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Thread: Ceroc Championships 2004

  1. #21
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    Originally posted by Mary
    Listen Pammy, just because you might not find any cockroaches at the Palais eatery doesn't mean you can bring your own in.
    They seem to follow me around don't they Still, some might claim they're not roaches, but large moths

    As for eateries in dance venues, I'm sure the Prawnster would disagree that the food you get in there is top notch. He certainly speeded up a notch or two after consuming the sandwich

  2. #22
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    I think it was two years ago I brought some food with me, and it was consficated at the door, with the assurance that I could collect it on exit. They threw it away instead.

    That, with the aggressive attitude of the staff, used to dealing with drunken hooligans, the bar staff hiding away the free tap water, the apalling toilets, made it a very No-No venue for me. (The event and the attendees make it a yes-yes-yes venue, so I still returned.)

    At some stage TV and richer sponsors are likely to discover the champs, and it will become a big money prestige event. It is in their interest to improve.

    I hope the new management have a better vision and attitude.

  3. #23
    Registered User Debster's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    At some stage TV and richer sponsors are likely to discover the champs, and it will become a big money prestige event.
    You are kidding right?
    You forgot to add Smiley faces...


    Thanks Bradders, It's great to hear the real response as opposed to speculation... so what about the food issue then?

    Oh and BTW - I thought the toilets were good last year... I must have found the refurbished ladies loos.

    Cheers!

  4. #24
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    Really appreciate the posts Bradders and a big thankyou for the considerable amount of effort you and others must have put in.

    It sounds much more promising as a lot of the feedback is being acted on.

    Personally, im not bothered at all about the food issue. I will go out for a main meal anyway as i did at Blackpool. Not a problem.

    Looking forward to the champs now

    And as a bonus i now know what im doing on the saturday night !!!! ...............now wheres my school tie

    ....well, maybe not but does anyone know of a Saturday night dance event the night before?? Would love to meet up with some peeps on the saturday??

  5. #25
    Registered User Mary's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Paul F


    ....well, maybe not but does anyone know of a Saturday night dance event the night before?? Would love to meet up with some peeps on the saturday??
    Check out www.lyndaslist.co.uk that has everything going on this the south east. Or just ask MinnieM (same thing).

    M

  6. #26
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    SORRY THIS IS A BIT LONG.......

    I have had quite a bit of mixed feedback regarding the 'Food Issue'.
    There were posted earlier going on about only burgers and chips being available last but that is just not true.
    I have append the menu from last year belowso you can see it was a balanced and reasonably priced menu.
    In addition people can leave the venue for food. There is a Tesco's just across the road plus loads of cafes and resturants within minutes of the Palais.

    Below is an email I received regarding this issue as discussed on this forum and my reply.

    EMAIL:
    "A recent contribution to the cerocscotland.com/forum website ... which accurately summarises the views of many ..

    "Well unless someone has taken a shotgun to the palais management and sacked all the bouncers, you won't see me back at the Palais.

    I had enough of the place when LeJive used to run their competitions there, but had my arm twisted into going again last year to do a repeat performance of our double trouble routine - more fool me. Making us queue half way up the high street while bouncers search bags confiscating any food or drink was not a great start to the day.....

    A dance competition is an energetic athletic event of significant duration. Any athlete worth their salt would always go to such an event loaded with suitable energy drinks and high energy food. To be told we can't take that crucial nutrition into the venue where the only provided alternative is poor (and very expensive) redbull-imitation and burger and chips is unaccaptable !!!

    Come on Ceroc - if you are going to run a competition, treat it like one and not a night club event where you are trying to pack as many people through the door as possible and then fleece them for all the money in their wallet. If you insist on using the Palais, please give us some reassurance that we will be allowed to take our own food and drink into the venue this year. "

    MY REPLY
    Please find below the menu from the Champs 2003.

    This is a balanced menu and is reasonably priced.

    The suggestion that only greasy burgers were available is totally inaccurate.

    Also all competitors are allowed to leave the venue at any time.

    There are a range of cafes and resturants and shops very close to the venue.

    I was not aware that the Palais were going to do the search and tried in vain to get them to stop and just let people in.

    I totally agree it was annoying and stupid.

    It delayed the start of the event which is the last thing we want as we do try and run our event to the schedule for the benefit of the competitors and spectators.

    The assertion that we made loads of money from the food is also totally false.

    The venue charge us a concession fee of £200 and that is what we charge the caterers.

    Capital gain to Ceroc = NIL.

    Having a food outlet on site is a service to the entrants.

