Teachers or Entertainers

[Franck]

Originally posted by Heather
Congratulations to Franck and the success of our Pure Dead Brilliant website and Discussion Forum. ( Are you sure there's no Scottish blood somewhere in you Franck?) Even if there isn't you are an honorary Scotsman in my book Franck!!

Why thank you Heather
And yes I am sure I don't have any Scottish blood, half French - half Russian is me! But despite all this, I do feel totally at home in Scotland, and as my wife is Scottish, I consider my 2 boys to be Scottish as well...
Scotland is a fabulously welcoming place to live in, and I would not want to be anywhere else in the world!

Franck.

P.S. I was not going to say anything about going off topic, but yet again, it seems that thread has diverted in at least 5 different directions... Oh well Time for a little malt before bedtime then

[filthycute]

Originally posted by Franck
I thought someone might pick on that bit, and it had to be you
Now "asking for trouble", why does that ring a bell when you're around???

MOI!?!? Trouble? i think not!

OK maybe a little. Keeps things that little bit more interesting. My masters degree in sarcasm helps

I take your point earlier about wanting to learn more, but just now, I am too busy learning new things of you, to even think of trying to teach you anything. How do you do that body roll thing again

Keep it up,

Franck.

ahhh the body rolls.

Here's the trick...
Stand face to face with your partner...now touch each other simultaneously starting from your head and working down to your knees.

Does that help?
I've got Gus booked in for a private lesson on Saturday, i'll tackle you next

filthycute x x

[Franck]

Originally posted by filthycute
I've got Gus booked in for a private lesson on Saturday, i'll tackle you next

Hmm, I think I might enjoy the tackle more than the Body roll lesson
Anyway, who is that Gus you speak of??? I thought I was the only one

Franck.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Franck
Hmm, I think I might enjoy the tackle more than the Body roll lesson
Anyway, who is that Gus you speak of??? I thought I was the only one

Franck.

DONT BLAME ME, SHE MADE ME DO IT .... HONEST!

Excuse me Messr Franck sir but can you please return to the thread and stop to distract your Forum fans by going off topic and making salacious comments about tackling FC ... if all that drunken rumour mongering wasn't enough ... even England now knows about what you have/havn't been up to!

[Franck]

Originally posted by Gus
DONT BLAME ME, SHE MADE ME DO IT .... HONEST!

Excuse me Messr Franck sir but can you please return to the thread and stop to distract your Forum fans by going off topic and making salacious comments about tackling FC ... if all that drunken rumour mongering wasn't enough ... even England now knows about what you have/havn't been up to!

That's it, let's settle it once and for all ! Outside, square go in the Car park (Whoops or maybe not )
England knows about me Oh no, what have I done this time???
I'll deny it though, it was not me, just malicious rumours... I hardly ever go to England anyway...

Anyway, back on topic. All the teachers I know are very entertaining, and they have taught an awful lot of people to dance extremely well!

Franck.

[Emma]

Originally posted by Heather
I liken the taxi dancers to the Learning support teachers in schools, they work with the pupils who need extra support and help ( and a very important role they perform too).

That's exactly what I was thinking. Of course the same irony exists in dancing as in teaching - which is that the people in the most need tend to work with the people with the least training, which is not to denegrade the work of those vital assistants at all!

*Emma starts raving about teaching and learning policy and is carted off to the funny farm struggling and spitting*

..Thank God Dancing keeps me (almost) sane!

[Franck]

Originally posted by Emma
Of course the same irony exists in dancing as in teaching - which is that the people in the most need tend to work with the people with the least training,

This is not at all what happens in dancing. First Taxi-dancers are far from being people with the least training, they are very good dancers selected for their accurate technique as well as an open and friendly personality
When Freestyle starts , Beginners will have already followed a class and more or less learnt the moves and just need to get on the dance floor and practise by having a few dances. Taxi-dancers are extremely well suited to help them have a good (successful?) dance.

Franck.

[Jon]

I think that a Ceroc class is there is get people to mingle and to help build the friendly atomsphere at the venue. It should be the teachers job to know what level to teach at. There is no point the teacher entertaining the class with advanced moves if the general level of the class is intermediate.

