Why hasn't Ceroc taken over the World??

[Gus]

Daft thought. Most people on this forum, and many of our friends, think that MJ is a very important and enjoyable past-time. It has obvious benefits and is something that any right minded person would get addicted to .... so why dont't they?

With all the improvements going on, all the publiciity and (apprently) all these new clubs openning up ... why is there only about a 5% yaer on year increase in numbers? Is it that the rest of the population really dont know what they are missing or are we just a sad deluded minority?

[Emma]

Is it that the rest of the population really dont know what they are missing or are we just a sad deluded minority?

Yes

[philsmove]

It has obvious benefits and is something that any right minded person would get addicted to .... so why dont't they?

most right minded people do get addicted

BUT

sadly there are very few right minded people

[TheTramp]

Hasn't it??

Seems to have taken over my world

Trampy

[Andy McGregor]

Hasn't it??

Seems to have taken over my world

Trampy

There's a world? Sorry, I must have been out dancing when the briefing about that was done

[Chicklet]

.... so why dont't they?

With all the improvements going on, all the publiciity...

Publicity????
I know I'm not the most observant of people but have never seen anything other than that available at a dance event, smacking of preaching to the converted. (NB, got a fairly good idea WHY )

If IIIIIIII was in charge and IF I wanted to take over the world I would do a series of telly ads

1) under30s in a class
2) 30 - 50s in a class
3) over 50s in a class
4) party night showing all together
5) glitzy competition footage.

and put particular ones on during particular programmes.

C

[Franck]

Publicity????
I know I'm not the most observant of people but have never seen anything other than that available at a dance event, smacking of preaching to the converted. (NB, got a fairly good idea WHY )

then maybe you are less observant than you thought...

We advertise a lot more than other (similar) activities, we have regular adverts in national papers and we try to get free features as often as possible with press releases etc... (the latest one was in the Sunday times and the next one will soon appear in the Sunday Post).
We advertise regularly in the Big Issue, the List magazine and other relevant publications.
We have adverts in the Yellow pages (and that's expensive )
The web is now a formidable medium for promoting classes, and Ceroc Scotland is very well placed in all relevant searches...
We busk semi-regularly in the streets of Scottish cities and teach at large corporate events / charity events etc...

All of the above already costs considerable amounts of money! I would love to be able to advertise on television, but the costs involved are astronomical, before you even consider the cost of producing a decent promotional film

As far as taking over the world is concerned, I would be happy to just take over Scotland

Finally, there aren't enough classes across the country and it seems most modern jive promoters are more interested in opening nights in 'existing' successful markets than to venture out and create a new market in a new city / town which is a shame because despite the initial cost and hard work, the rewards are fantastic...

[Chicklet]

Franck my friend we are in complete agreement!!
I notice ads on buses and billboards and not much else.
Not a regular (personal) newspaper buyer because I get my boring old FT in the office.
And I bow to your far superior knowledge of people's Internet habits. I hardly use it (other than for here) .

The advertising I'm thinking of is to catch the eye of people who have no idea such an organisation exists and make them go hmmm what's that? - if someone was to use a search engine to ask "what can I do tonight in Glasgow" for example, would we pop up (yes I know it's Friday and probably not but you know what I mean!!) OR would more specific key words need to be used?

And interesting, it it never even occurred to me that TV ads would be something funded by individual franchise holders, my head always had it as a centralised thing with the cost shared far more - and yes I do know how much it is and it's a pipe dream, and it'll never happen because there's NO WAY there will be agreement on what music to use for a start!!

[Franck]

Billboards / buses etc... are great if you have an instantly recognizable brand / product, Ceroc isn't at the moment (and yes, it is a chicken & egg thing).
When it comes to web search engines, it is more of an art than a science. Having the forum makes a difference as I expect if someone types 'what can I do tonight in Glasgow' they will probably come upon your (and mine now) post

TV advertising would be funded centrally, but all central funds come from individual franchisees... no secret money stashed anywhere unfortunately.
TV advertising is regularly considered, and we are looking at a new way of promoting Ceroc at the moment, which should be available shortly...

Sorry if I seemed a bit abrupt, but I keep getting accused of not advertising enough, not promoting enough etc... and while I know that I could always do more, a huge chunk of budget and time is already spent on promoting / expanding the Ceroc world!

[Gus]

..........and create a new market in a new city / town which is a shame because despite the initial cost and hard work, the rewards are fantastic...

SINCE WHEN??? Based on no facts whatsoever ( ), just observation and personal experience, at least as many new clubs fail as make it ... and most dont break the magic 100 mark.

..........Finally, there aren't enough classes across the country and it seems most modern jive promoters are more interested in opening nights in 'existing' successful markets than to venture out..

Absolutely agree. Its a common problem of money grabbing or ego making. We havn't learnt the lessons of the past ... look what happened to Brighton. In the N West, things aren't so bad. A number of new clubs openning up but all seem to be trying to pull in a new crowd and seem to be far enough away from existing venues. Mind you, still waiting for a good Manchester City centre based club.

[TheTramp]

Just tried 'Dance Classes Glasgow' in Google. And the 2nd, 3rd and 4th hits were all about Ceroc

Trampy

[Franck]

SINCE WHEN??? Based on no facts whatsoever ( ), just observation and personal experience, at least as many new clubs fail as make it ... and most dont break the magic 100 mark.