    The main problem with people bringing food and drink into the venue is that they then want to keep their bags with them.

    These are then piled high all around the venue making it even more congested and presenting a potential hazard should there be a fire emergency.

    This is why the venue insist on having all bags put in the cloakroom.

    The cloakroom is provided for free to assist in getting people to deposit their bags in there.

    Another FREE service for the attendees.

    If you or any one else can suggest a suitable affordable alternative venue in London I would be very glad to hear about it.

    I have personally looked at about 10 in the last few months.

    The Grosvner is £50,000 for the day by the way!

    Kind Regards
    David

    Ceroc Championships 2003
    FOOD AVAILABLE ALL DAY
    Menu

    Hot Food

    Beef Burger Bap with Salad £2.00
    Cajun Chicken steak bap with salad £2.00
    Spicy Bean Burger Bap with Salad £2.00
    Lamb & mint sausage, in bread roll with salad £2.00
    Large Vegetarian spring roll with salad £2.00
    Fish Burger in bread roll with salad £2.00
    Jacket Potato with fillings of: £2.50

    Grated Cheese & coleslaw

    Grated Cheese & baked beans

    Chicken Curry
    Side Orders
    French Fries £0.80
    Beaked Beans £0.60

    Relishes
    Tomato Ketchup £0.10
    Mayonnaise £0.10
    Brown Sauce £0.10

    White, Brown & Granary Bread Sandwiches
    Tuna, corn, peppers & mayonnaise £2.00
    Corination chicken & iceburg £2.00
    Egg mayonnaise with watercress £2.00
    Ham, course mustard & iceburg £2.00

    Crisps
    Cheese & onion £0.40
    Plain £0.40
    Salt & vinegar £0.40

    Beverages
    Coffee, de-caf coffee & tea £0.80
    Hot chocolate £0.90
    Herbal & fruit tea £0.70
    Carrot & coriander soup £1.20

    Confectinary
    Mars, Snicker, Kit Kat’s £0.45
    Grain Bars £0.50
    Crisps £0.40

    Fresh Fruit
    Red/Green apples, bananas, oranges £0.35
    Pineapple slice, melon slice £0.35


    END OF EMAIL

    The main problem is bags not food.
    The venue get a bit funny about people bringing drink in because they run the bars.
    We do negotiate cheaper drinks for our event than they would normally charge by the way.
    If people bring their pack lunches they want to keep their bags with them.
    This leads to piles of coats and bags in what is already a tight space. The venue view this as a fire risk and want all bags put in the cloakrooms.
    Last year a pile of coats left on top of a light on the balcony did start to catch fire. It was caught early whilst smoking luckily!!

    We have added a clause in our terms and conditions of hire this year which states :

    Security
    ‘Palais’ shall supply a minimum of 4 security and 1 medic. At least 1 of the security staff will be required to control the queue and initial entry at 10.30am.
    It is agreed that there will be no across the board searching of attendees as they enter the venue. Random searching will take place of individuals chosen at random by the security staff.
    No food or soft drinks will be confiscated

    This means that I, as the hirer will now have the right to stop any excessive searches, which I did not have last year, much to my frustration on the day.

    One last point, the caterers from last year have turned down our offer to return this year because they did not make any money as they were not very busy!!
    So. I am looking at alternatives. Watch this space!
    One alternative would be to make it a picnic area and just supply hot drinks, soup and snacks!!
    What do you think?

    David

  7. #27
    Registered User LilyB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bradders

    Also all competitors are allowed to leave the venue at any time.

    There are a range of cafes and resturants and shops very close to the venue.
    This is all very well if you are either 1) not a competitor, or 2) have incredibly long gaps between the events you have entered. If I remember correctly, many competitors had an hour at most in between rounds/events. This does not give you sufficient time to get changed out of your costume, retrieve your coat & bag from the cloakroom, leave the venue, go to a nearby cafe, order food, eat, return to the Palais, return coat & bag to the cloakroom and change back into your costume in good time for your next round/event!


    . . . The main problem with people bringing food and drink into the venue is that they then want to keep their bags with them. . . . . These are then piled high all around the venue making it even more congested and presenting a potential hazard should there be a fire emergency. . . . . This is why the venue insist on having all bags put in the cloakroom. . . . . The cloakroom is provided for free to assist in getting people to deposit their bags in there. . . . . .This leads to piles of coats and bags in what is already a tight space. The venue view this as a fire risk and want all bags put in the cloakrooms. . . .

    David
    The main reason why many people, especially the women, want to keep their bags with them is quite simply because that is where they keep their costumes, shoes, makeup, tissues, combs/brushes, hairspray, mirrors, pins, etc. which they need to have access to throughout the day. It is totally impractical to expect competitors to queue up at the cloakroom every single time they need to reapply their lipstick! Or to brush their hair, or touch up their eye-shadow, or reapply foundation etc etc . . .

    The excuse that such bags pose a fire hazard is hard to accept. There was no such problem at Blackpool, either at the Winter Gardens last year or at the Tower Ballroom this year. Or at Bristol or Britroc, for that matter.

    LilyB

  8. #28
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    Originally posted by LilyB
    This is all very well if you are either 1) not a competitor, or 2) have incredibly long gaps between the events you have entered.

    It is totally impractical to expect competitors to queue up at the cloakroom every single time they need to reapply their lipstick! Or to brush their hair, or touch up their eye-shadow, or reapply foundation etc etc . . .

    The excuse that such bags pose a fire hazard is hard to accept. There was no such problem at Blackpool, either at the Winter Gardens last year or at the Tower Ballroom this year. Or at Bristol or Britroc, for that matter.

    LilyB

    well said!
    one real saftey risk last year surly must have been the very poor lighting around all the seating areas.

    I appreciate the work which has gone on this year and its much better getting the contact and freedback from HQ. I dont mean to put the cat amongst the pigions but the venue which we use for the scottish competition is a very simple town hall, the dance floor are of which must be aleast 3 x the size of hammersmith. we corner off areas in another room for changing and there are eating areas for poeple to chill out in a bit.

    my point is that do we need a really elaborate venue.
    Blackpool is unique because of the 2 facilities which are available. Unfortunaltey venues like that cant be funded or found everywhere......but fundementaly it is the people who make the atmosphere and decoration of the hall can really specailise the occasion as we try to do in musslebourgh. Perth Sports centre has also been used up here and although it was not an ideal floor it was still fine - Ive danced on far worse and the simple facilities were great. space - showers.

    I am not suggesting that the event gets moved up here at all. Just that perhaps next year similar facilities may be considered somewhere else in England. there must be somthing some where???

    liked the idea of a picnick area this year with hot soup etc. As lilly said it can be difficult to get out. Speaking as half of a couple who has been disqualified before because we could not get into our round in time and get changed for another one. - moan moan

  9. #29
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    I completely agree with Lily about needing to have your bag with you. I note that the cafe sells sandwiches, fruit, crisps, chocolate bars - I guess if you bought one of each you'd be expected to consume it immediately without the need to eat some and put the rest in your bag (in the locker?) or should you queue for food at separate occasions throughout the day as and when you needed the odd bite to keep your energy levels up? Don't forget queing up to get your money out of your bag as well!

    Seriously, people should be encouraged to bring their own food. Perhaps given that people can freely come and go as they please there is no need for caterers in the event. If there is no caterers taking up room, there will be more room for bags That way we can all bring what we want, forget about the lockers and those who want to dine out can do so.

  10. #30
    Registered User Mary's Avatar
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    Just a few more thoughts on this. I like the idea of a snack/chill out area. Personally I think soup and some crusty bread is also a good idea - I can never eat anything bulky during a comp - hence protein bars and glucose. But then you will always get people complaining about the lack of choice etc. - you just can't keep everyone happy.

    One year I tried to use the cloakroom - left my coat there but had to keep my bag in the end as I had nowhere to keep my purse and my cloakroom ticket. Perhaps there should be a ruling about being allowed to keep a sports bag type of thing - when I have come off the floor from competing I need to put on a T-shirt or fleece immediately so I don't get chilled.

    Another thought on reducing the amount of baggage. How about putting a couple of coat rails (with hangars) in the changing areas - there is certainly enough room in the ladies area, and we could leave our costumes/outfits hung up there. Theft seems to be pretty minimal at dance venues as we are mostly an honest lot!! I found this quite useful at the Winter Gardens last year - it means you don't have to keep carting a bag around!! This only wouldn't work if it is still dark in there and you end up wearing someone else's frock!!!!

    For ladies, keeping some kind of bag is essential, for all the reasons that LilyB mentioned, and for the Pammy-ites who like their bag of crisps to nibble on.

    Queueing for the cloakroom one year I found a big problem - we ran out of time and had to abandon our plan to pop out ! Also Fran's experience is what every competitor dreads!

    Still appreciate the efforts being made tho'.

    M

  11. #31
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    Originally posted by bradders
    SORRY THIS IS A BIT LONG.......

    One alternative would be to make it a picnic area and just supply hot drinks, soup and snacks!!
    What do you think?

    David
    Like this idea............... as the others have said, the amount of time available to get out is limited because most of us have friends competing and don't want to miss too much.

    I realise that a lot of bags can be a hazard, partly becuase of the poor lighting upstairs. Though the menu wasn't that bad, as a vegetarian I found it very limited but I did buy something just so I had some energy.

    Rails in the changing area would also be a good idea.

  12. #32
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    OK, point taken Lily, I understand the requirement of keeping a bag and of time constraints.
    When I went to Blackpool I kept my big bag with me and left it on my seat on the balcony when I went to dance.
    It was not a problem because there was soooooo much room.

    We do not have the room at the Palais (I wish we did!)
    It is the venue management that view the piles of bags and coats as a fire risk.
    That is their assessment.
    (I do think putting coats in the cloaks should not be a problem for anyone but we still get piles of them around the venue)

    I also understand the logistical problem of costume changes for different categories.
    Showcase and Team Cab have changing rooms allocated for them so that should not be a problem.
    The time keeping at our event is always pretty spot on so everybody should know when they are competing and should be able to prepare in good time.
    In truth the problem of not having enough time between categories only effects a small number of competitors who enter lots of categories.
    We should be able to work something out for these people once the schedule and heats listing is published (mid April) so they do not have a problem. That is just a matter of communication.
    If you feel there may be a problem, talk to us about it and we can resolve it together.

    I think Marys idea of putting a rail with hangers up in the ladies (and mens changing rooms) is a great idea and one that is totally workable.
    The changing areas will be in different locations this year with loads of light.
    One would hope that it is relatively safe to leave stuff but that cannot be guarenteed.

    And Marys idea of a small knapsack with all you essentials in is also workable, but we get people coming with huge bags that in reality do cause problems.

    The picnic area with limited food idea is growing on me.
    Soup, crusty bread, energy bars, crisps, hot drinks, fruit etc.
    We would have to run it in-house but that should be manageable.
    (I bet people would miss their burgers and chips though!)
    Any other suiggestions as to what you would like to see available on the day food wise?

    Getting back to Frans point about do we need such an elaborate venue. One of the the main criteria we look for in a venue is the balcony which does increase the viewing capacity.
    For instance we could not run this event at Hammersmith which has a huge dance floor, but that is all it has, no veiwing capacity or much else.
    We have a couple of ideas about how to inprove the veiwing capacity this year, which we hope will increase everybodies enjoyment of the day.

    There have been a few good workable ideas coming out of this thread. I like it!

    David

  13. #33
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    It would not place too much onus to have someone to regularly patrol the venue looking out for obstructive baggage, and for all crew to be on the lookout for it. We must be safe.

    I went through seven shirt changes last year during the event. That would be 16 visits to the cloakroom. Multiply that by attendees ....

    We could have an "at your own risk" storage shelving areas. They could be video monitored. There is room. I would risk someone stealing a bag full of shirts.

  14. #34
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    Put a leaflet in with the tickets. Suggest that people bring 2 bags - one for the day and another for the evening.

    Storage racks and rails are a great idea. The only reason so many bags are lying around on chairs & the floor etc is that we have nowhere else to put them.

    Another improvement would be more lighting in the seating areas during the day. It was so dark last year it was depressing.

  15. #35
    Registered User Jayne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mary
    I had nowhere to keep my purse and my cloakroom ticket.
    Mary,

    I thought that the reason why we have a man following us about is that we can use them as a handbag? Surely I'm not the only one who does this?

    J

  16. #36
    Registered User Mary's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jayne
    Mary,

    I thought that the reason why we have a man following us about is that we can use them as a handbag? Surely I'm not the only one who does this?

    J
    Nice idea. If only they would follow. Tony and I rarely see each other from one end of the day to the next!!!

    M

  17. #37
    Registered User Jayne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mary
    Nice idea. If only they would follow. Tony and I rarely see each other from one end of the day to the next!!!

    M
    You need to upgrade to a better model!!!

    J

  18. #38
    Registered User Mary's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jayne
    You need to upgrade to a better model!!!

    J


    Are there any???

    M

  19. #39
    Registered User Jayne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mary
    Are there any???
    Have a wee look around - you never know what you might find...

    J

  20. #40
    Registered User Mary's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jayne
    Have a wee look around - you never know what you might find...

    J
    Everytime I look around all I find is spiders crawling out of the woodwork!!

    No, this is getting just too absurd.

    Back on thread. Thanks Bradders, it sounds like it all could come together quite effectively.

    M

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