Ceroc Champs 2004

[Gus]

Originally posted by David Franklin
The more "serious" competitors over here have generally used Blackpool as a trial run for the Ceroc champs
Dave

Sorry (well not really) ... the following is a strictly NON-ODA comment

What a load of co**lers!

The "serious" competitors go to the UK Champs at Blackpool. Some of them may also go to the Ceroc champs! BIG difference ... if you want to get into the real world and ascertain who the common populance think is a more importnt championship .... ask around.

If I'm overreacting please let me know (won't you Will ) but I still feel that there is an undeserved smugness about the Ceroc champs. I just can't figure those who assume that its the premier competiton.

[David Franklin]

Originally posted by Gus
Sorry (well not really) ... the following is a strictly NON-ODA comment

What a load of co**lers!

The "serious" competitors go to the UK Champs at Blackpool. Some of them may also go to the Ceroc champs! BIG difference ... if you want to get into the real world and ascertain who the common populance think is a more importnt championship .... ask around.

To be honest, I do think you're overreacting. But it seems several other people have misinterpreted what I wrote, so I guess I'm at fault.

"Warm-up" was probably a bad choice of words. For a variety of factors; history, the fact that there's no restriction on entries at Blackpool, the various calender dates - people are much likelier to perform a "new" routine at Blackpool than at Ceroc. They're also much more likely to perform a routine that's "not quite ready" at Blackpool. And so, many people will say things like "I'm hoping to do Blackpool, but it won't be really polished until the Ceroc champs" (and I'm talking about people who have placed and won here). Very very few people create a new routine between Blackpool and the Ceroc champs. In that sense Blackpool is still a "warm up" - even though it is now the premier event as well.

Again, you see this in other areas. Can't remember exactly when it was, but there were two big athletics champs were only a few weeks apart (Europeans and Commonwealth, perhaps). The first was "the big one", but people found they weren't as ready as they'd hoped, and readily said the first would be good preparation for the second.

As for which in the "real world" is more important - I would have thought by numbers more people know about the Ceroc champs than the C2D ones. OK, I'm in London and I'd expect a bit of bias, but a lot of Cerocers I know haven't even heard of the C2D competition. I'd agree that C2D is probably more prestigious amongst the competitors, and it's certainly the competition I'd rather win. But the average punter? Not so sure.

To put it another way before you jump down my throat. C2D certainly deserves to be the premier competition. In my view it's better in pretty much every respect than the Ceroc competition. But I'm not sure it has won the battle for "hearts and minds" amongst the average jiver yet. Winning mindshare does take time and publicity, and Ceroc isn't keen on providing publicity to its competitors.

If I'm overreacting please let me know (won't you Will ) but I still feel that there is an undeserved smugness about the Ceroc champs. I just can't figure those who assume that its the premier competiton.

My previous post obviously was desparately unclear if you think I have any degree of smugness about the Ceroc champs! Frankly, I think the Ceroc champs are a bit of a mess, and rapidly losing a lot of credibility. I'm not impressed by the venue, the way competitors and spectators are treated, or the judging. [I will say they are excellent at scheduling though].

Dave

[Bill]

Originally posted by David Franklin
As for which in the "real world" is more important - I would have thought by numbers more people know about the Ceroc champs than the C2D ones. OK, I'm in London and I'd expect a bit of bias, but a lot of Cerocers I know haven't even heard of the C2D competition. I'd agree that C2D is probably more prestigious amongst the competitors, and it's certainly the competition I'd rather win. But the average punter? Not so sure.


Dave

I think in Scotland Blackpool has become the more prestigious and the better known for a variety of reasons. Even though those of us who go are all 'cerocers' many more make the trip to Blackpool than to London - even though it can be quicker and cheaper to fly to London.

The reaction from Blackpool over the last two years has been fantastic and the fact that Keith and Janey came to the Scottish Comp probably helped as well.

The fact that the Scots did pretty well at Blackpool and were able to be together and create an atmposhere - and actually see the whole event ...helped as well.

Up here there may be a few dancers and a possibly even a couple of the team cabarets that see the Scottish comp as the 'warm up' for Blackpool and won't be going to London. I know the venue is still a major issue with a lot of dancers up here so only a few will probably make the trip south in May.

[Dan Hudson]

I would like to come out in defence of Ceroc HQ on this.

Ceroc HQ have spent a lot of time looking at other venues in london that would be more suitable for the Champs, hence the reason for the late confirmation of the date.

Most of the venues were fully booked for this entire year and most of next. Some of the venues would not commit to a date unitl nearer the time. As you can appreciate this would leave Ceroc little or no time ot advertise and promote the event and indeed leave little or on time to prepare and make the event as good as the client base insists/expects.

As I said in my previous post, the cost implications on some London venues are astronomical and most just offer a bare basic room and everything else is an extra.

I am off to Blackpool this year and will be able to give a more balanced verdict on which event is 'best'

I do agree that last years champs was not brilliant and HQ are aware of that and i am sure this year you will se a marked imrovement. (apart from the same venue)

The new Ceroc Management have implemented some fantastic changes in the short time they have been in control and the champs will be improved, its just that these things don't happen overnight. I do not know for a fact but would imagine there are talks for venues for next years going on already.