As the class progresses the teacher should sense this and increse the difficulty of the lesson to provide a new challenge. This doesn't nessaceraly mean complicated moves but prehaps adding style into existing moves. One teacher at a class did this and I thought it would be easy since they were teaching beginner moves but with lots of style added in. It turned out I really had to concentrate. There is a saying the beginners want to learn intermediate moves and advanced dancers want to learn the beginner moves well. I think this applies to Ceroc.

One post mentioned that there are no workshops past imtermediate level especially in London. This is so not true, I personanlly have done well over 20 workshops in London in total. And in fact this weekend I'm doing 'Up Close and Personal'. There are lots of workshops ie. The swing thing', 'Dirty Dancing' and lots of style workshops around you just have to look out for them. And as for Advanced dancing well the Ceroc Charlton venue has taught an Advanced 1 workshop and is doing Advanced 2 and Double Trouble soon.

[Jon]

As for Taxi dancers.

Alot of posts have said that a person can become to good to be a taxi dancer.

What?, surely as long as they teach the moves acurately and are friendly and approachable they should be a taxi dancer.

I think a good taxi dancer is someone who:
1). Knows the moves well and is technically acurate.
2). Is able to give advice to help improve someones dancing. Not just to beginners but intermediates too.
3). Is friendly and who will dance with anyone of any standard.
4). While wearing the taxi shirt dances with beginers the most.
5). On days off from taxiing will dance with intermediates but still approach beginners.
6). When teaching the revision class spends time helping individuals master the moves, which can't be done by the actual teacher in the beginners class of over 100 people. I agree with Emma in that individual attention can be critical when your a beginner. You need to stop the bad habits at the beginner or it'll be harder later to change.
7). Above all else a taxi dancer should want to help people improve their dancing and it should be rewarding for them seeing people improve, otherwise they should not become taxi dancers.

In London there is a course that the taxi dancers have to go on, but having seen some of these taxi dancers I would question if they should be taxi dancers at all. So although a course sounds good I think that what it comes down to is the type of person and not how good a dancer they are that should determine who becomes a taxi dancer.

After all to make a beginner come back a 2nd time they need to have enjoyed themselves. This comes from them having achieved something. If they leave the venue having learnt 4 moves and had a good time they will be back. And they will achieve this with good taxi dancers who have a strong lead. I think the teacher and taxi dancers need to inject an element of fun into the moves. Anyone can teach the moves only some teachers can entertain at the same time.

When I first started it was the teacher (Kelly at Greenwich who's a fantastic teacher, one of the best in London You can by me a drink later!) and the taxi dancers that gave me the confidence I needed by getting me onto the dance floor in the freestyle. And the revision class was good as I could ask the people in that class for a dance and know they were at my level.

[Jon]

As for workshops at an advanced level check out
http://www.cerocgreenwich.co.uk/cerocshops.htm

[Bill]

Originally posted by Jon
As for Taxi dancers.

Alot of posts have said that a person can become to good to be a taxi dancer.

What?, surely as long as they teach the moves acurately and are friendly and approachable they should be a taxi dancer.

I agree ......but you have used the word again that we seem to be diagreeing on.......'teach'. Do we Taxi dancers teach or simply re-inforce what has been taught.

I agree with all 7 of your points Jon and I still enjoy taxi-ing even after more than 4 years and get a buzz from seeing the delight on a new members dface as they realsie they can do the moves and have fun

But I still think a proper introduction and/or traing session would be very helpful and I know taxi dancers who have simply been give a tee-shirt and told they'll be starting the following week - no discussion, no training and in some cases no sign of a manual.

It also helps I think to have a space away from the main floor ( this has been touched on before) so that there is more space and less embarrassment at trying the moves out.

If the teacher has made the class fun and the new members have enjoyed it then it obviously makes 'our' job that much easier.:p And lest we forget................it is still all about fun.....even for those of us who desperately want to improve and add some style to our dancing.

Anyone.........apart from FC, Gus and Franck have soemthing to say ? Perhaps we should have a thread for the three of them seeingas how they obviously have nothing better to do all day but send replies and start threads to get people going see you on sat Gus................remember those trousers now

[Gus]

Originally posted by bill foreman Anyone.........apart from FC, Gus and Franck have soemthing to say ? Perhaps we should have a thread for the three of them seeingas how they obviously have nothing better to do all day but send replies and start threads to get people going [/B]

You blaggard! How dare you call my non-life into scruitiny ... sad truth is, like many self-emplyed consultants, there ain't no work out there so I while away the daylight hours being Billy no mates in my office soming up with yet another brilliant plan to win a contract .... and stay logged into the forum.

