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Thread: Teaching Criteria

  1. #1
    Registered User Gareth's Avatar
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    Teaching Criteria

    I was wondering what should the definitions of a "Teacher" be in relation to competitions?.

    It has been mentioned on this Forum that the rules for C2D Blackpool had a definition. I have been unable to find this.

    I emailed BritRoc for a definition, but they are yet to reply.

    Should there be a definitive answer which covers all the major competitions.

    Personally, I have never taught for Ceroc. I am not qualified. I have never been paid. I have only taught at one venue, on an irregular basis.

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    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching Criteria

    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth
    It has been mentioned on this Forum that the rules for C2D Blackpool had a definition. I have been unable to find this.
    It was defined on the '04 application form. If it's not still available on the C2D web site PM me - I have a copy of the downloaded file.

    The "General rules" section said this... the relevant bit is near the bottom.

    HTH, Chris


    General Rules
    Applicable to all categories unless otherwise stated.
    Music will be chosen by the organisers.
    A couple will consist of any combination M/F, M/M or F/F.
    Points will be awarded for Style , Presentation, Musical Interpretation and Dress.
    Air steps will not be allowed; ie one foot (of the person being lead) must stay below the waist of their partner.
    70% of dancing must be recognisable as Modern Jive.
    All sections are limited by a min/max number of entrants.
    If a section is under/ over subscribed a full refund for that section will be given.
    All competitors are free to enter as many sections as desired/ eligible for, energy permitting!
    A definite lead and follow should be clearly demonstrated.
    Definition of a teacher – anyone who teaches/ or has taught in the last two years, with payment any form of jive orientated dance.
    The Judges decisions are final.
    Chance2Dance may change any part of the competition or weekend package without prior warning, any changes will be advised via our website or on the day.

  3. #3
    Registered User Gareth's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching Criteria

    Thanks ChrisA,

    Definition of a teacher – anyone who teaches/ or has taught in the last two years, with payment any form of jive orientated dance.
    When I queried this earlier this year I was told that I was a teacher and as such entered the Advanced section.

    I have never been paid. So as long as nothing happens to change this, I would therefore be eligible to enter Blackpool as an intermediate next year?

    I hope this applies to Britroc too?

    Gareth

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    Payment is irrelevant

    In my opinion, whether you get paid to teach or not is irrelevant. If you don't receive cash payment, I'm sure that you receive payment in kind, ie. you get in to the venue for free.

    The spirit of the 'beginners' category (whatever the competition organisers call it - most now seem to have settled for calling it Intermediates) is to give couples new to competing a chance to enter a competition without having to feel intimidated by having to dance along side people who have taught them.

    If you consider yourself good enough to stand up in front of a group of other dancers and teach them a routine you have choreographed (as opposed to taxi dancers helping beginners through a repeat of someone else's routine) then you are a teacher and should not be entering the 'beginners' category at any competition.

    Now, the advanced category at Ceroc/LeRoc/Britroc ..... that's a different matter. Anyone care to explain why teachers should be excluded from these categories and forced to enter the Open (which costs more to enter at Bristol/Britroc as well )?

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    Re: Payment is irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    Now, the advanced category at Ceroc/LeRoc/Britroc ..... that's a different matter. Anyone care to explain why teachers should be excluded from these categories and forced to enter the Open (which costs more to enter at Bristol/Britroc as well )?
    I think the prize is bigger so maybe the entry fee should be bigger

    I told you Rob, we should put together another double trouble team for Bristol. So long as Bill doesn't enter we should win

  6. #6
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Payment is irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    If you consider yourself good enough to stand up in front of a group of other dancers and teach them a routine you have choreographed (as opposed to taxi dancers helping beginners through a repeat of someone else's routine) then you are a teacher and should not be entering the 'beginners' category at any competition.
    Choreographed?

    How can you use the word "choreograph" in the context of picking four moves from a set of 20-odd, and teaching beginners to link them together in a totally consistent way. Before the Ceroc beginners routine was standardised this would have been a bit of a stretch, but now that Ceroc teachers don't even choose the moves for the beginners class, I can't see it at all.

    Let me get this straight...it seems to me that you're suggesting that as a taxi dancer I can teach the beginners the moves from the earlier beginners class without being a teacher, but if I pick four moves myself (that I've taught dozens of times from other earlier beginners classes) then that makes me a teacher??? I can't see it as a sensible distinction, I'm afraid.

    And what is it about calling the Intermediates the 'beginners' category?? Not a single comp of which I'm aware calls it that. It's a clever tactic to attempt to justify your argument simply by using a name for it that suits you - but it really doesn't wash.

    To treat Blackpool and Hammersmith Intermediates as a beginners category doesn's seem reasonable to me... and out of the others, only Bristol's Intermediates come close to fitting your description, where the definitions of the categories are pretty loose, but recommendations based on time dancing (Intermediates: at least 6 months, Advanced: at least a year).

    Britroc's rules this year specify that to be eligible for the Intermediates, you simply mustn't have won at Intermediates or higher at any MJ comp - and you mustn't be a teacher. Well this doesn't exclude many people - so I'd expect to see some pretty good Intermediates.