Based on my own experience, I have only ever closed one night (excluding venue moves / changes of night), and even then, I feel that if I had kept it open, it would be successful today.

Many venues are opened for the reasons you quoted above (ego making / money grabbing) and this is the main reason they fail (apart from cow-boy operations). If the aim is to really get more people dancing, there is no reason why a venue won't (eventually) work.
All it takes is patience and enthusiasm!

[Gus]

If the aim is to really get more people dancing, there is no reason why a venue won't (eventually) work.
All it takes is patience and enthusiasm!

Sorry ... disagree ... some areas just dont work. Stoke has seen off 3 franchisees and 5 venues. The spendid Congleton Town hall has also seen the demise of three MJ clubs. I think Derby has defeated even the legendary Phil Roberts, and I think he's tried a number of times in Coventry to no avail.

If you are a full time Franchisee (I think there are only about 6 franchisees in that lucky position) then you have both more time and a greater incentive. If, however, you have a day job, then a major factor is simply having the time ... especially when things get tough!

[Lory]

I agree with Chicklet, I think the market will never expand significantly whilst still preaching to the converted, you just get the same Jivers, going to new venues and one persons success, is another persons failure!

This is interesting to me, as for my daughters A'level media project, she did a whole assignment based on this very subject. Her brief was to promote 'something' in the media industry, that lot's of people do and enjoy but's very under represented in the general media. Some of her friends did theirs on tattooing and body art, some on Urban freeflow (yes, I'd never heard of that either ) and Holly did hers on MJ.

She found it's like a hidden world, once inside there's an endless supply of information and advertising but it never seems to reach the outside world!

We all seem to stumble on it from word of mouth, maybe a few through busks but never because of positive articles written in magazines or local newspapers!

We need to get to the people who it never occured to, to take up dancing before!

I look in the yellow pages when I already know what I want to look for. I use search engines on the Internet to access information about subjects I already want to know about! Yes, the information is there and that's great but it's not reaching the right people!

Now, if we could only get Beckam to bring a 'bit on the side' to one of our evenings, we might get a few media turn up! What do you think?

[spindr]

Why hasn't Ceroc taken over the World??

Maybe it's because there aren't any franchises for sale?

SpinDr.

[Sheepman]

I look in the yellow pages when I already know what I want to look for. I use search engines on the Internet to access information about subjects I already want to know about! Yes, the information is there and that's great but it's not reaching the right people!

I can't imagine looking in the yellow pages, or searching on the interenet to find out what's on (apart from checking Lynda's list/dance websites). But then we already know about dancing, so we're not "normal."

I think in marketing speak it is all about "triggers." What is it that persuades you to try something new? For me it was seeing other dancers (OK they were professionals) regularly dancing to live music I loved. Because dancing is about a combination of the senses, surely the most frequent trigger has to be seeing people doing it and enjoying it. Should we all be out there busking regularly?

Greg

[SwingSwingSwing]

Based on my own experience, I have only ever closed one night (excluding venue moves / changes of night), and even then, I feel that if I had kept it open, it would be successful today.

Shurely shome mishtake, Franck

Did you not close Falkirk twice (once at the Church, once at the Martell) and Livingston?

SwingSwingSwing

[Gus]

We all seem to stumble on it from word of mouth, maybe a few through busks but never because of positive articles written in magazines or local newspapers!

We need to get to the people who it never occured to, to take up dancing before!

OK ... challenge for you ... find a way pf describing MJ in two sentences that both reflects the reality but also "sells the sizzle" ... not easy is it? A lot of the terms we use are real "turn offs" to the active section of society ... "jive", "partner dance", "village halls" all have negative connotations. I have seem some very good marketing flyers ... but they have usualy been for Salsa. to be honest, I think the best marketing I've seen has been based on doing a "me-too" link with Salsa ... and trying to ignore the Jive aspect.

A lot of very experienced business people have tried to promote MJ. MBAs, marketing consultants have all joined the fight ... and to a large extent failed. So ... who has got that 'killer idea' thats going to make the breakthrough ... or will we still have to rely on slowy but slowly getting noticed through yellow pages, newspaper paragraphs and busks?

[Gadget]

Should we all be out there busking regularly?

I agree with the sentiment, but I think that busking is a "shotgun" approach - you're relying in at least some people walking by that will like it and take up an interest.
I think you need a more targeted appropach:
Create a few "Hit Squads" of about six people, dress them in Ceroc T-shirts, and send them out dancing to local night-clubs. Or live music events. Or road-show's. Make sure that you know when big council events are on, and see about getting a squad there. Poss also give them a few business cards that have the local classes on the back to give to folk who ask about it.

All you need is the t-shirt and to spark some curiosity - then all the existing advertising and media comes into play: people will look and the information is there for them to find.

[Franck]

Shurely shome mishtake, Franck

Did you not close Falkirk twice (once at the Church, once at the Martell) and Livingston?

No mistake, the only venue / town I closed was Falkirk (still regretting it and might open again).
I moved from the church hall to the Martell, and then had to close it as the pressures of keeping existing night (Edinburgh and Glasgow) combined with the new (loss making) nights: Aberdeen and Dundee were too great to sustain.

Livingston was opened and closed by Scot.