Fear not .. once the economy truns round and people realise that they do actualy need Change Management Consultants then I shall dissappear from this forum as quickly as I arrived.

OH ... small point .. the only contract I'm in the running for is in Glasgow ... so you might not get rid of me that easy

[Franck]

Originally posted by bill foreman
But I still think a proper introduction and/or traing session would be very helpful

Well, Bill I have news for you. Lorna and I have finally managed to get our diaries to synchronize and we will be haveing a Taxi-dancer training workshop and general Crew meeting on Saturday 16th November. Once all the details (venue etc...) have been finalized, all the Aberdeen Crew will be contacted!

Yet another benefit of this Forum! While the above had been on my to do list for a while, this discussion certainly brought it right at the top of current priorities (other priorities include a similar day in Glasgow, the Competition, the 10th Birthday party and new nights in new cities...)

So once again thanks to all of you for the very insightful input you have shared in here, I am sure all the Beginners who join in Aberdeen / Glasgow after November will be very grateful!
Not to mention the respective teams of taxi-dancers who will of course have a fabulous day and get a free lunch in the process!

Franck.

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Jon
As the class progresses the teacher should sense this and increse the difficulty of the lesson to provide a new challenge. This doesn't nessaceraly mean complicated moves but prehaps adding style into existing moves. One teacher at a class did this and I thought it would be easy since they were teaching beginner moves but with lots of style added in. It turned out I really had to concentrate.

You said a lot of very good things in your posting but, rather than quote all of it and say 'yes, I agree with this, this, this ...' I've picked out a couple of points which I don't necessarily agree with. I just don't want you thinking that I'm being negative to your whole mail - sorry if it sounds that way.

Re. your quote above, yes, ideally the teacher should be flexible enough to be able to adapt his teaching according to the level of the class. And, if s/he sees that everyone has got to grips with the routine, then it's great to add style points. That way everyone can find it interesting and challenging.

The problem is that, with average classes of 80 to 100, there are always going to be huge differences in the levels of people's dancing. At any beginners' class, you will get people who have never been before and some who will have attended for years. How on earth do you decide on the balance between making the class easy enough for most people to get and challenging enough to keep the experienced people interested??

At best, you can only go for the middle ground - teach for the majority - but risk boring some people and making it too difficult for others. I think it's up to more experienced dancers to make the beginners' class more interesting themselves - taking the basic moves and seeing how they could do it in a different style, etc, etc. The teacher can help by adding style points and options for the more advanced, but can't do so much that he alienates the newer people (because, even if the style points aren't directed at absolute beginners, you can't stop them listening, and too much information could get them confused, or make them forget what was being said previously).

As for Taxi dancers. Alot of posts have said that a person can become to good to be a taxi dancer. What?, surely as long as they teach the moves acurately and are friendly and approachable they should be a taxi dancer.
... You need to stop the bad habits at the beginner or it'll be harder later to change.

In general, yes, if they do fill those criteria - ie they are accurate dancers and friendly... But, as others have said, some experienced dancers are almost too concerned with being technically accurate or stylish and they might put off a beginner by being insistent that they do everything absolutely properly.

I think it's probably better for a beginner to get moving very early on, and so feel like they are getting somewhere very quickly. If they're getting too strung up on the detail too early on, they might feel like they'll never get the hang of it. I agree that you have to teach people to get the basics correct, but you can always correct more minor faults later on, when they've mastered the essentials. There's only so much information anyone can take in at a time - particularly without getting disheartened that they're getting everything wrong. At least let them have a little success - ie get them dancing the moves in some way or another - before you launch into them with any kind of criticism.

And they will achieve this with good taxi dancers who have a strong lead. I think the teacher and taxi dancers need to inject an element of fun into the moves. Anyone can teach the moves only some teachers can entertain at the same time.

'Teachers and taxi dancers need to inject an element of fun into the moves' - yes, if they can - this definitely helps learning and make people want to come back for more. Good taxi dancers, however, don't always need to have a strong lead - female taxis dancing with males should surely resist the temptation to lead, if they ever want the man to learn for himself.

