Religious Beliefs

[Dreadful Scathe]

Wow, I'm quite surprised at the large proportion of believers according to the poll - 14 to 21. I wonder if that's representative of society as a whole, or whether partner/MJ dancing attracts more religious types? (or is that just Morris dancing?)
Rachel

14 isnt a large proportion really - I would have expected it to be slightly higher - here are some estimates about religion based on population .....

		 The World   England & Wales	
Christianity: 		33%		71.6%	
Islam: 			22%		2.7%	
Hinduism: 		15%		1.0%	
Nonreligious: 	         14%		15.5%

although they do count JEDI as nonreligious remember

[Rachel]

14 isnt a large proportion really - I would have expected it to be slightly higher - here are some estimates about religion based on population .....

		 The World   England & Wales	
Christianity: 		33%		71.6%	
Islam: 			22%		2.7%	
Hinduism: 		15%		1.0%	
Nonreligious: 	         14%		15.5%

although they do count JEDI as nonreligious remember

Gosh, and I thought we were far more heathen in this country. What a great educational tool this forum is!

[TheTramp]

14 isnt a large proportion really - I would have expected it to be slightly higher - here are some estimates about religion based on population .....

		 The World   England & Wales	
Christianity: 		33%		71.6%	
Islam: 			22%		2.7%	
Hinduism: 		15%		1.0%	
Nonreligious: 	         14%		15.5%

Ummm. 71.6% of people in England & Wales are Christian?!?

Is that why the churches are so empty??

Where did those figures come from? Quite frankly, they look totally ridiculous to me.... How many of the 71.6% go to church (or do whatever practising religious people do) more often than weddings and funerals??.

I'd have said that this poll, where 2/5 (ie. 40%) of people either think that there is a god, or are sure that there is a god (although, it doesn't actually say WHICH god) and 60% of people would be "Nonreligious" is a far closer figure. In fact, like Rachel, I'm surprised that it's as high as 40% of people who believe that there is a god.

Of course, only 20% of the people here are sure that there is a god, and the other 20% are presumably just hoping that there is one.

Trampy

[Dreadful Scathe]

Gosh, and I thought we were far more heathen in this country. What a great educational tool this forum is!

found this site for all of Britain

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=293

apparantly only 67% of Scots are religious compared to 77% of English and Welsh.

I like this quote "[non-religious] This category included agnostics, atheists, heathens and those who wrote Jedi Knight."

[Dreadful Scathe]

Ummm. 71.6% of people in England & Wales are Christian?!?

You dont need to go to church to think you're a christian For some denominations the time would be better spent going round peoples doors or shouting at passers by in the street


I would be inclined to agree with you though, people may say they are christian simply because they grew up as such but they may not believe in anything. This poll was about belief..and...er..yeah it probably does sound a bit high based on my own experience at least, but I don't bring this up in every conversation thus i would have expected maybe 50/50 between belief non-belief.

[Lynn]

Am I the only one that is getting very bored with the "you're not stating a point of view, just saying that what you say is right" kind of argument. When I read Barry's post, I took it as his point of view, mildly amusing, well reasoned, and was hoping to read some interesting counter arguments. I think in too many cases in too many threads, arguments break down because people are affronted at the way others express their "points of view.".

(And yes, I know this post isn't helping to get away from that, but is there any chance that we now return to the main subject . . . )

Greg

Of course I knew it was his point of view, and took it as such. But I commented on how it came across as it was directly relevant to the subject of the thread - the 'I am right and you are wrong if you believe something else' attitude is one thing that puts many people off religion.

[TheTramp]

attitude is one thing that puts many people off religion.

Or in this case, lack of religion!!

Trampy

[Andy McGregor]

Am I the only one that is getting very bored with the "you're not stating a point of view, just saying that what you say is right" kind of argument. When I read Barry's post, I took it as his point of view, mildly amusing, well reasoned, and was hoping to read some interesting counter arguments. I think in too many cases in too many threads, arguments break down because people are affronted at the way others express their "points of view.".

I've been watching this debate and feel that I've got nothing in particular to contribute, so I've not contributed. But, like Sheepman, I thought that Barry's post was his point of view: it is very obviously so. I think that it's not necessary to say "this is just my point of view" to qualify each point of view. I'm only really posting this in the role of referee rather than sticking my neck out and debating religious beliefs - I know I don't know enough to add to the debate.