So please make the effort to come to London for the champs, if only to dance with me!! Especially you Bill!!

take care

Dan

[David Franklin]

Originally posted by Bill
I think in Scotland Blackpool has become the more prestigious and the better known for a variety of reasons. Even though those of us who go are all 'cerocers' many more make the trip to Blackpool than to London - even though it can be quicker and cheaper to fly to London.

I'm kind of surprised that the Ceroc champs aren't still better known, even if people don't actually go. But maybe you don't get the saturation advertising that goes on down here. Back when I still went to Ceroc in London, the teachers would give a plug for the champs at literally every lesson for about the preceeding 2 months. However much you had reservations about the venue, you'd get worn down - it was like the Borg - "resistance is futile..."

The fact that the Scots did pretty well at Blackpool and were able to be together and create an atmposhere - and actually see the whole event ...helped as well.

See the competitors? What a revolutionary notion! Wouldn't you rather be packed in like sardines in a dark and smelly cave, and have to bob up and down hoping to see a glimpse of someones head? I'm not sure people like you should be allowed into a Ceroc venue with ideas like that!

Up here there may be a few dancers and a possibly even a couple of the team cabarets that see the Scottish comp as the 'warm up' for Blackpool and won't be going to London. I know the venue is still a major issue with a lot of dancers up here so only a few will probably make the trip south in May.

I can't say I blame you (about making the trip). I suspect fewer and fewer people will travel to the Ceroc champs - there are probably enough people relatively local who will keep going, but if you need to pay for travel/accommodation I can certainly think of better ways of spending a couple of hundred quid!

Dave

[Bill]

Originally posted by David Franklin
I'm kind of surprised that the Ceroc champs aren't still better known, even if people don't actually go. But maybe you don't get the saturation advertising that goes on down here. Dave

It is mentioned by the teachers but few dancers check the national website up here and most will get the info either if they are regulars on the forum or if they actually listen to the announcements at the end of the class.

Blackpool is mentioned of course during classes but details pass by word of mouth and far fewer folk, certainly in Aberdeen, have been to London than been to Blackpool. And it is the venue because we have to drive or get the train to Blackpool which can take 4 -5 hours from Aberdeen whereas we can fly to London in 1 hour ( but whole journey nearer 3 I suppose) and costs would actually be about the same.

[David Franklin]

Originally posted by Bill
Blackpool is mentioned of course during classes but details pass by word of mouth and far fewer folk, certainly in Aberdeen, have been to London than been to Blackpool. And it is the venue because we have to drive or get the train to Blackpool which can take 4 -5 hours from Aberdeen whereas we can fly to London in 1 hour ( but whole journey nearer 3 I suppose) and costs would actually be about the same.

Yeah, the big division in costs is whether you can reasonably drive home after the event. As DavidB says, Blackpool is worth spending the money, Hammersmith isn't

My point was that I think CerocHQ tend to look at it as "it's not bad value for 25 quid?", and don't recognize how different the cost equation is for people out of London. Until I went to Blackpool, I really hadn't appreciated how much the "other costs" mount up when you're travelling to a venue, so I suspect London based organizers don't always do so either.

Dave

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Dan Hudson
Ceroc HQ have spent a lot of time looking at other venues in london that would be more suitable for the Champs,

I'm sure they have, but we're still stuck on that London thing, as Davidb says, it's not worth the 5 mile journey (3 miles for me). Blackpool is well worth the extra cost as a competitor (though as Mrs Sheepman won't be there this year, maybe it's too much for spectators?)

LL suggested Windsor, I've never been, but I've heard that the Ceroc venue there is huge. Also surely almost any of the big London town halls would do the job better? eg Walthamstow, Hammersmith, Wandsworth, (but I suspect they'd be more expensive, and you wouldn't get so many spectators in - £££ )

Greg

[Debster]

Originally posted by Martin
Unless you are going to perform an "old" routine, it would not be ready then.

Not necessarily. We specifically chose to compete at the champs in May and started working on our routine in Nov/Dec so we did have it reasonably arranged by the time the video was required. We were planning to continue to practise and polish for that last part up to May. To try it out at Blackpool was an after thought.

I agree with David, the main problem Ceroc had was trying to avoid people pulling out at the last minute because they weren't ready.

Sorry did not catch your routine Debster - no reflection on your caberet.

Oh OK. Thanks. I won't be offended then

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Sheepman
I said right after the last one that I wouldn't go to Hammersmith again, so I'm with you on that one.

Trouble is, if it's on 2nd May, I'm already booked that evening, I suppose I could just make the reasonable assumption that I wouldn't make it to the finals anyway, so won't need to stay after 7pm!

It's happened, after 51 weeks of saying I wouldn't go back to that place, I've finally caved in, and I will be competing at this year's championships.
So there are 2 ways you can see this turnaround:-

1). I'm a spineless, weasel minded toe rag, whose word is less reliable than a plumbers estimate!

2). I'm the errant knight, destined to help out a fair maiden!

