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Thread: Crew Loyalty

  1. #21
    Registered User Jon's Avatar
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    I taxi for 2 ceroc franchises and at both there hasn't been any formal training for taxi dancers. There's been the occasional sit down and chat about new stuff etc but thats all. And to be honest I dont think the majority of taxi dancers require any training.

    For me its getting to know the venue mangers, other crew and helping to build a friendly venue that makes it worth while.
    Last edited by Jon; 28th-February-2004 at 07:12 PM.

  2. #22
    Registered User Jon's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Chicky
    There is however, a competitor who has banned all their crew from attending our venues. If they are 'caught' they are fired from their position, and 'banned'. Nobody likes to be restricted or told what to do.
    Haven't heard about this yet, but for me I do what I want when I want. I go to most venues in the south east at some time and I encourage people I meet to goto other venues not just the ones I taxi at and certainly not just the ones in the same franchise.
    Last edited by Jon; 28th-February-2004 at 07:10 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Re: What do you get for taxiing?

    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    A lot of people would have paid £35 for a less intensive version of that training day. ~Snip~ In general, at the moment, it is a for love, not money, sort of business.
    Good points - and I don't really think there's much wrong with the way it is. However I was interested to know what goes on elsewhere.
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you get for taxiiing?

    I asked if Gus was trying to spread dissent in the Ceroc ranks again.
    Originally posted by Gus
    Nope ... just pure observation of being part of the Ceroc Franchisee network for a number of years and knowing a lot of taxi dancers and franchisees personaly, both within Blitz, Ceroc and independants. Whats your asssessment based on
    Your use of the word "exploit" and broadcasting the free admission at Blitz. The use of again spills over from another thread when you asked why the CTA did not offer teacher training to anyone willing to pay for it. With all that experience you should know that Ceroc teacher training is very much "on the job", with the sessions at HQ only a part of it. I think you are a mischief maker, trying to conceal the fact with humour and smiles. I think that you owe a lot to Ceroc.

    I believe that you now work for Blitz, and claim to be devils advocate, so logically, Blitz would be ... Hmm,

    Ceroc franchises vary. Ceroc Central is very sucessful for good reasons, and their ethos is one of them. Their taxi dancers want to taxi, they are not in it for profit, and I think that comes across to the beginners. Other franchises I do not know enough about.

  5. #25
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you get for taxiiing?

    ODA - Ahhh ... another live one has bitten the hook ... once more into battle

    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    I asked if Gus was trying to spread dissent in the Ceroc ranks again. Your use of the word "exploit" and broadcasting the free admission at Blitz.
    And .... I also made a comment that I regarded Blitz crew training as wholly inadaquate (PLEASE learn to read posts ...). I thought I'd made the point that there is a fair amount of variation across ALL dance organisations. I dont know anyone who does it perfectly. I've heard some very impressive things about the Mo'Jive organisation but that was from someone with a natural bias .... I'd love to hear from anyone on the Forum who has a view because on the limited info I've heard, they seem to do a lot of things very professionaly.

    Can I jut state categorically ... FOR THE LAST TIME ... I'm not anti-Ceroc. I will (and do) raise any issue I have with ANY dance orgnanisation. as Ceroc has a high profile the issues are staistically more likely to be Ceroc concerned ... but I only refer to facts .... not just malicious rumour. You seem to have an issue with it ... "just build a bridge and get over it"

    The use of again spills over from another thread when you asked why the CTA did not offer teacher training to anyone willing to pay for it. With all that experience you should know that Ceroc teacher training is very much "on the job", with the sessions at HQ only a part of it. I think you are a mischief maker, trying to conceal the fact with humour and smiles.
    If you're commenting that the training is on the job ... HOW?? Once I was trained, and this goes for all the teachers I now in my area ... the teachers were left to it. If thats different in other areas fine ... but dont make sweeping statements based on your experience of just one area. There are four big franchisees (I think) .. Scotland, Central, Metro and Virginia's ... they have resousces other franchisees can only dream about.

