Racial representation

[Gus]

Was thinking about this the other day. Name a dozen or so black MJers. I thought of Viktor, H, Obi, Des, Joseph etc.... Then I realised that they are all teachers. I tried to think of ANY black dancer I know ... couldn’t think of one. Purposely looked round the dancefloor the last few events .... predominantly a sea of white faces. Interestingly, I've noticed we have about half a dozen Anglo-Asian dancers ... but still no one of afro-descent. WHY? Any answers? I think that there is a whole section of society that could be involved in dance but at the moment seem o be missing. Is it because the afro-Caribbean community already have a strong dance culture? Any comments

NB If the above has included any non-politically correct terms please accept my abject apologies. However, having a West Indian mother I do take exception some of the PC cr*p that pervades, like the fact that I have to refer to her being 'black' when she is patently 'coloured'

[Andy McGregor]

However, having a West Indian mother I do take exception some of the PC cr*p that pervades, like the fact that I have to refer to her being 'black' when she is patently 'coloured'

You've made me think. I'm referred to as 'white' and I am very obviously not. I am coloured too - although I'm not sure how to describe my colour: is there a colour called 'pasty'?

My own, very serious, opinion on this is that we shouldn't be measuring numbers by colour, race, sex, etc. Once you start that you get into quotas, positive discrimination, etc. And you get into racial stereotypes too. It's a minefield and I don't want to enter it at all.

On the other hand, we should be vigilant to ensure that dance classes are racially inclusive and no particular group are made to feel unwelcome. On this front I know some of the questions: I just wish I knew more of the answers.

And yes, I know my response is inconclusive. I've really got no conclusion to add but thought I'd express what views I have to support Gus - this is a difficult subject and I think Gus is courageous to raise it

[Emma]

I remember raising this one ages and ages ago (and the searchworthy can dredge it up if they feel like it!). I think it's a very interesting issue.

There *are* a few black/asian dancers on the scene...but yes, only a few: and for London (which is where I am, so what I know) hardly a representation of the multicultural mix. Modern Jive (Ceroc, whatever) is very white.

We busked recently in Lewisham, which is very multicultural - I'm not sure what the takeup has been from those busks (Dan?) but I certainly haven't noticed a big difference in the racial origins of the beginners.

I wondered whether the fact that a *lot* of people find MJ through personal recommendation (the 'ripple effect') means that recommendations are staying mainly in the white community.....

[CJ]

We've all seen the film "White Men Can't Jump."

Maybe it's because black men can't dance!!



Gilbert? Pah. Obi?? Hmph. Viktor?!? Never heard of 'im...

[Gus]

We've all seen the film "White Men Can't Jump."

Maybe it's because black men can't dance!!

Often wondered ... is there any objective scientific evidence as to why Afro and Caribbean genes seem to allow people to dance better? All the evidence I've seen points to it being true ... but why?

[CJ]

Afro-Carribeans..............rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Latinos..........................rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Celts.............................rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Maoris...........................rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Native Americans.............rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Asian Subcontinentals.......rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Anglo-Saxons......................Nope
Jews..................................Nope

No scientific substanciation, just experience of approx 1000 gigs. Let's not forget it is a slight generalisation and there will be exceptions, but I do have absolute, albeit hearsay (can't remember legal term), proof.

Don't even get me started on my doom-doom/shoogy shoog theory!!

[Gus]

Afro-Carribeans..............rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Latinos..........................rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Celts.............................rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Maoris...........................rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Native Americans.............rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Asian Subcontinentals.......rhythm? check. Can dance? check
Anglo-Saxons......................Nope
Jews..................................Nope

So what about Anglo-Carribeans with no Afro??

Come to think about it, what about Greeko-German (Saxon?) .... female dancer from Leeds ... and Russo-Gaul (Froggie?) ... certain omnipitent perosna from Scottyland? Want to grade their chances?

[Gadget]

[QUOTE=Ceroc Jock]Asian Subcontinentals.......rhythm? check. Can dance? check[QUOTE]
I've not really danced with many people of a different racial background, but on this one I have to dissagree. You would think that with the steriotypical "martial art" background, they would all be superfly, but alas, no.

[TheTramp]

So what about Anglo-Carribeans with no Afro??

Come to think about it, what about Greeko-German (Saxon?) .... female dancer from Leeds ... and Russo-Gaul (Froggie?) ... certain omnipitent perosna from Scottyland? Want to grade their chances?

Strange French/Russian/Scottish mix........ no chance



Trampy

[CJ]

[QUOTE=Gus]So what about Anglo-Carribeans with no Afro??QUOTE]

Afros are cool, man.

Was thinking about one, myself.

Even after thr gigs I've done, I couldn't generalise about EVERYONE. LOL.

Seriously, you make a good point and it would be good to find out what causes the phenomenon.

[Dreadful Scathe]

I think perhaps if you open a Ceroc venue in Kenya you'll get more black people Scotland not so many, even working in a major city like Glasgow I can go days without seeing anyone 'black'. Maybe Im just not very observant though Different in London where theres a more diverse population but if you compared it to other 'hobbies' like scuba diving, flower arranging, going down the pub or anything else you can think of - will the ratio be roughly the same ? what i mean is, is the lack of black people in any way strange? Maybe they're just noticable by their absence, being darker in tone and the actual ratio is true to the population ratio?

How many Scots go to classes down south ...hah not so easy to tell is it

[Gus]

I think perhaps if you open a Ceroc venue in Kenya you'll get more black people Scotland not so many

OK ... I know two Scotish black dancers .... Obi and Gilbert ... two of the nicest guys you could wish to meet ... AND both Teachers! So 100% of Scottish MJ dancers are Teachers QED. Think that smacks of real racial inequality.

[Gus]

Celts.............................rhythm? check. Can dance? check

Since when???

Asian Subcontinentals.......rhythm? check. Can dance? check

Not a sure about this one ... would have said more mortal than that.

What about those of S.E Asian decendancy .... Lily, Roger C.

Hey ... just realised the answers simple!

Rest of the World ... CAN DANCE
Anglo-Saxon ... CAN'T DANCE

Simple uhhh

[Nick M]

We've all seen the film "White Men Can't Jump."

Maybe it's because black men can't dance!!



Gilbert? Pah. Obi?? Hmph. Viktor?!? Never heard of 'im...

Why is it that the Salsa classes are so much more racially mixed? (Or at least, this is the case in Bristol)

Nick

[Liz]

Often wondered ... is there any objective scientific evidence as to why Afro and Caribbean genes seem to allow people to dance better? All the evidence I've seen points to it being true ... but why?

Could it be they just don't tend to like MJ music? I Salsa every week and find many more black people do that.

[Dan]

It is a culture thing in my opinion. Many people will have mixed cultures (family environment and circle of friends) and have a tendency to prefer dance forms common to those cultures. Lots of people in go to salsa classes where there is a high percentage of anglo-saxons, ditto for tango.
At the other hand the percentage of afro-carribeans doing Morris dancing or the Irish Jig is depressing low.

As to whether certain racial types make better dancers, it is in the eyes of the beholder. Viktor went down under to the land of aerials and won the Jivemasters, Martin wowed us at the Ceroc Champs with Double trouble Supergirls. Variety is the name of the game. The little guy from Mars with antenae would be so popular with a modicum of dancing skill.


.

[Lory]

Could it be they just don't tend to like MJ music? I Salsa every week and find many more black people do that.

Maybe it's a community thing? I must admit, I might find it a bit intimidating to go somewhere completely new, where I didn't know ANYONE and be the only white face!
It's funny, it never crossed my mind before if the person I was dancing with was black or not but this thread has prompted me to think about my recent dance nights..... I danced with Victor, Dale and one other black guy on Sunday at the Jivemasters and Des (wongd) last night. But it's not something I'd usually think about! They're all just fabby dancers!

[Dance Demon]

OK ... I know two Scotish black dancers .... Obi and Gilbert ... two of the nicest guys you could wish to meet ... AND both Teachers! :

Think you'll find that Gilbert doesn't teach...or if he does, it is very infrequently.........but he's still one of the smoothest movers I've ever seen


Does this thread include black female dancers ?......we have Stephanie in Edinburgh, who hasn't been dancing for that long, but boy what a mover......i love dancing with her to swingy blues and soul tracks....

[Lynn]

Found this interesting – we don’t have as big a non-white community in NI (though we do in the village where I live!) – here the cultural issue would be ‘religion’. And it seems that maybe because firstly salsa, and now MJ aren’t ‘owned’ by either community, they are neutral and well mixed. Which is really great. Though it does raise some problems for venues – there are lots of great halls for freestyles – but they are often in the heart of one or other of the two communities!

[Sheepman]

Am I racist?
Given the situation where there are 2 women, one black, one white, both unknown to me, and I'm going to ask one of them to dance, I will most likely ask the black woman.
Going down the road of quotas is a nonsense, and would there be any point in aiming the marketing for Jive at different sections within society?
I think my reasoning behind asking the black woman would be that I would be particular keen to make her feel included and welcomed, as it is more likely that she will feel out of place. I'm sure it is not because I think she will be the better dancer, because I would have no reason to think that.
I included the point about them being unknown to me, because once I get past that, it is completely irrelevant to me what race they belong to.

Greg