I'm afraid I totally disagree with 'anyone can teach the moves', but yes, there are very very few people who can be good entertainers with it. There is so much that goes into teaching, being able to look at things from a beginners' perspective and realise why they are finding a particular thing difficult, is a very hard thing to do when you've been dancing some years and it all feels so natural to you. And then, when you've sussed out why they're doing it wrong, how to explain it to them in the way that they'll understand - since everyone learns in different ways. Some learn by watching demonstration, some by gentle encouragement, some by being playfully bullied into it, some by repetition of clear step by step instructions ...

And the likelihood is, that different people in your class will find different things difficult and will learn best in a different way - so how much time can you focus on one particular individual, if it doesn't apply to the rest of the group? You have to be a very very good teacher to be able to get that kind of balance/focus right. In addition, the main teachers have so many other things to think about as well - when to include music, when to move people on, strict time limits to adhere to, making sure you're consistent in the way you dance the moves and explain them, and if you can, be entertaining as well ... which you might think is not too difficult, but to have to think of all these things simultaneously ... Nightmare! And I admire anyone who does it ... think I'll stick to teaching computers, it's much easier!!
Rachel

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Jon
And in fact this weekend I'm doing 'Up Close and Personal'. There are lots of workshops ie. The swing thing', 'Dirty Dancing' and lots of style workshops around you just have to look out for them.

Eh going off topic a bit but I do like the sound of these workshops, can you organise these for Aberdeen Franck

I don't think much more can be said about Taxi dancers. Lots of valid points made. My first night the Taxi dancer certainly helped me to decide to come back again. A friendly, non judgemental, non intimidating person who knows the moves and can go through them while making them seem achievable. Takes a lot of patience I imagine but necessary. Thanks to Bill who was my first Taxi dancer.

Cheers

Sandy

[Gus]

Originally posted by Sandy


Eh going off topic a bit but I do like the sound of these workshops, can you organise these for Aberdeen Franck
Sandy

Well .... as luck would have it I'm in the process of organising something very similar in Glasgow on the day of the 10 year party (23 Nov).

Final format is still to be decided but it will include 3 workshops probably including 'Up, Close and Personal', Drops and Leans and 'Club Jive'. Hope to get another workshop together for Aberdeen and elsewhere early next year, subject to it not conflicting to anything that Franck and Scot are organising.

Details will be on the Gorgeous Website (www.ggus.co.uk) in the coming weeks.

[Bill]

Originally posted by Sandy


I don't think much more can be said about Taxi dancers. Lots of valid points made. My first night the Taxi dancer certainly helped me to decide to come back again. A friendly, non judgemental, non intimidating person who knows the moves and can go through them while making them seem achievable. Takes a lot of patience I imagine but necessary. Thanks to Bill who was my first Taxi dancer.

Cheers

Sandy

OOohh..............what can I say... Only doing my job. This deserves a couple of bluesy dances I think

and Gus.......I'm sure you have some friends in fact I know you have but he tends to sit around and doesn't say much. Tell you what I'll buy you a drink on Saturday and make you feel better OK .....or is that FC's job

[Gus]

Originally posted by bill foreman


and Gus.......I'm sure you have some friends in fact I know you have but he tends to sit around and doesn't say much

In the interests of rumour control I should point out that the 'sitting around friend' that Blues-mad Bill is refering to is actualy a 3ft stuffed Gorrilla called 'Gorgeous Gus' ... my club mascot.

I would bring him up with me but think I many get a few odd looks on the train ... well even more than usual.

Re FC ... if you guys can't control her I don't see that I should be volunteered for the role ... what are you men or mice?

[filthycute]

Originally posted by Gus


Re FC ... if you guys can't control her I don't see that I should be volunteered for the role ... what are you men or mice?

Uncontrolable??? Are we talking about the same FC here?

JEEZ!, you guys really help get my dance card full! ...Cheers!

filthycute x x

PS...BTW guys, if you give me bad advertsing and no one wants to dance with the "raving lunatic", it looks like you'll have to dance with me all night
On your own head be it

[Gus]

Originally posted by filthycute


Uncontrolable??? Are we talking about the same FC here?

May I take this opportuntity to distance myself from the slanderous comments made against FC obviously perpetrated by a malicous hacker using my account.

I can say that I have alwys found FC a delight to dance with and she has always been sweetness and light on the dancefloor

However ... there is no comment about her limbo dancing, bodyrolling behaviour outside the Ceroc venues!!1