    I think that you owe a lot to Ceroc.
    UGGHHHH??? Spoken like a true believer. I spent over #10k on setting up three clubs ... sweated tears supporting the clubs with no teacher support from Ceroc, ended up nearly destroying my own business and suffering from nervous exhaustion .... sold the club for half what it was worth and then got BANNED from it ... still get hassled by HQ ..... and I would then owe Ceroc what??? (Answers on the back of a postcard please)

    I believe that you now work for Blitz, and claim to be devils advocate, so logically, Blitz would be ... Hmm,
    FACT: I DONT work for Blitz! I work for Gorgeous Gus Dance and through them I do contract teaching for whoever pays me (bit of a Mercenary) Pay the money and I'll teach for anyone .... I've also taugt for Ceroc clubs in the past but dont tell Ceroc HQ 'cause they get a bit uptight about bthings like that

    If you are calling my inpartiality into question ... then pal I think you are the last person on the planet to make such a comment. Balance of opinion is that you are a Ceroc evangalist ... no problem with that but I'm not keen on having the "Ceroc is Good, All else are Bad" mantra shoved down my throat by someone who doesnt know whats really going on. At least when Will has a go at me he uses something called facts ... try them ... they can come in usefull.

    Ceroc franchises vary. Ceroc Central is very sucessful for good reasons, and their ethos is one of them. Their taxi dancers want to taxi, they are not in it for profit, and I think that comes across to the beginners. Other franchises I do not know enough about.
    As stated above, Ceroc Central is one of the most proffessional oragnisations I've come across. I think that many other dance organisation could learn from them. Phil Roberts is proof that a profesional manager can apply business techniques succefully. I think he throughougly deserves the succes he has.

    The reason I started this thread was not a CEROC v OTHERS attack ... it was to open a debate about the responsibilitie of/to crew. This has highlighted Chicklets situation where someone allegedly is being a complete ass. Is that so bad to raise as an issue

    Anyway ... sorry for the rant ... do I get the Andy McG award for bit between teeth
    Last edited by Gus; 29th-February-2004 at 12:19 PM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you get for taxiiing?

    Originally posted by Gus

    This has highlighted Chicklet's situation
    Chicklet doesn't have a "situation" Gus - I think you'll find it was Chicky who posted.
    "If you rebel against high heels, take care to do so in a very smart hat.'' George Bernard Shaw

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you get for taxiiing?

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Gus
    If you're commenting that the training is on the job ... HOW??
    In Ceroc Central trainee teachers serve their time as demos, and have coaching sessions from experienced teachers. They move up to doing the beginners class and getting feedback from experienced teachers.
    Once I was trained, and this goes for all the teachers I now in my area ... the teachers were left to it. If thats different in other areas fine ... but dont make sweeping statements based on your experience of just one area.
    Twice a year Michaela advertises the Hammersmith freestyle, telling us that there is a Ceroc teacher update that Saturday, and that she, and many other Ceroc teachers are likely to be at the freestyle in the evening. There is at least that level of ongoing training. I have often seen teachers attending venues as dancers and talking and practising together, so they are not totally isolated.

    I am aware that personel, venues and franchises vary. I do regularly specify that my main experience is of Ceroc Central. I danced a lot in Ceroc Kent, which seemed to be extremely well run. and I have danced in a wide range of MJ formats, and enjoyed every evening.

    UGGHHHH??? Spoken like a true believer. I spent over #10k on setting up three clubs ... sweated tears supporting the clubs with no teacher support from Ceroc, ended up nearly destroying my own business and suffering from nervous exhaustion .... sold the club for half what it was worth and then got BANNED from it ... still get hassled by HQ ..... and I would then owe Ceroc what??? (Answers on the back of a postcard please) Apart from remarking that what it is worth is what you can sell it for, I was not aware of those circumstances, and sorry to hear that you have had such a hard time. I retract my remark, and apologise for it.

    FACT: I DONT work for Blitz! I work for Gorgeous Gus Dance and through them I do contract teaching hair splitting?

    If you are calling my inpartiality into question ... then pal I think you are the last person on the planet to make such a comment. Balance of opinion is that you are a Ceroc evangalist ... no problem with that but I'm not keen on having the "Ceroc is Good, All else are Bad" mantra shoved down my throat
    I believe MJ is good.
    I HAVE NEVER SAID ALL ELSE IS BAD.
    I know nothing about Blitz, 0r Mo'Jive, or most others. If they are doing something better then I am keen to learn about it, and will advocate it for all MJ organisations. I would like to learn more of the Blitz taxi dncer reward scheme. I doubt that it is taxi once and get free admission to all events forever, and I am not implying that you said that, but I would like to see the small print. If the Blitz scheme is as generous as suggested then I will owe you an apology on that too.

    by someone who doesnt know whats really going on. At least when Will has a go at me he uses something called facts ... try them ... they can come in usefull.
    I can only comment on what I know, and try to learn more, and this forum serves both purposes.

