Bouncy Hands

[Andy McGregor]

Although they don't actually seem to teach it, most people who I've seen/partnered who are taught to dance by Ceroc have a pronounced bounce to their dancing. This is both in the knees and particularly in the hands. The women I dance with also have a way of skipping and repeately breaking the frame and often keep their free hand well above shoulder height with a sort of wave that can even place their hand behind their head where it's difficult to catch hold of. If fact there's so much going on that you're not left with many opportunities to lead anything very complex and marking a break is all but impossible without risking having your shoulder dislocated


Now the good news



Adam, the Ceroc Metro Franchisee, taught a 'Smooth as Candy' class at Stompin' that was a revelation. This style is exactly the same as all the teachers I respect most. Just like Nigel, Amir, Nelson, DavidB, etc, etc (apologies to those I've missed). No bounce, smoooooth pressure, dancing in the slot, keeping the girl moving, maintaining the frame, etc. What a FANTASTIC place the world of MJ will be if the WHOLE of Ceroc start teaching this way. No more jerked shoulders, far fewer dance floor collisions, fewer tiring/frustrating/painful dances. And, I think, there would be a change in the music to match this smoother style - less bouncy, relentless pop and more swingy, smooth music, probably more bluesy sounds too

Come on Ceroc, talk to Adam Nathanson, his is the way forward

p.s. Having met Adam a few times it might be more appropriate to ask Ceroc to listen - Adam's probably already talking...

p.p.s. I know, I know, pot/kettle/black


N.B. I can only comment about the Ceroc dancers I've danced with/seen, which is mostly those from SE England. Having danced with many of the girls from Scotland this bouncy style does not seem to have been spread Northwards - which is nice

[RobC]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
No bounce, smoooooth pressure, dancing in the slot, keeping the girl moving, maintaining the frame, etc. What a FANTASTIC place the world of MJ will be if the WHOLE of Ceroc start teaching this way.

So you've obviously never been to any Ceroc Plus classes in Fleet then Andy ?

Smooth and non-bouncy is the way we have always taught - just because we are now called Ceroc doesn't change that

[Chris]

Originally posted by RobC
Smooth and non-bouncy is the way we have always taught - just because we are now called Ceroc doesn't change that

I agree with RobC there - I even mentioned Simon (Fleet) as a prime example of non-bouncy when this thread arose before. You can see it on the video clips on their website too.

Smooth non-bouncy works better for many reasons IMO, more control, more sensitive control, more constant and gentler tension. I'm not surprised N&N use it as they work from dance movement principles rather than a more arbitrary rule book.

Adam will have it, I would guess, because it is standard in NZ (where his partner and dance 'brains' trained). Having learnt the 'best' way, few would go back to the bounce.

Bounces, like hand semi-circles (and often the two seem linked) can always be added. If they are added as a style thing out of choice (rather than taught as the default) then the dancers don't lose control (balance, lead-and-follow, have already been properly established)

Ironically I now enjoy adding those little Viktor-flappy-hand-circles to dances lol - maybe I'll add a bounce or two at the weekend . . .

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by RobC
So you've obviously never been to any Ceroc Plus classes in Fleet then Andy ?

Smooth and non-bouncy is the way we have always taught - just because we are now called Ceroc doesn't change that

So why is it called Ceroc when the rest of Ceroc in our area is bouncy. What product am I getting at Ceroc - I thought the idea of a franchise was consistency of product

Hey, suddenly I've found a Big Mac with a Pineapple in it

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Chris
Bounces, like hand semi-circles (and often the two seem linked) can always be added. If they are added as a style thing out of choice (rather than taught as the default) then the dancers don't lose control (balance, lead-and-follow, have already been properly established)

Gus gave us a brilliant example of this at Stompin'. He taught his 'Club Style' where he used a bounce in and out to great affect. I think his workshop was the best one I went to at the weekend because there are things he taught that have changed the way I dance

I now know that Gus is far too modest on here. He's a great dancer and a teaches a fun class with new (to me) ideas in it

[Paul F]

A few weeks ago I taught a class entitled "Perpetual motion - no return"

I concoted a string of patterns with no breaks. The idea was to get the moves to flow into each other.
The moves i taught didnt really allow for any boucing. I must be honest I dont really see any of the bouncing thing up here anyway which is good.
Got really good reviews so I think I will be doing it again soon.

[Chris]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Gus gave us a brilliant example of this at Stompin'. He taught his 'Club Style' where he used a bounce in and out to great affect.

I can enjoy watching Gus but his style is far too 'Leroc-ish' for my own personal taste. Reminds me of Lynn of Blitz (lovely dancer) and Dave of Trinity. In fact you are quite leroc-ish Andy!

I fancy stealing a bounce from, say, Lindy. Not that I can or want to dance Lindy . . . but there are some nice bounces and turns there . . .

[ChrisA]

Is there a risk of an urban myth growing here?

AFAIK, Ceroc doesn't teach bouncy hands anywhere.