I've noticed this phenomenon in political debate. People don't agree with the point of view of Debator A: but for Debator B, C, D & E to state a counter argument and get into a debate about the counter argument might result in B-E having their argument proved wrong or flawed. The answer is to pick on the way A framed their point of view or even prove that A has been wrong in the past - and I think this is the wrong answer and I've been stuck in many debates, late into the night, where this navel gazing has diverted the discussion - I've even been in long debates where the grammar of a particular item was discussed for ages rather than it's content.

I'm with Sheepy, let the debate continue on-topic rather than the debate about how the debate is being debated.

p.s. Yes, I know, this whole post is about how the debate is being debated - but I hope it brings that particular debate to an end

[Lynn]

apparantly only 67% of Scots are religious compared to 77% of English and Welsh.

86% for Northern Ireland. Of course here which religious tradition you come from is seen as being very important (affecting education, politics, cultures and employment). But religious affiliation in those statistics means just that - it doesn't mean church goer (though % of church goers would also be higher for NI). Western society is extremely secular. Especially when compared to say African society where religion shapes worldview much more strongly.

[TheTramp]

I'm with Sheepy, let the debate continue on-topic rather than the debate about how the debate is being debated.

Sorry Andy, while I agree that Barry is quite entitled to having his opinion, comments like:

Let's face it, religion is the final fairy story.

The other great fairy story, the nativity, the passion, the virgin birth, the miracles, the ascension, transubstantiation, the doctrine of the trinity - this balloon is left unpunctured.

So, to sum up: religion is like a comfort blanket, that the human race cannot let go of. For those of you who are offended, I would say this: it's one of our remaining taboos.

don't really add to the debate. As said, Barry is entitled to his opinion, but if I was a committed Christian, I would find comments like this about my faith to be offensive, and other people have (IMO justifiably) been called patronising *people* for making comments of this type previously.

Back to the debate

Trampy

[Lynn]

I've been watching this debate and feel that I've got nothing in particular to contribute, so I've not contributed. But, like Sheepman, I thought that Barry's post was his point of view: it is very obviously so. I think that it's not necessary to say "this is just my point of view" to qualify each point of view.

I think you missed my point!!!

[Lory]

I would be inclined to agree with you though, people may say they are christian simply because they grew up as such but they may not believe in anything.

For years I filled out forms, Religion = C of E, only because my Mum told me that's what I should tick, I never even questioned it!
I am an Athiest but probably somewhere, on some official statistic, I will show up as Christian!

[Dance Demon]

Hmmm........just a wee side thought.........but isn't it funny how lots of people who claim to be non believers suddenly look for a supreme being ( whatever name you want to give him/her) to help them when they are in severe difficulty or life threatening situations.......almost like saying....well I'm not sure if there is a God or not, but just in case there is I'd better say a wee prayer, or else if I snuff it i might not get into Heaven or wherever you go .......Similar situation to the people who say " I don't believe in trade Unions"...but can't wait to fill in the form if they are in trouble or face a discipline.....maybe these sort of people only subscribe to something when there is something in it for them.......rather than thinking about how their subscription can help others....

[TheTramp]

S'okie. I don't believe in trade unions either

(Is there one for Ceroc DJs??)

Trampy

[CJ]

I like this quote "[non-religious] This category included agnostics, atheists, heathens and those who wrote Jedi Knight."

I am a Jedi.

Unfortunately, not made it to status of knight, yet...

However, is Jedi a religion or belief system?

[Dance Demon]

S'okie. I don't believe in trade unions either

(Is there one for Ceroc DJs??)

Trampy

Why d'ya ask Trampy...has someone threatened to sack you..

[TheTramp]

Why d'ya ask Trampy...has someone threatened to sack you..

Not yet!!



Trampy

[Franck]

Why d'ya ask Trampy...has someone threatened to sack you..

don't tempt me

Only kidding Trampy, but don't go slagging Apple again!

[Rachel]

.......Similar situation to the people who say " I don't believe in trade Unions"...but can't wait to fill in the form if they are in trouble or face a discipline.....

Tell me about it!!! I'm the union rep at work here - see this all the time!
Rachel

[TheTramp]

don't tempt me

Only kidding Trampy, but don't go slagging Apple again!

Apple are wonderful. Fantastic. Best thing ever

Full of fruity goodness....

Trampy