    Now, the advanced category at Ceroc/LeRoc/Britroc ..... that's a different matter. Anyone care to explain why teachers should be excluded from these categories and forced to enter the Open (which costs more to enter at Bristol/Britroc as well )?
    Well here we agree - as I've commented several times, and I believe Trampy has said much the same.

    But I'd go further - I don't see the need to exclude teachers from any category. Intermediates at a pinch, maybe, but in practice, how many teachers would actually enter at Intermediate level? New ones, maybe - there are some that aren't any better as dancers than some of the good intermediates. And if that's the case, why shouldn't they? But the experienced teachers who are also advanced dancers wouldn't enter the intermediates cos they didn't want to be laughed at. Or so I would speculate. Do we really think that there are hordes of teachers out there that would clog up the intermediates and prevent the genuine intermediates from getting anywhere?

    Chris

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    Re: Payment is irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    Choreographed?

    How can you use the word "choreograph" in the context of picking four moves from a set of 20-odd,
    OK, may be choreographed is not necessarily the right word for stringing 4 beginners moves together, but it is definitely the word I would use for any intermediate routine (at least I would hope that the teachers give it some thought as to what moves to put together in which order to allow a smooth flowing consistent routine).

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa
    Let me get this straight...it seems to me that you're suggesting that as a taxi dancer I can teach the beginners the moves from the earlier beginners class without being a teacher, but if I pick four moves myself (that I've taught dozens of times from other earlier beginners classes) then that makes me a teacher???
    Careful Chris, you are labelling yourself as a teacher now We'll be seeing you in the Open categories from now on will we ?

    Seriously though, by the time the beginners come to the repeat class with the taxi-dancers, they have already been taught the moves by the teacher. What I hope the taxi dancers are doing (at least this is what we do down in Fleet) is helping those who are still struggling with the moves, pointing out where they may be going wrong and giving extra hints on the lead/follow aspects which may not have been covered by the teacher on stage. That in my book is not teaching but helping less experienced dancers with constructive feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa
    And what is it about calling the Intermediates the 'beginners' category?? Not a single comp of which I'm aware calls it that. It's a clever tactic to attempt to justify your argument simply by using a name for it that suits you - but it really doesn't wash.
    Well I could use Gus's descriptions which equally well convey what the categories are about:
    Those that want to compete with the best (ie. Advanced at Blackpool, Open everywhere else), and those that don't (not questioning their reasons, but it could be that they are new to competing, hence me nominally labelling it a 'beginners' category).

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa
    To treat Blackpool and Hammersmith Intermediates as a beginners category doesn's seem reasonable to me...
    Chris, I am in no way insinuating that people who entered the Intermediate categories are beginners - I myself entered that category for several years. What I was stating is that they are 'beginners' to competing and as such don't want to dance against the best dancers.

  8. #8
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    Re: Payment is irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    Careful Chris, you are labelling yourself as a teacher now We'll be seeing you in the Open categories from now on will we ?
    Well, a fair point, even if you did mean it in jest. I've been a taxi dancer for about 5 years, and I'm pretty confident when it comes to teaching beginners. At Twickenham we run two types of review class - one for very recent beginners where we effectively repeat the beginners class, and an improvers class where the emphasis is on teaching how to freestyle.

    But for that to exclude me from the Advanced would IMHO be ludicrous.

    I agree with you that a semantic definition of payment that just refers to money is pretty arbitrary, since, as you say, I get free entry at a number of venues in return for taxiing, but it's just an example of how completely stupid is the "no teacher" rule - in any category IMHO. I would rate my dancing as competent intermediate still - though given that Jayne and I placed recently we're happy to move up - and as far as comps is concerned, well we've done two since we started only three months ago. Are we still beginners?

    Chris

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    Re: Payment is irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    and as far as comps is concerned, well we've done two since we started only three months ago. Are we still beginners?
    Given that I'm in the 'let people dance at a given level for a season (year ?)' camp, personally I would still allow you to dance at the same level up until next year's competition.

  10. #10
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    Re: Payment is irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by RobC
    Given that I'm in the 'let people dance at a given level for a season (year ?)' camp, personally I would still allow you to dance at the same level up until next year's competition.
    This camp has never appealed to me - particularly if one's year starts with arguably the most demanding one - Blackpool. If we were to dance at Intermediate level until next year, I can't help thinking that we'd improve less than we will if we move up now. I don't expect we'll stand any chance of actually getting anywhere again for ages yet, but I'd much rather improve quicker than slower, and be better prepared for the higher cat at next year's comp.

    On a completely separate note, how often do categories get over-subscribed? I could see it happening that just by not getting one's **** in gear quickly enough, one could miss out on entering at the appropriate level completely.

    Chris

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    Re: Payment is irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    On a completely separate note, how often do categories get over-subscribed? I could see it happening that just by not getting one's **** in gear quickly enough, one could miss out on entering at the appropriate level completely.
    Well last time I tried entering the Ceroc champs (excluding the double trouble entry last year) I was turned away and told the category was already full - but they were quite happy to hold onto my money for the entry into the event That, along with my personal views about the venue prompted me to pledge to never enter a competition at the Hammersmith Palais again.

    I have never had that problem at any other competition though.

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