Lots of beginners bounce their hands because presumably in the early days they can't hear the beat reliably in their head as well as dance the moves, and then it sticks.

Amir has the best analogy that I've heard... he describes beginner readers as having to follow the words with their fingers, but then when they get more fluent they don't have to any more, and their reading becomes fluent rather than jerky...

... in the same way, dancers should learn to hear the beat in their head without bouncing it in their hands.

Ceroc would do the MJ world a great service though, if it actively taught people NOT to bounce their hands.

Chris

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Is there a risk of an urban myth growing here?

AFAIK, Ceroc doesn't teach bouncy hands anywhere.

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Although they don't actually seem to teach it, most people who I've seen/partnered who are taught to dance by Ceroc have a pronounced bounce to their dancing. This is both in the knees and particularly in the hands.

Hey, we both agree that Ceroc don't teach bouncy hands - it's a start

I think it's one of those things that gets passed down in the class - rather like an infection. Beginners who started at Hipsters don't have bouncy hands. Maybe there is an innoculation they get given by Nigel during a grince

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Maybe there is an innoculation they get given by Nigel during a grince

That's it, no more grincing with Nigel for me

Greg

[Bill]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Although they don't actually seem to teach it, most people who I've seen/partnered who are taught to dance by Ceroc have a pronounced bounce to their dancing.

And, I think, there would be a change in the music to match this smoother style - less bouncy, relentless pop and more swingy, smooth music, probably more bluesy sounds too

None of the teachers up here teach a bounce although it is my recollection of how most of us danced when we started.

I think it is a beginner's 'problem' and the stomping motion does help them keep a beat but when I'm taxi-ing I do suggest that they don't have to stamp out the beat.

It helps that in Aberdeen both Lisa and Lorna are very pretty smooth and the number of dancers attending workshops and weekenders is increasing so more and more of us are being influenced by the likes of N&N, D &L, Adam etc....

That in turn is helping change the music that many of us prefer - more 'bluesy' tracks and more interesting tracks we can play with. Steve has also helped by playing a range that might not have been played before.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Chris
I can enjoy watching Gus but his style is far too 'Leroc-ish' for my own personal taste. Reminds me of Lynn of Blitz (lovely dancer) and Dave of Trinity. In fact you are quite leroc-ish Andy!

Chris ... what planet are you from???? Lynn is form a Ballroom backround but also likes v fast music. Her style is absolutely NOTHING like mine! Although I do teach a club style ... its again nothing like Dave of Trinity ... are you actualy watching whats going on or just throwing in random comments to make it sound like you know what the hell you're talking about? As for being compared to LeRoc .... words fail me.....

[Lounge Lizard]

Originally posted by Chris
I can enjoy watching Gus but his style is far too 'Leroc-ish' for my own personal taste. Reminds me of Lynn of Blitz (lovely dancer) and Dave of Trinity. In fact you are quite leroc-ish Andy!

I fancy stealing a bounce from, say, Lindy. Not that I can or want to dance Lindy . . . but there are some nice bounces and turns there . . .

Leroc'ish
so please expand
Leroc teachers include
Me
Graham Leclerc
Roi Forbes
David Love
John Eastman

none of us dance anywhere the same - the only common denominater in Leroc is anybody can join....even YOU Chris, but please don't feel tempted our reputation is bad enough already

[Dreadful Scathe]

Theres a lot of LeRoc teachers up here and there was a particular style slightly different to Ceroc. Theres not many regular LeRoc nights up here anymore though - Glasgow the only one ? Someone else will know. Thats the problem with using a general term in a countrywide forum, cries of "what the hell you talking about you gimp?"

[Bill]

Originally posted by Gus
Chris ... are you actualy watching whats going on or just throwing in random comments to make it sound like you know what the hell you're talking about? angry:

............ surely no-one would do that ...............would they.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Leroc'ish
so please expand
Leroc teachers include
Me
Graham Leclerc
Roi Forbes
David Love
John Eastman

none of us dance anywhere the same - the only common denominater in Leroc is anybody can join....even YOU Chris, but please don't feel tempted our reputation is bad enough already

Gotta say that Lynn is definitely nothing like any of those!!

Thank goodness!!

Trampy

[Dan Hudson]

*** are "bouncy" hands??

Am i just stupid

Trampy stay out of this

[Bill]

Originally posted by Dan Hudson
*** are "bouncy" hands??

Am i just stupid

Trampy stay out of this

and are they different from Viktor-flappy-hand circles Viktor with flappy hands ??????

but bouncy hands are obviously .............. well hands that bounce obvious innit................

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Dan Hudson
*** are "bouncy" hands??

Am i just stupid

Trampy stay out of this

Me? Would I say anything? Especially on something that's so obvious anyhow

Trampy

[Bill]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Me? Would I say anything? Especially on something that's so obvious anyhow.

Trampy

hasn't stopped you ion the past

think I should go for bouncy hands or flappy hands when I'm taxi-ing tonight. Could be fun