Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 71

Thread: Teachers as examples to other Teachers

  1. #1
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    York
    Posts
    5,203
    Rep Power
    13

    Question Teachers as examples to other Teachers

    Looking for some help, and maybe starting a valuable debate as well...

    Like most dancers I would like to improve my dancing ... but more than that I’d like to improve my teaching ... and that an altogether harder challenge. There isn’t a simple class or workshop you can go to. The ability to be a teacher of teachers is also a rare commodity, both in terms of skill and experience. As an independent MJ instructor I at first felt that it would be a real reason to rejoin CTA as they do have a very good teacher training course ... BUT, unless things have changed, this is really aimed at new teachers .. not experienced teachers.

    SO ... in the absence any other bright ideas I reasoned things this way ...

    In business, the way the Business Gurus identify winning ‘best practice’ is to look at the best companies and assess what they are doing to be so successful. Taking this example to the MJ dance arena it would therefore seem sensible to identify the better teachers (not necessarily the superstars) and try to learn from them, other by observation or coaching sessions.

    So ... (for the second time) .... who do you think is a good teacher, one who’s example you think others could learn from. They don’t have to be a ‘complete’ teacher ... maybe there are weak points in what they do ... but I’m interested in what they do well. Also, in the nicest possible way ... PLEASE don’t just propose your local instructor just because they’re nice or because you think you should.... I’m really trying to get a list of those I can learn from. Maybe a good way would be to PM me if you don’t want your honest thoughts subject to the open scrutiny of the Forum.

    Aside from the usual villains (N&N, Viktor, Amir) the ones on my list so far as Marc and Nelson Rose ... both conveniently teaching MILE away from me . Luckily, another on my list is the legendary Sue Freeman ... a mere 100 miles away .

    SUGGESTIONS?
    Last edited by Gus; 28th-May-2004 at 04:06 PM.

  2. #2
    The Dashing Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    3,556
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Teachers as examples to other Teachers

    Originally posted by Gus
    Marc ... both conveniently teaching MILE away from me . Luckily, another on my list is the legendary Sue Freeman ... a mere 100 miles away .
    Assuming you mean Rachel's Marc, he sometimes teaches in Nottingham on Monday nights - dunno exact mileage from where you are but if you're in Manchester I'd bet it's less than 100 miles (try multimap with NG7 2BY).

    Rachel can confirm, but I think Marc might be teaching there this Bank Holiday Monday.

    David
    Love dance, will travel

  3. #3
    Registered User Jayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    1,000
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Teachers as examples to other Teachers

    Originally posted by Gus
    Aside from the usual villains (N&N, Viktor, Amir) ~snip~ SUGGESTIONS?
    I'm afraid I've got to say that the best teacher for me is Amir. There is one simple reason for this.

    He's a dancer.

    I watch him do a simple movement and I'm in awe of the guy and it really inspires me to try harder, keep practicing, practicing and practicing and one day I might not be too bad....

    I guess that's not much help though Gus - unless you're going to give up the day job and join a ballet company

    J

  4. #4
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    York
    Posts
    5,203
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Re: Teachers as examples to other Teachers

    Originally posted by Jayne
    I guess that's not much help though Gus - unless you're going to give up the day job and join a ballet company
    I'm not interested in trying to dance like Amir (fat chance!!), what I'm looking is to understand how he teaches at a level above common plebs like myself. I know he does personal dance coaching ... not sure about teaching coaching ... BUT, am intending to smuggle myself down South to see him in action at Hipsters ... one day...

  5. #5
    Registered User Jayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    1,000
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Re: Re: Teachers as examples to other Teachers

    Originally posted by Gus
    I'm not interested in trying to dance like Amir (fat chance!!)
    Ditto!

    Originally posted by Gus
    what I'm looking is to understand how he teaches at a level above common plebs like myself.
    For me the thing that puts Amir above other teachers is that he inspires me. As for actual teaching technique, I like the way he teaches a move a few times and then gives you 30 seconds to have a go. This really makes sure that you're on the ball and that you're actually learning, not just going through the motions (which is what I was very guilty of). However, if you're not on the ball you can get left behind.

    Originally posted by Gus
    BUT, am intending to smuggle myself down South to see him in action at Hipsters ... one day...


    J

  6. #6
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    3,830
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Re: Teachers as examples to other Teachers

    Originally posted by Jayne
    the best teacher for me is Amir. There is one simple reason for this.

