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Thread: ok who stinks

  1. #1
    Registered User Missy D's Avatar
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    ok who stinks

    Just got in from dancing I now stink of 10 different aftershaves have the smell of body odour on my shoulders and can still smell garlic from the last man i danced with. Why do i bother having a shower. Maybe tomorrow i will go to the gym, not shower have a curry not clean my teeth and then go dancing seems all the rage here in London.

  2. #2
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: ok who stinks

    Originally posted by Missy D
    Just got in from dancing I now stink of 10 different aftershaves have the smell of body odour on my shoulders and can still smell garlic from the last man i danced with. Why do i bother having a shower. Maybe tomorrow i will go to the gym, not shower have a curry not clean my teeth and then go dancing seems all the rage here in London.
    Where was that? If Hipsters, then you had the misfortune to be dancing with the wrong blokes.

    With stinkers, yankers and perverts, it's very simple....

    Just say no !!

    Chris

  3. #3
    Registered User Missy D's Avatar
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    Yes twas hipsters

  4. #4
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Missy D
    Yes twas hipsters
    Well on behalf of those of us blokes who don't eat garlic before dancing, don't use a million gallons of smellies, do shower, do clean teeth, wear clean clothes, change shirts, etc, etc, all I can ask is...

    ... please don't give up the search for us.

    Chris, death to stinkers, yankers and perverts.

  5. #5
    Registered User Divissima's Avatar
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    Missy D - hope to get to meet you next time you're at Hipsters. It's always so difficult to meet the other women, though, don't you find?

    I had to employ emergency tactics tonight in order to avoid dancing with a stinker. Nice man, but *phew*...

    It'a real struggle to grab the fragrant/good 'uns on a Tuesday night - I practically had to chase Chris half the length of a room to get a dance

  6. #6
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Divissima
    I practically had to chase Chris half the length of a room to get a dance
    Sorry I didn't see you earlier... I was looking for you...


  7. #7
    Registered User Divissima's Avatar
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    's all right.... keeps me fit
    It was soooooooooooooooo worth the chase

  8. #8
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Divissima
    It was soooooooooooooooo worth the chase
    .......

    And for me

  9. #9
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    Re: Re: ok who stinks

    Originally posted by ChrisA
    .

    With stinkers, yankers and perverts, it's very simple....

    Just say no !!

    Chris
    But you can't always tell until you've already said yes!

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Divissima
    It's always so difficult to meet the other women, though, don't you find?

    But thoroughly worthwhile when you do. I don't think I hardly spoke to any of the women for the first 6 months, it was like one half of the room had been blacked out! I didn't want it to be that way, it was just a product of the Ceroc set-up. I find sitting in those endless lines a great opportunity for some light chat. And if you don't meet the women where could you get the opportunity for those "Is it just me or do you also find............" conversations which can be so reassuring! What do men talk to each other about at Ceroc, I wonder? (Do I really want to know the answer to this question? Nooooooo!)

  11. #11
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: ok who stinks

    Originally posted by jivecat
    But you can't always tell until you've already said yes!
    True, but you don't have to put up with a whole dance, though.

    I truly believe that a sea-change in dance-floor culture, where the girls didn't put up with as much stinking, yanking and perving would bring about some very positive benefits:

    - the girls who get a big shock when they turn up as beginners and get perved at, never to return, wouldn't be put off. And yes, there are quite a few of these.

    - the offenders would be more likely to get the message more quickly if people just didn't dance with the whiffy and/or pervy ones

    In general, I believe that MJ culture is far too tolerant, accepting even, of weird people whose behaviour would not be acceptable in other contexts.

    I've talked about this on other threads, but there is an implied contract on the dancefloor, that the standard "you should accept when asked to dance" does not really allow for. It goes like this:

    If a guy asks you to dance, ladies, and you graciously accept, then he shall not:

    - stink
    - pull your arms off or dislocate your shoulders
    - feel you up


    If a guy does any of these things, he's broken the implied contract, and you shouldn't feel you have to dance with him.

    Chris

  12. #12
    B.T.C.
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    Unfortunate for the men ( and women) who might suffer from BO or excessive sweat production but most, I would hope, will have showered before the class - but some have to come straight from work and so washing and changing can be a problem.

    This has been discussed on a few threads and some tactful 'advice' seems the best way forward.I don't use deodorants, anti-perspirants or after shave and am lucky I suppose that I don't sweat a great deal - except in very hot and poorly ventilated rooms.

    Some dancers may be unaware of their 'problem' but as we've said before - there's a difference between dancing with someone at the end of the evening who is dripping and sweaty after a long night and someone who arrives already hot, sweaty and rather smelly.

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: ok who stinks

    Originally posted by ChrisA

    In general, I believe that MJ culture is far too tolerant, accepting even, of weird people whose behaviour would not be acceptable in other contexts.

    Chris

    Would you be promoting an intolerant culture then? I'm beginning to feel nervous already!

    While I'm not denying that the 3 cardinal sins which you mention do exist within the Ceroc world I think it's essential to keep a sense of proportion about it.

    1. Smells. Subjective, I know, but I think the vast majority of people smell O.K. I've certainly had the experience of going home smelling of 10 different types of aftershave etc but whenever the subject has come under discussion it seems to me that ladies laugh ruefully about it and dismiss it as being part of the errm, magic of Ceroc. I certainly wouldn't want people to be hounded
    because they forgot their deodorant/ couldn't find a clean shirt/ had a curry at lunchtime. Ceroc is an athletic pursuit, I expect people to sweat and am not offended by it. In 2.5 years of dancing I can only think of 1 or 2 occasions where someone smelled bad enough as to justify the kind of exclusion tactics which you advocate.

    2. Pervs. Ditto- I just haven't found it a problem, though maybe I just ain't worth perving at (Aaww!). The subtleties and degrees of perving have been discussed on another thread but I can only think of 2 occasions where I thought the mark had been wildly overstepped and even then I felt amused rather than threatened.

    3. Yankers. Now I think the incidence of this is a bit higher. Possibly as high as one per evening of Ceroc. But if I like the bloke as a person I would still be inclined to be tolerant. And even if dancing with such people is uncomfortable/not enjoyable I've never suffered any lasting harm from it - it's only one dance after all. I'd welcome suggestions from other ladies on how to tactfully deal with leaders who do this out of ignorance as I think this would be a more constructive approach to the problem.

    Dance floors are scary enough places as it is; personally, I support Ceroc's etiquette mantra that you should accept all offers of dances, although a polite and friendly refusal with good reason would be acceptable. As for walking off the floor in the middle of a dance I think that would be the gravest discourtesy only justifiable in extreme circumstances. Feeling somebody up would come under this category, forgetting to put on deodorant certainly wouldn't.

    If MJ is too tolerant & accepting then long may it continue!

  14. #14
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok who stinks

    Originally posted by jivecat
    I certainly wouldn't want people to be hounded
    because they forgot their deodorant/ couldn't find a clean shirt/ had a curry at lunchtime.
    I'm not advocating hounding anyone.
    In 2.5 years of dancing I can only think of 1 or 2 occasions where someone smelled bad enough as to justify the kind of exclusion tactics which you advocate.
    Sure - I'm not saying it's common for it to be that bad. All I'm saying is that if it is, you shouldn't feel obliged to dance with them.
    2. Pervs. Ditto- I just haven't found it a problem, though maybe I just ain't worth perving at (Aaww!).
    (snip)
    the mark had been wildly overstepped and even then I felt amused rather than threatened.
    The pervs target the new beginners and the younger girls - who tend to be among the less confident ones. I assure you the effect is not amusement.

    Again, it's not frequent, but a couple of pervs hanging around at a venue can do a lot of damage. Again, all I'm suggesting is that ladies shouldn't feel obliged to dance with anyone they feel is creepy.

    3. Yankers. Now I think the incidence of this is a bit higher. Possibly as high as one per evening of Ceroc. But if I like the bloke as a person I would still be inclined to be tolerant.
    Again - totally agree. I'm not talking so much about the guys who aren't very experienced and occasionally pull you awkwardly. I get pulled about all the time by ladies in the same category - and I'll still dance happily with most of them. I'm talking more about the ones that are experienced enough to know better, yet think leading is about forcing.

    Someone quite close to me had her ribs bruised quite badly by one such - it took a month to recover.

    Again, all I'm saying is that you shouldn't feel obliged to dance with them. Dance should be fun, not where you run the gauntlet of injury just by accepting a dance.

    As for walking off the floor in the middle of a dance I think that would be the gravest discourtesy only justifiable in extreme circumstances. Feeling somebody up would come under this category, forgetting to put on deodorant certainly wouldn't.
    I think we probably don't disagree on any of this - maybe you've just read more into my post than I actually said.

    My take on this comes from knowing of quite a few girls who were turned permanently off Ceroc by pervs that hit on them and grossed them out on their first night, by yankers who apply so much force that they hurt people, and by a very few stinkers that make me feel nauseous if they're nearby - and I'm not even close enough to be dancing with them.

    I have witnessed so many ladies with the fixed "grin and bear it" look on their faces, followed by the relief when it's over, who seem to feel that they have to even accept a second dance with the same person.

    All I'm saying is, there is no stigma in declining to dance in those circumstances.

    Chris

  15. #15
    Registered User Divissima's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jivecat:
    But thoroughly worthwhile when you do. I don't think I hardly spoke to any of the women for the first 6 months, it was like one half of the room had been blacked out! I didn't want it to be that way, it was just a product of the Ceroc set-up. I find sitting in those endless lines a great opportunity for some light chat.
    I couldn't agree more - it is great to get to know the other ladies. I only really started making progress on this when I went to a ceroc venue where loads of us went on for a drink after the end of a night. Kent House is a great place for this because there are comfy booths for sitting and chatting when not involved in freestyle. And I'm always accosting other ladies to ask where they got their lovely tops/shoes...

    What do men talk to each other about at Ceroc, I wonder? (Do I really want to know the answer to this question? Nooooooo!)
    The mind boggles! I'm thinking it probably isn't tops 'n' shoes - perhaps cars...ipod...football...
    Only kidding, guys

  16. #16
    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Well, fresh sweat doesn't smell.

    Personally I don't think it takes too much effort to be reasonably fragrant for dancing. Avoid the lasagne / curry at lunch. Minimum effort to change at least a shirt/top. If you have to go directly from work then it isn't difficult to get a brief wash either at work or at the venue's facilities. If even that's too difficult to arrange, then deowipes / baby wet ones

    I remember one venue that used to occasionally suggest the virtues of soap and water in it's newsletters

    SpinDr.

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    Registered User JamesGeary's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: ok who stinks

    Originally posted by ChrisA

    In general, I believe that MJ culture is far too tolerant, accepting even, of weird people whose behaviour would not be acceptable in other contexts.
    ODA commentary >

    So you would rather go from the

    'you have to dance with anyone who asks you'
    culture that is so promoted, to the

    'only dance with people you want to dance with'

    culture.


    It then depends on what critieria you use for selection and to what standard you demand.

    Everyone smells slightly, everyone has poor things they do with respect dance kinesthetics (especially beginners), some people don't provide any resistance through the arms, and everyone has different ranges of body distance they feel comfortable, some people have dance backgrounds that mean they do things funny, some look funny, often people dress badly, some people don't even put gel in their hair. Its more painful on my eyes than your nose.

    Its only fun when you're on one side of the fence. Change the standards and its no fun at all.

  18. #18
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok who stinks

    Originally posted by JamesGeary
    So you would rather go from the

    'you have to dance with anyone who asks you'
    culture that is so promoted, to the

    'only dance with people you want to dance with'

    culture.
    No, I would not.

    And you're taking me out of the context of the rest of the post, which as I've now explained at some length is about not feeling obliged to dance in certain relatively extreme circumstances. It is not about some draconian alternative reality not invented by me.

    When I talk about the MJ world being too accepting, I am talking about the difficulty ladies (mostly) have in avoiding the people that make for a particularly unpleasant time out there.

    It would be no less welcoming towards the vast majority, to be completely intolerant of the real extremes.

    James, with all respect (and just a little envy ), you get to dance with the cream of MJ dancers wherever you go. You're stronger than most of the people you dance with, so you can more easily limit the effects of the lady yankers, if indeed you dance with any of them. And you are confident enough, I have no doubt, to know exactly how to handle any uninvited female grincers out there.

    So I find this just a touch rich coming from you

    Chris
    Last edited by ChrisA; 18th-February-2004 at 02:23 PM.

  19. #19
    Registered User JamesGeary's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok who stinks

    Originally posted by ChrisA
    ...to be completely intolerant of the real extremes...
    I still read your post as 'dance with who you want to dance with'.

    Too much perfume annoys the hell out of me, but many people get annoyed if there is too little. Too little resistance frustrates me, but some people get annoyed at too much. Unbelievably bad dress sense irritates me, but reasonable people dont care.

    What you call extremes is dependant on the mind of the person doing the calling. Hang around Calcutta in India for a few months then come back here, hehehe. Everyone'll smell gorgeous.

    I guess you have a point, its not about one persons alternative draconian reality, but what the majority thinks, and its unreasonable to expect everyone to become more tolerant. And impossible.

    Maybe we could do like the Roman senate used to do, and once a year everyone votes on who they don't like the most, and they get exiled for a year.

    Rich James
    Last edited by JamesGeary; 18th-February-2004 at 02:39 PM.

  20. #20
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok who stinks

    Originally posted by JamesGeary
    What you call extremes is dependant on the mind of the person doing the calling.
    Well of course, this is true, and we all exercise some level of "dance with who you want to dance with".

    Personally I exercise very little in the way of exclusion. I spend much of my time dancing with beginners, and it's exceptionally unusual for me to turn anyone down if they ask me to dance.

    Examples of what I'd call extremes (from the recent past) are:

    - a bloke in his 50s pushing up against and rubbing his groin persistently against a 19 year old girl's bum, leaving her shaking and reducing her to tears in the process. (Note: even when brought up about this said effectively "I see others doing it, so why shouldn't it be Ok for me to?")

    - another bloke (an experienced dancer) forcing a lady so UCP that her ribs were bruised and took a month to recover. (Note: this individual has been banned from numerous Ceroc venues.)

    - another bloke who stank so badly that the air around his chair at the side of the dance floor was still horrible even minutes after he was no longer there. And dancing near him made me feel physically sick.

    One last time: all I'm saying is that ladies should not feel obliged to dance with such people.

    Chris

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