    As stated above, Ceroc Central is one of the most proffessional oragnisations I've come across. I think that many other dance organisation could learn from them. Phil Roberts is proof that a profesional manager can apply business techniques succefully. I think he throughougly deserves the succes he has.

    The reason I started this thread was not a CEROC v OTHERS attack ... it was to open a debate about the responsibilitie of/to crew. This has highlighted Chicklets situation where someone allegedly is being a complete ass. Is that so bad to raise as an issue

    I also hold the view that asses are for kicking, and support you in that. As far as I am concerned staff can spend their free time and wages as they like. If they are supporting others then I, if I were a manager, I would wonder where I was falling short, and try to find out why.

    It is not just staff that go through this. I have had a venue manager right in my face because I went past his to go to a rival organisation.

    Anyway ... sorry for the rant ... do I get the Andy McG award for bit between teeth
    Yup, and it is a bit of me. Once again, apologies for the "you owe" comment.

  8. #28
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you get for taxiiing?

    Originally posted by Gus
    do I get the Andy McG award for bit between teeth
    Only if I can have the ODA award for 'worm dangling'

  9. #29
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you get for taxiiing?

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by bigdjiver
    Twice a year Michaela advertises the Hammersmith freestyle, telling us that there is a Ceroc teacher update that Saturday...... There is at least that level of ongoing training.
    Agreed. The annual update is a usefull focus for learning new moves ... but (unless it has changed in the last two years) thats all it is. It doesn't avtualy teach you to teach any better. I know things have improved but I used to learn more moves by doing the dance weekenders and courses by N&N and Viktor than I ever did at the update. However, in the terms of your original statement, its a training opportunity I'd forgotten about (old age and all that)


    ........I know nothing about Blitz, 0r Mo'Jive, or most others.... I doubt that it is taxi once and get free admission to all events forever, and I am not implying that you said that, but I would like to see the small print. If the Blitz scheme is as generous as suggested then I will owe you an apology on that too.
    I'm not sure that 'generous' is the phrase I'd use, more 'practical'. It helps to ensure that nyour better dancers dance around a bit more. Some crew only work one week in three, mt Ceroc crew had to do every other week. I think its a pretty good incentive ... but thats only part of the package so I think you have to look at it all as a whole. To clarify my earliers statements ... I'm not saying the Blitz package is the best ... just stating what it is.

    Once again, apologies for the "you owe" comment.
    Very decent of you old chap. No need to do so ... everyone has a point of view and given my earlier posts I can probably understand how you came to that conclusion ... though its very much appreciated. I think it is equallt incumbent in me to apologise for the tone of my responbse .... nothing personal ... just letting off steam.

    At the end of the day, we all want the same .... more people enjoying MJ at better clubs and events. Through debate and discussion I think we all end up with a better understanding of what is possible and what should change.

  10. #30
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you get for taxiiing?

    Originally posted by Gus
    usefull avtualy nyour mt earliers its equallt responbse
    Okie. I vote that we all club together and buy Gus a spelling and typing course for his next birthday!!

    When I started here he was bad, but I think that he's actually getting worse!!

    Steve

  11. #31
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you get for taxiiing?

    Originally posted by TheTramp
    Okie. I vote that we all club together and buy Gus a spelling and typing course for his next birthday!!
    Nahh ... what I needed was some Red Bull and someone else to do my VAT return ... which should have been in on Friday. Anyone know any firendly Customs and Excise people (please refrain from making any obvious comments on that )

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you get for taxiiing?

    Originally posted by Gus
    Anyone know any firendly Customs and Excise people (please refrain from making any obvious comments on that )
    I was late with a VAT return once - due to a postal strike

    HM Customs and Excise wrote saying they had put me on probation, and if I did it again they would fine me. I 'phoned to make my excuses and they started talking about a guillotine, which was a bit scary I think they meant it was something that came down at the end of the day the return was due - but they do use scary language don't they...