    He's a dancer.


    Though that's not why he's such a good teacher IMHO.

    A few things come to mind...

    - he articulates what he wants us to do extremely clearly.

    - he _does_ exactly what he _says_, every time - so there's no eye/ear dissonance to hinder learning; and he can isolate small portions (usually the difficult bits) of a move he's teaching in order to demo it.

    - he teaches the entries and exits from moves with the same precision, which makes it a lot easier to get into the right positions

    - he watches the class and accurately identifies what's going wrong, and explains why; often not only with a demo of what you should be doing, but also one of what you should not be doing. His coordination is such that he can make this remarkably clear.

    Secondary, but still relevant, he's very funny, and manages to be human while looking pretty awesome (I expect a discount now )

    Chris

    PS All hail his demos, too. Originally Kate , but more recently Debster , Hayley and Yuko .

  7. #7
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15
    This thread has become an Amir love fest. Speaking personally, Amir is IMHO actually the best teacher in the MJ scene. But he does have a very long neck so he's not perfect

    I also agree with Gus that Nelson is a fab teacher too - and he's also a brilliant DJ.

    IMHO you do have to be a great dancer to be a great dance teacher. After all, how could anyone become better than their teacher

    But, I don't think it follows that a great dancer can be a great teacher because they are very different skills.

    I've been wondering for a while if other classically trained dancers could easily become great MJ teachers. If that were found to be true it would be brilliant: every town and village would have a great MJ teacher

  8. #8
    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    3,045
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    10
    There are many teachers out there that have the experience, knowledge and inspiration to teach other teachers.
    One of the most common failures of teachers (in all categories of life) is to never see anyone else teach and become stuck in your own ways.
    Of course it isn't easy to see other teachers, unless you're prepared to travel.
    This is why I have been very keen to invite as many top teachers to Scotland as possible, and to encourage all my teachers to attend their workshops and pick-up new ideas, styles, ways of teaching etc...

    This approach has worked very well over the last 10 years, with such inspirations as Viktor (several times), Emma Pettitt (about 6 years ago in Edinburgh, and in a few weeks again in Glasgow), H (who taught one of the best smooth style class I've seen), Adam and Mandy (who so far twice compelled and dazzled the Scottish crowds and are coming back to teach new stuff in July), David and LilyB who brought grace and technical expertise to a new level and only last week-end Marc & Rachel, new teacher (relatively) but incredibly inspiring and original!
    My approach is to look for new concepts / ideas that I either aspire to, or simply can't do / teach.

    I believe that in the process, not only has the level of dancing improved significantly, but the standard of teaching in Scotland is amongst the highest in the UK.

    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    IMHO you do have to be a great dancer to be a great dance teacher. After all, how could anyone become better than their teacher
    In that respect (and this has been discussed before) I disagree. It should be every (good) teacher's aspiration that (at least some of) their students become better than themselves.
    Of course they should be 'competent' dancers but as you say in the rest of your post, teaching and dancing (whether in competitions or inter-personal dancing) are very different skills.
    Franck.

    There's an A.P.P. for that!

  9. #9
    Registered User Doc Iain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Surrey/S London
    Posts
    167
    Rep Power
    11
    From my point of view a good teacher is someone that can
    1)explain their point in an intelligable way, and
    2) add interest to their lessons.

    Now obviously this has a number of limitations, it is very good for beginners but not so good for more advanced dancers. But I believe the teachers that have been mentioned (and many others) who are very good still manage to achieve this. There appear to be a number of ways to do this, Amir (as has been mentioned...many many times) adds musicality and style into his lessons. Viktor and Nigel blend in other dance styles which brings style etc. but I think that the key is to teach moves the work in freestlye, and to teach the all important aspects of lead and follow at the same time. BUT at the same time, blend in something of interest forthe more advanced dancers. This could be some extra stlye tips, or an aim (ie. dance this more smoothly...or emphasise the beats more by stretching and shrinking areas of the taught move).

    As I was once told by one teacher, there is no point going through a lesson unchallenged, the brain is like anyother area of the body and does not really develop unless pushed a little bit. so the key that the "best" teachers have got is that they can do this for every level of people doing the lesson.


    However Gus... you may already do this!!! in which case I haven't got a clue and next time I am anywhere near you I must catch a lesson!!