I prefer to believe in destiny! Look forward to seeing you all there. (Apart, that is, from those who have more resolve than me!)

Greg

[RobC]

Originally posted by Sheepman
It's happened, after 51 weeks of saying I wouldn't go back to that place, I've finally caved in, and I will be competing at this year's championships.
So there are 2 ways you can see this turnaround:-

1). I'm a spineless, weasel minded toe rag, whose word is less reliable than a plumbers estimate!

Well I'm still firm in my resolve - you won't see me back at the Ceroc Champs until they move venue.

[stewart38]

IT always amazes me how so many cerocers expect something for nothing

Windsor is just a large sports hall and Hammersmith Town hall is used but wouldn't for champs

People moan if they have to spend £10 for a saturday night out and demand 'free water'

My company pay £250 a head for a large do would cerocers pay that ?Then we can go to the Albert Hall

If people dont want to go on sunday thats good as its more room for me !

Last yr champs were great it was crowded but so many events are.

I assume the queueing and other 'things' will be resolved this yr

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by RobC
you won't see me back at the Ceroc Champs until they move venue.

Couldn't you even be persuaded by a gorgeous lady who's a fab dancer, or even a man in a pink tutu?
Greg

[RobC]

Originally posted by Sheepman
Couldn't you even be persuaded by a gorgeous lady who's a fab dancer, or even a man in a pink tutu?
Greg

After our success at Blackpool last year, Andy finally wore me down and I agreed to go back to the Palais after several years of giving it a miss - and it only served as a bitter reminder of why I don't go there anymore. I won't make that mistake again !!

I would quite happily enter any other competition with a gorgeous lady (or even Andy) - Bristol and BritRoc aren't that far off....... any offers ?

[Jayne]

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon here too...

Originally posted by stewart38
Windsor is just a large sports hall and Hammersmith Town hall is used but wouldn't for champs

Not sure what your point is here (i fear it would become clearer with punctuation though).

People moan if they have to spend £10 for a saturday night out and demand 'free water'

It's not a demand - it's required by law AFAIK.

My company pay £250 a head for a large do would cerocers pay that ?Then we can go to the Albert Hall

yes. Blackpool cost in excess of £300 for me.

Last yr champs were great it was crowded but so many events are.

I think there are few people who thought that Blackpool was overcrowded. Besides which, organisers can determine the maximum number of people allowed at an event. Just because other events are overcrowded doesn't mean that *all* organisers have to treat their customers with the same contempt.

I assume the queueing and other 'things' will be resolved this yr [/B]

That's what we're all hoping! Many people have decided to give the ceroc champs one last chance this year (myself included).

J

[ericklondon]

I assume the queueing and other 'things' will be resolved this yr [/B]

We are trying as best as we can to sort out all the minor problems we had last year.
As regards to the queueing at the door, the event will open its doors at 10am, EVERYONE will have to be searched this is due to the guidelines issued by the police and the home office following terrorist threats that the CLUB has to implement. All London venues holding public events have to follow those guidelines REGARDLESS of the event.
There's nothing we can do about it.
See latest news on www.cerochamps.com

Jayne,
as regards to free water.... I revert you to my previous comments about water in a very old thread.
Free running water has to be made available free BUT not bottled water this is up to the club owners what they do and profit margins are huge on bottled water.

The law definition on supplying water in clubs is quite specific and a CLEAR difference is made betwen running water - ie: out of a tap - which should be provided free of charge and bottled water - ie from a natural source, unless it's that bloody rubbish from Coca Cola !!.

As you can imagine, we all working very hard on this Champs to make sure that everyone has a fantastic day out... BUT there's always a minority who will find something to moan about !!

See you all on Sunday

Erick

[Peter]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bradders
The floor is scrubbed and washed after the School Disco.
(Lots of drunk people partially dress in school uniforms, apparently it is a real meat market... but I have never been!!!) The cleaners come in at about 3.30am. I will request that the floor gets buffed. I am sure they have the appropriate equipment.
(Also have to ensure it does not end up like an ice rink after buffing).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Erick - can you reassure us that the dance floor WILL be buffed and in good condition?

[ericklondon]

Peter,

At our last meeting at the Palais, Dave also had a meeting with the cleaning contrators and explained to them how important it was for the floor to be in perfect condition.
I trust this will be sorted.

I do understand your concerns and there is nothing worse than dancing on a floor that feels like an ice rink.. Ceroc or not....

I am going there this afternoon and will check it out.
Hope this helps

See you on Sunday

Erick

[Dave Hancock]

Erick,

My concern of the floor and I think that which many others have is not that it will be like an ice rink, to be honest I'd be amazed if it was even semi-quick, but that it will be really slow, due to booze etc, being spilled on it on the Saturday night and thus the need for it cleaned and buffed to speed it up.

[ericklondon]

Dave,

I certainly understand your concerns and I have just spoken to Dave who assured me that he has spoken to the cleaning contractors and REQUESTED that the floor is cleaned and buffed up so that it meets our standards.

In previous years.... they just walked around the floor with a nasty looking mop !!!

Hope this helps.

See you on Sunday

Erick