    You can appeal but I don't think 'practicing for Blackpool' is going to be acceptable

    Don't be late again, you naughty, naughty boy

  13. #33
    Registered User Alfie's Avatar
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    Re:-Blitz Crew

    I am on the crew of a Blitz venue in Birmingham. The crew card we are issued enables any crew member to visit any venue, any time.
    This encourages all Blitz crew members to support all Blitz events which can only be good for the company. I think this really makes you a member of the organisation not just a helper at a venue.
    So if I wished to travel I could dance 6 nights a week for free in return for being a Blitz Jiver once a fortnight. YIPPPEEEEEE

  14. #34
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    Re: Re:-Blitz Crew

    Originally posted by Alfie
    I am on the crew of a Blitz venue in Birmingham. The crew card we are issued enables any crew member to visit any venue, any time.
    This encourages all Blitz crew members to support all Blitz events which can only be good for the company. I think this really makes you a member of the organisation not just a helper at a venue.
    So if I wished to travel I could dance 6 nights a week for free in return for being a Blitz Jiver once a fortnight. YIPPPEEEEEE
    There must be some that want to taxi for the perks, rather for the love of it. I would guess that Blitz is on the lookout for such opportunists, and selects and monitors with care. If that is the case then my guess is that they have the better policy. Having a hard working core of good sociable dancers that circulate a lot should be very good for the organisation.

  15. #35
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    Re: Re: Re:-Blitz Crew

    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    There must be some that want to taxi for the perks, rather for the love of it. I would guess that Blitz is on the lookout for such opportunists, and selects and monitors with care.
    And is this a problem???

    Surely the reasons why people taxi are less important than how good a job they do. After all, I doubt that very many people would go to any sort of job, if they weren't being paid to do it. What makes taxi-dancing any different?

    If someone is doing it for the perks only, but is doing it in a capable, friendly and professional manner, then I don't see that there would be anything to worry about at all. I certainly don't see why such people would be labelled 'opportunists'.

    Trampy

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    Gus, this seems a subject close to your heart. I was wondering, did your problems with Ceroc HQ start because you were teaching for other organisations whilst a Ceroc franchisee?
    Others have reported that Ceroc used to consider this a no-no.

  17. #37
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    Gus, I was wondering, did your problems with Ceroc HQ start because you were teaching for other organisations whilst a Ceroc franchisee?
    Hmmmm ... think that could be slander, or is it libel ... what do you think Trampy?

    Nope ... didnt do that. The details of my "problems with Ceroc HQ" are between me and Ceroc HQ ... but sufficeth to say that I was the one who finished the relationship ... not the other way round. My resignation from the CTA was prompted by the resignation of a number of key instructors who I regarded as being leading lights (including Viktor).

    Curious ... not quite sure how your enquiry is relevant to the debate ... but always glad to contribute .......

    Hope to see you at Blackppol to further the debate over a Becks or several

  18. #38
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    Originally posted by Gus
    Hmmmm ... think that could be slander, or is it libel ... what do you think Trampy?
    Ummm. It's libel. Slander is spoken, libel is written.

    If it's either of course. Which I'm not saying it is. Or isn't. I think that you need a lawyer

    Steve

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    Just to get back on thread...

    One of my friends who used to taxi spoke with me recently. She said that a local organiser had sacked her and 2 other, unpaid, staff, in writing, for not working hard enough. Understandably she was very upset as, at least to me, she seems to work very hard at taxiing

    And now to the controlling bit. She was told that if she didn't bad mouth this organiser she wouldn't be banned from his classes. She hasn't and I don't think she would - but that hasn't stopped me..

    ..obviously...




    Just recently I've been looking at the business model for MJ classes. There is money to be made if you have loads of classes but the market is so full of players it is a bit like the 'ice cream wars' in Glasgow.


    And why was I looking at the business model

    Just kidding..

    ..probably...

  20. #40
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    Me: Gus, I was wondering, did your problems with Ceroc HQ start because you were teaching for other organisations whilst a Ceroc franchisee?

    Originally posted by Gus
    Hmmmm ... think that could be slander, or is it libel ... what do you think Trampy?
    It never occured to me that the way I phrased that question was making any allegation whatsoever. It was not intended.

    Nope ... didnt do that.

    Curious ... not quite sure how your enquiry is relevant to the debate ... but always glad to contribute .......



    The debate was about crew "loyalty". You said you taught on contract to other organisations. It has been reported on this forum that there is a bit of friction between you and Ceroc HQ. I just wondered if you had been contracting your services prior to your split. I could imagine HQ getting heavy about that would be an incentive to pack up. It seemed a reasonable question in the circumstances. No allegation intended.

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