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    bedford
    Posts
    4,899
    Rep Power
    13
    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    IMHO you do have to be a great dancer to be a great dance teacher. After all, how could anyone become better than their teacher
    Often the greats have a natural talent. They do not know how they do what they do. In some cases when they try to take on formal training they actually lose their natural gift.

    Often the less gifted, who have had to struggle and study hard to achieve what they have learned make the best teachers, because they appreciate the difficulties, and have the knowledge of how to work through them. The gifted, on the other hand, may be able to demonstrate, but they may not be able to explain the process, nor have the understanding and patience to wait whilst the learner struggles through it.

    A dancer talks with thier body, their mouth may not be so lucid.

    You get better than your teacher with the necessary talent, and studying other teachers, and working extra bits it out for yourself.

  11. #11
    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    3,045
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Re: Re: Teachers as examples to other Teachers

    Originally posted by Gus
    I'm not interested in trying to dance like Amir (fat chance!!), what I'm looking is to understand how he teaches at a level above common plebs like myself.
    I think that aside from an (natural or learnt) ability to explain (simple or complex) concepts clearly to different people, improving as a teacher is a personal journey.
    Same as improving as a dancer.
    You reach many plateaus, highs and lows, but perseverance, passion, generosity (in sharing your knowledge), an open mind and experience will make the most difference.
    Teachers should never forget they are students themselves and always learning new concepts, the moment we stop learning, we stop being able to teach and also lose enthusiasm / passion / drive...
    Franck.

    There's an A.P.P. for that!

  12. #12
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18
    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    IMHO you do have to be a great dancer to be a great dance teacher. After all, how could anyone become better than their teacher
    The best students will always become better* then their teachers, unless what they are being taught is 100% perfect already and there is no room for evolution or improvement - cant think of anything that that applys too though.


    * now we just need to define 'better'

  13. #13
    The Forum Legend
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    10,672
    Rep Power
    14
    Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
    The best students will always become better* then their teachers, unless what they are being taught is 100% perfect already and there is no room for evolution or improvement - cant think of anything that that applys too though.


    * now we just need to define 'better'
    I'd only agree with this statement if you are stopping the teachers improving as better dancers themselves. Your statement assumes that the teachers stand still on their own dance development, thus allowing their students to overtake them. And if this was the case, then I'd agree with you totally.

    However, of course, your statement is inaccurate, as the teachers are learning and developing their own dancing as well as teaching, and you seem to have forgotten, or not allowed for this.

    Your statement may well still be true of course. Equally, it may well not be true. And in fact, since (assuming) the teachers already start off with a lead, it relys on the students learning at a faster speed in order to become better than them. So, the odds are a little biased towards the teachers staying out in front. Of course, this does depend on the individuals concerned....

    Trampy

  14. #14
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Hove Actually
    Posts
    7,924
    Rep Power
    14
    Jo Thompson (USA) who teaches Line Dancing and West Coast Swing was voted the best dance teacher (not sure of region) - after attending her West Coast Swing class a couple of years ago (in Harrow) I can see why - fantastic - clear instructions and she danced the moves taught with ALL the people in her class, changing from lead to follow during the lesson AND at all times she kept the count going

    In fact regardless of the style taught, we can learn a lot from our visiting overseas dance instructors - my personal favourite is Steve Mitchell.he sings moves through (teaches mostly style and technique using swing as a basis)



    PS: Nigel and Nina ALWAYS do the lessons from these overseas teachers

    PPS: Private lessons from them on different teaching techniques must be well worth the money

    PPPS: Jordan and Tatiana will be performing at Rebel Yell this year


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  15. #15
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18
    Originally posted by TheTramp
    I'd only agree with this statement if you are stopping the teachers improving as better dancers themselves. Your statement assumes that the teachers stand still on their own dance development, thus allowing their students to overtake them.

    However, of course, your statement is inaccurate, as the teachers are learning and developing their own dancing as well as teaching, and you seem to have forgotten, or not allowed for this.

    Your statement may well still be true of course. Equally, it may well not be true. And in fact, since (assuming) the teachers already start off with a lead, it relys on the students learning at a faster speed in order to become better than them. So, the odds are a little biased towards the teachers staying out in front. Of course, this does depend on the individuals concerned....

    I was replying to Andys post that suggested he couldnt understand how a pupil could be better than a teacher, I think there are lots of reasons why this would be true. Particularly talented pupils, teachers who dont want to experiment outside therir expertise and therefore dont bring in anything new and grow stale? an active pupil would leave them standing .

