir teaches would be very difficult if there were 150 in the room.

    Chris
    Last edited by ChrisA; 1st-July-2004 at 05:31 PM.

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    Omnipotent Moderatrix (LMC)
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Why did Viktor leave?

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    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Emma
    Why did Viktor leave?
    I don't know. When I asked him he was talking in terms of it being time for a change.

    But I was always amazed that the attendance wasn't higher - a teacher of Viktor's stature, interesting classes, beautifully taught, a terrific London venue, good music, open till 11...

    ... it just never took off particularly for some reason. I was very disappointed to see him go, but had I been in his position I might well have done the same thing.

    Chris

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Would be a shame if he started making more trips up North

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Would be a shame if he started making more trips up North

  17. #17

    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr
    Perhaps you could view Hipsters as ....
    snip... encouraging the use of "non-classic" MJ music -- unlike other venues SpinDr.
    I do not dance in London but I thought venues such as the Casbah or Ashtons were as good (if not better) for Music than Hipsters.

    What is the best London Venue for Music...is it hipsters or are Ceroc better

    Does Amir leave all other teachers standing in his shadows
    I remember at Southport he taught A good class to 200+ dancers, then Mikey had the next class, and was joined byabout 700 who took part in Mikeys class
    LL

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    Does Amir leave all other teachers standing in his shadows
    I remember at Southport he taught A good class to 200+ dancers, then Mikey had the next class, and was joined byabout 700 who took part in Mikeys class
    LL
    Mikey IMHO is as much an superb entertainer as a teacher and his class at Southport was excellent fun and so well recieved by the audience.
    It was also well advertised by the compere.
    He teaches cheeky lessons, cheeky moves and I for one really enjoy his style.

    Amir IMHO is a primararily an excellent dancer who teaches technically all aspects dance really brilliantly, who can also be entertaining, but entertainment is not necessarily his primary function.

    Most teachers teach 4 moves in an hour and teach them very well.

    Amir took nearly an hour covering 2 moves. The difficulty level was very high and the technical advice was superb.

    Both have there place in MJ and both add to the riches of skills we all seek to have.

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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by under par
    Mikey IMHO is as much an superb entertainer as a teacher and his class at Southport was excellent fun and so well recieved by the audience.
    It was also well advertised by the compere.
    He teaches cheeky lessons, cheeky moves and I for one really enjoy his style.

    Amir IMHO is a primararily an excellent dancer who teaches technically all aspects dance really brilliantly, who can also be entertaining, but entertainment is not necessarily his primary function.

    Most teachers teach 4 moves in an hour and teach them very well.

    Amir took nearly an hour covering 2 moves. The difficulty level was very high and the technical advice was superb.

    Both have there place in MJ and both add to the riches of skills we all seek to have.
    If only London was nearer to Bristol


    Elaine

  20. #20
    Registered User Zebra Woman's Avatar
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    Re: NEW!! Hipsters on Wednesdays

    Quote Originally Posted by under par
    Mikey IMHO is as much an superb entertainer as a teacher and his class at Southport was excellent fun and so well recieved by the audience.
    It was also well advertised by the compere.
    He teaches cheeky lessons, cheeky moves and I for one really enjoy his style.

    Amir IMHO is a primararily an excellent dancer who teaches technically all aspects dance really brilliantly, who can also be entertaining, but entertainment is not necessarily his primary function.

    Both have there place in MJ and both add to the riches of skills we all seek to have.

    Hey Under Par, you're so diplomatic.

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