New computer - desktop PC, laptop or Mac?

[Lynn]

My Windows laptop is over 5 years old and either needs a decent upgrade (its got 1GB RAM and Windows XP etc) or its time to just move to a new machine.

Looking at options I want to include Mac into the shortlist. Not a MacBook Pro as they are just too expensive, and I'd want a sep keyboard and monitor anyway, but maybe an iMac.

I'll be using it for photoediting, surfing, some word processing etc. Will be running LR4 and poss Photoshop (when I can afford it!). I have no clue about Macs at all so that plus price is a good reason to stay PC but maybe now is a good time to change...

So - stay PC or go Mac?

[philsmove]

I had to make the same decision about a year ago
I stayed with a PC for 4 reasons
A Mac was more expensive than the equivalent Dell PC ( I bought a Precision T7500)
Some, not all, of my software was not cross platform, so buying new Mac software would be even more expense
A program I was thinking of using for future project, would not run on a mac
I would have to learn a new operating system

If you want run LR4 and CS5 together you need not less than 8 GB RAM, I use 12 but 24 would be better

[Lynn]

I was running CS5 and LR3 on 1GB RAM - but the CS5 was just a trial version and it expired - it wasn't the fastest but it ran ok. LR3 is sometimes a bit sluggish, other times its ok, but it does run into problems when exporting from the raw file to jpeg - more than about 5 at a time and it overheats and shuts down!

Mac is more expensive - but I don't mind paying a bit more if I can justify it.
I need new software anyway. Though I'd need something that would read Word files as have a lot of those.
I'm going to have a look at some to see what I think of the OS and how easy it would be to pick up...

May stay PC - not decided yet!

[philsmove]

I was running CS5 and LR3 on 1GB RAM - but the CS5 was just a trial version and it expired - it wasn't the fastest but it ran ok. LR3 is sometimes a bit sluggish, other times its ok, but it does run into problems when exporting from the raw file to jpeg - more than about 5 at a time and it overheats and shuts down!

Pretty much my experience
If you have 1000+ images from a shoot to edit, 12 GB of RAM means you can get the job done in a sensible amount of time

overheating, on a laptop, can be reduced if you sit it on a fan base

[CheesyRobMan]

I think I said this to you in person, but if you decide to stick with PC, get the very best motherboard/CPU/RAM combination you can afford, and a nice powerful PSU. Everything else is pretty optional, except possibly a big high-resolution monitor if you're doing lots of photo editing. My desktop has an Intel i5 2500K CPU which does its own on-board graphics, and even fairly demanding games run just fine on it with no separate graphics card installed.

[cederic]

Hmm. If you plan on gaming, get a dedicated 3d graphics card. Especially if you buy a laptop. If you're not planning on gaming, onboard graphics is fine.

Don't neglect your hard disk. There are two types these days:
- solid state (known as SSDs). These are very expensive but are very fast
- spinning disks (sometimes referred to as 'spindle' drives). These vary wildly in price, and a lot of computer manufacturers put cheap ones in to keep total system cost down.

The problem with a cheap hard drive is that almost everything you do on a PC (or Mac) accesses the hard drive. A cheap one will be slow to respond, which means it will take longer to boot up, take longer to load applications, and take longer to do things like loading pictures into LR/PS.

So my current laptop has two
- one very fast SSD hosting Windows and applications, so that they load fast
- one large 7200rpm spindle drive which stores all my data

Ideally I'd have used SSDs throughout but that would've added around £800 to the cost of the system.

But trust me, spending a lot of money on a fancy new computer with its whizzie graphics and state of the art CPU and masses of RAM leaves you really frustrated when you're waiting several seconds for the hard disk to provide the data needed to fill that RAM. Just do the maths: A 7200rpm drive with a sustained read rate of around 1Gbit/s will take a whole minute to read 8 Gigabytes of data. That's not a directly valid comparison (for many reasons) but highlights the impact hard disks can have.

But PC or Mac? Which one do you know how to use, do you already own software for, will support the software you plan to acquire in the future? If it's still a dead heat after that, which gives the best return? Macs more than a couple of months after their initial release date tend to cost more than an equivalent spec PC, but also tend to have higher resale value. Do you ever sell your old computers? Don't compare cheap build PCs with cheap components against Macs, make sure it's a like-for-like comparison. Factor in screen size, resolution, viewing angle. Do you absolutely need multitouch on your trackpad (if you buy a laptop) or do you disable them anyway (like me). Do you want to support a company that has higher profit margins than any of their competitors, and that seeks to lock down and control the systems it sells?

Above all, are you a pretentious twat with a superiority complex that absolutely must demonstrate their individuality by buying a fashionable brand? Note that answering this requires a level of self-awareness many people lack; as a quick and easy check look in your handbag/pocket: Is there an iPhone?

(ok, ignore that last one )

[David Franklin]

I think I said this to you in person, but if you decide to stick with PC, get the very best motherboard/CPU/RAM combination you can afford, and a nice powerful PSU. Everything else is pretty optional, except possibly a big high-resolution monitor if you're doing lots of photo editing. My desktop has an Intel i5 2500K CPU which does its own on-board graphics, and even fairly demanding games run just fine on it with no separate graphics card installed.

Opinions on what defines "fairly demanding games" will vary, but in absolute terms the i5 GPU is pretty weak. Tomshardware ranks it roughly equal to a Nvidia 9400GT; for comparison the "midrange" Nvidia 460GT costs around £100 and has a fill rate 9 times higher.

On t'other hand, doesn't sound like Lynn will be playing a lot of games; I know Photoshop (and the other Adobe products) has some level of GPU acceleration but I don't think it's particularly worth worrying about GPU performance on that basis. For Photoshop I suspect a 2600K will be a decent upgrade over a 2500K, and the price differential isn't much.

My understanding is Photoshop et al. are pretty memory hungry, so it would probably be worth getting 16GB of RAM (it's only £50 quid or so), although I work professionally with 4K film and have managed fine on less than half that (but custom software, so mileage may vary).

The other thing I'd say is that the only real reason to worry about the PSU is if you're planning to put a high end GPU in the machine. The latest Intel chips really don't use much power, and any decent PSU will be fine.

I agree with Cederic; if you have the spare money, an SSD for the OS and the actual image software will be a very nice speed boost for day-to-day use. Be aware that it won't speed things up if you, say, need to unsharp mask 2000 images. But your machine will boot faster and your apps will start a lot more quickly.

[straycat]

So - stay PC or go Mac?

I vote Mac. I use a PC at work (Windows 7), and a plethora of OSX machines at home, and it's such a pleasure to come back to the Mac each time.

If in doubt, find a Mac-based friend, and spend a few hours with one so you know what you're getting into.

[Lynn]

Thanks - something else I didn't know! I'll decide if 8/16 then and just go with that.

[philsmove]

same thing being discussed on NR
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=5270

[Lynn]

Thanks Phil - seems the same discussions - some love their Macs, some love their PCs... bit like Canon vs Nikon.

Speaking of Nikon - D800 is currently £2,099 on Amazon... only £300 more than a D700 recent price...?

[Lynn]

Speaking of Nikon - D800 is currently £2,099 on Amazon... only £300 more than a D700 recent price...?

Wonder if they will honour pre-orders at that price... now £2599.

[philsmove]

Wonder if they will honour pre-orders at that price... now £2599.

Calumet have confirmed, when I get my D800, it will be at the price I ordered it at

Lynn did you order yours @ £2,099

[frodo]

My Windows laptop is over 5 years old and either needs a decent upgrade (its got 1GB RAM and Windows XP etc) or its time to just move to a new machine.

...

I'll be using it for photoediting, surfing, some word processing etc. Will be running LR4 and poss Photoshop (when I can afford it!). I have no clue about Macs at all so that plus price is a good reason to stay PC but maybe now is a good time to change...

Putting 8gb of RAM in a dual core 11.6 in notebook is something of sweet spot in the PC world.

It avoids the main limitations of netbooks for not much more money or weight.

Couple that with a low cost 24in LED HDMI monitor and you have a cheap and effective solution for most tasks.


Even if an iMac is bought later (I don't see any point in buying anything less than the 27in version), a lightweight notebook is useful in the long term.

As the replacement cost is a fraction of a Macbook it is far more suitable for carrying around, and spare power supplies, replacement screens etc. are cheap.

[Dreadful Scathe]

The problem with the Prime is, first the lack of apps, and those apps, then to assume that you will be using a keyboard (or they're just blown up phone apps).

Not true in my experience. Although unlike iTunes it is hard to see in "market"/"play store" if an app doesn't scale to a tablet well, but the scale up button works fine (unlike earlier android versions). Honeycomb is perfect for a tablet and android has no shortage of apps in any areas i have been interested in. I've not noticed the keyboard assumption, if Asus's own apps do this, its elementary to use a different keyboard (i expect most people do, android has lots of quality on-screen keyboard replacements, that include cursor keys (a must) and arrangements for thumbs only, or slide writing or intelligent predicative etc...).

Also honeycomb will switch off all soft keyboards if a USB keyboard is plugged in. My tablet (a £200 advent vega from pcworld) has honeycomb on it (using a quality smaller £14 keyboard) and is effectively my laptop now as it does everything i need it to do. I was using a 3gs dongle (£12 from ebay) for internet access when there was no wi-fi but its much easier to tether to my phone now. I do prefer the iPad2's screen sensitivity (both capacitive but iPad is much better), quality (build and viewing angle) and screen ratio (magazine format is just better) but its lack of ports, inability to install anything you like, less customisable interface and doubling of the price make it hard to justify. Battery life on my Vega is about 8 hours so there's not much in that either.

And of course with android you get Amazon free apps of the day, the best music player ever in Google Music, and Google Books (both with automatic syncing). Personally I prefer honeycomb to iOS, but I prefer the Ipad2 screen over any other I have seen so if I WAS spending £400 or so all the little things that the iPad2 does better would probably clinch it for me over an Asus (or an Acer which has sucky windows and the stupidest lethal keyboard hinge thing ever). Though i note the 16gb iPad2 is £329 now (why would anyone pay £100 more for 3g ... unless they don't have a phone to tether to)

[Franck]

Which is why I shall be off to John Lewis on the 16th

An ipad is an output device for showing off your amazing photographs

A big workstation, with the lots of RAM, dual thingy what nots, plenty Tetra bites of Hard Drive and the biggest highest specification Monitor you can lay your hands on, is an input device, used for post production of your NEF files using LR4

... but as ever one man meat .......

Oooh, John Lewis, good idea, I was thinking of camping outside the Apple Store in Glasgow.
As for the workstation thing, definitely, I love my 27' iMac, and would definitely use that over an iPad when at home, but when on the road, the iPad wins every time, over the iPhone or my Macbook Air... The sheer convenience of an always on, light, fast, unplugged, touchy-feely computer cannot be beaten, whether in a café, pub or restaurant, or on the couch or in bed!

Not true in my experience. Although unlike iTunes it is hard to see in "market"/"play store" if an app doesn't scale to a tablet well, but the scale up button works fine (unlike earlier android versions). Honeycomb is perfect for a tablet and android has no shortage of apps in any areas i have been interested in. I've not noticed the keyboard assumption, if Asus's own apps do this, its elementary to use a different keyboard (i expect most people do, android has lots of quality on-screen keyboard replacements, that include cursor keys (a must) and arrangements for thumbs only, or slide writing or intelligent predicative etc...).

That's not what I meant, I'm sure the scaling works just fine (though it can be quite ugly), but for the iPad, the apps have been redesigned to use the extra screen space, so you don't get huge gaps, and a much better user interface for most apps. I have attached a couple of examples showing the difference with Twitter and Yelp, the differences in aesthetics and usability are huge. As I said earlier, iOS has so many apps, but not just in quantity, the quality of the apps is so much higher, with a broader and deeper range.

Also honeycomb will switch off all soft keyboards if a USB keyboard is plugged in. My tablet (a £200 advent vega from pcworld) has honeycomb on it (using a quality smaller £14 keyboard) and is effectively my laptop now as it does everything i need it to do. I was using a 3gs dongle (£12 from ebay) for internet access when there was no wi-fi but its much easier to tether to my phone now. I do prefer the iPad2's screen sensitivity (both capacitive but iPad is much better), quality (build and viewing angle) and screen ratio (magazine format is just better) but its lack of ports, inability to install anything you like, less customisable interface and doubling of the price make it hard to justify. Battery life on my Vega is about 8 hours so there's not much in that either.

I use a mifi (3G dongle) and yes, the iPad is a bit more expensive, though with the latest reduction, the extra £100 for the iPad is definitely worth it, for the reasons you list above. As for battery life, it's so good, that you don't notice it ever, I use mine over days, occasionally charging it, and have never run out. For an always on device, with no cables, great battery life is a big deal.

[philsmove]

The sheer convenience of an always on, light, fast, unplugged, touchy-feely computer cannot be beaten, whether in a café, pub or restaurant, or on the couch or in bed!
.

interesting point

I suppose I am a bit odd

I go to the Cafe, for coffee
The Pub, for a beer
A restaurant, to eat
My bed, to sleep and .......well not to play with my iPad

[Franck]

interesting point

I suppose I am a bit odd

I go to the Cafe, for coffee
The Pub, for a beer
A restaurant, to eat
My bed, to sleep and .......well not to play with my iPad

Same for me, but then again, where would you go to use your iPad?
When I want to check my mail / news, browse the web, edit / write a document or spreadsheet, I have a choice of places where I can do it, I'm not limited to an office desk and a large computer...

[Franck]

I just saw this article today, and it might answer your questions about whether you should get an iPad or a MacBook air.

http://gigaom.com/apple/how-an-advan...aOM%3A+Tech%29

I only skimmed it but hope it helps.

[Lynn]

Phil - thanks for sharing your workflow. I was thinking of a 2TB external HD for Time Machine and then another (prob 1TB) for back ups I want to keep long term and to store offsite/in fire safe. But need to sort it all out and decide which external HDs to buy.

Franck - thanks - though that guy is doing different things with images and processing than I would be - still need to think that one through but in no hurry at the mo.