    Some teachers sheer enthusiasm will make them great teachers and inspire their pupils but maybe theyre not that great technically and a lot of their students soon surpase them - ive seen this before. Not everyone is a master of what they teach. I teach a lot of different IT courses for a living and sometimes I know im sharing specific knowledge about a certain area that may amount to a lot of knowledge for me, but is a drop in the ocean for some of the people I teach - plus they get to use it much more than i do and within a short time could well train me. Sometimes a starting point is all the teacher really provides ! And to assume the teacher is always starting of with a lead is false i think - not everyone you teach is going to be completely new to what you have to teach them
    Last edited by Dreadful Scathe; 29th-May-2004 at 08:25 PM.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    bedford
    Posts
    4,899
    Rep Power
    13
    Originally posted by TheTramp
    Your statement assumes that the teachers stand still on their own dance development, thus allowing their students to overtake them.
    As dancers we could have access to lessons by ten different teachers each week, and go to our choices of venues.
    Most of the teachers I know are teaching on average 5 times a week. They do learn from their pupils, their colleagues, as well as training courses and visits to other venues, but most are still behind the most avid dancers in their opporunities to practise and progress.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Cruden Bay (Aberde
    Posts
    7,053
    Rep Power
    13
    I only have a limited number of teachers I have seen, but here's what I think each of them excels at (in the order I experianced their teaching abilities):

    Lorna: I think fact she was a music teacher may have something to do with this, but she 'counts' very well - breaks down the moves and gets everyone in-sync throught the class. I didn't really appreciate this (or how much it helps) until I realised that I was using some of the the counts and timings she would when other teachers were teaching.

    Franck: Excelent beginners teacher - I'm sure some of the verbal slips must be intentional, but he is very humerous from the stage. The occasional "flaw" and his whole demenour prove that mr & mrs Joe Public can do it. He conveys lots of enthusiasm and a great passion.

    Gus/Mandy: Work very well in a dual teaching role. Gus's enthusiasm is what I remember most about his teaching style.

    Adam: Style and confidence I think are what I remember most from his workshops. And the humor, but I think that this was more from his confidence and being relaxed than any direct effort to entertain.

    DavidB: Very knowledgable; individual pieces could be broken down, examined seperatly, and put back into the whole.

    Lilly: Style. Teaches very well by example and demonstration.

    Lisa: Her demos and walk-throughs are very stylish, {getting better as her confidence and teaching experiance increases} There are a lot more 'florishes' and posiive stylings in ladies dancing since she began teaching.

    Marc: I liked his method of showing/explaining at the start and not really labouring the point throught the lessons - just gentle reminders.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    3,166
    Rep Power
    11
    The ability to be a teacher of teachers is also a rare commodity


    This is very true

    I am not a dance teacher, but many years ago I taught sub aqua at Edinburgh University diving club

    The people who taught me to teach was team from London who organised training weekend fro instructors

    I think the basic rules of teaching apply regardless of what is being taught

    So if you cannot find a dance teachers, teacher. It might be worth looking at some other disciplines that interest you

    Yes I have to agree Amir is an amazing teacher he has that infectious enthusiasm that is so incredibly rare


    As for can the student become better than the instructor? The answer is defiantly yes

    Changing disciplines again and delving into my murk past. I taught the current word champion in another sport but I never even approach his level
    Last edited by philsmove; 30th-May-2004 at 09:41 AM.

  19. #19
    Registered User JamesGeary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Fulham, London
    Posts
    287
    Rep Power
    11
    Originally posted by Minnie M
    PPPS: Jordan and Tatiana will be performing at Rebel Yell this year [/B]
    When's that?

  20. #20
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Hove Actually
    Posts
    7,924
    Rep Power
    14
    Originally posted by JamesGeary
    When's that?
    Saturday 2nd October at the HG Wells Centre, Woking


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Age of Ceroc teachers?
    By David Bailey in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 1st-October-2006, 02:13 PM
  2. Teachers or Entertainers
    By Gus in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 22nd-November-2004, 03:16 PM
  3. Teachers/Dj money/value
    By tiger in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 26th-September-2004, 08:55 PM
  4. Top Teachers?
    By Gus in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 99
    Last Post: 29th-January-2004, 11:43 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •